Nigel Calder says to run the same 'pink' stuff thru the engine to winterize it that we run thru the water system. The label on the container says "Not for use in engines." What does everybody else do? Does the water in the aqua muffler need to be drained? If so, when starting the engine in the spring, will it fill back up by itself (during the start sequence) or does it need to be refilled? Thanks.
Engine Winterization
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Warren Milberg
Winterizing
You have two choices to winterize: (1) run your engine, close the raw water intake seacock, and pump all the raw water out of that side of the engine (including the muffler); or (2) do what most of us do: put the water pump hose in a bucket of antifreeze and suck it up into the system with the engine running -- shut the engine off when the antifreeze comes out the exhaust. If you get all the water out of your system, or put antifreeze in it, you don't have to worry about your water lift muffler one way or the other. The choice of which antifreeze to use is a personal one. The green stuff costs more but protects better than the cheaper pink stuff. All depends on how cold it gets where you are and whether the additional $5 or so the green stuff costs gives you more piece of mind or not. FWIW, a frozen engine can cost $10k.....
You have two choices to winterize: (1) run your engine, close the raw water intake seacock, and pump all the raw water out of that side of the engine (including the muffler); or (2) do what most of us do: put the water pump hose in a bucket of antifreeze and suck it up into the system with the engine running -- shut the engine off when the antifreeze comes out the exhaust. If you get all the water out of your system, or put antifreeze in it, you don't have to worry about your water lift muffler one way or the other. The choice of which antifreeze to use is a personal one. The green stuff costs more but protects better than the cheaper pink stuff. All depends on how cold it gets where you are and whether the additional $5 or so the green stuff costs gives you more piece of mind or not. FWIW, a frozen engine can cost $10k.....
Bert: Recommend you stay away from identifying antifreeze by its color. If you use the terms "automotive/marine engine antifreeze", and "RV antifreeze" you will stay away from any confusion caused by misidentifying the antifreeze because of its color. For fresh-water-cooled diesel engines, the RAW-WATER side must be drained of raw water, and replaced for the winter by RV-type antifreeze. I understand that the higher the advertised protection, the more the anti-corrosives that are contained in it. For the FRESH WATER side of the engine, Yanmar now tells you to use pre-mixed and pre-diluted (50/50) extended-life engine antifreeze. It can be left in all winter, and since it is extended-use antifreeze, probably can be used for several seasons. If you have already got an extended life, premixed Engine antifreeze in your fresh water side of a fresh water cooled diesel, leave it alone for the winter. But always drain the raw water side and protect it with an RV type of antifreeze (of whatever color).
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Randall
Engine
The "not for use in engines" means not inside the engine. Your engine should already have antifreeze in it, so you don't have to do anything to that side. The raw water side does need to be winterized, and Warren's post covered that well, especially his second suggestion. If you build a "T" into your raw water intake hose, this process is very easy. Once you see antifreeze coming out of your exhaust, your muffler has been winterized and doesn't need to be drained.
The "not for use in engines" means not inside the engine. Your engine should already have antifreeze in it, so you don't have to do anything to that side. The raw water side does need to be winterized, and Warren's post covered that well, especially his second suggestion. If you build a "T" into your raw water intake hose, this process is very easy. Once you see antifreeze coming out of your exhaust, your muffler has been winterized and doesn't need to be drained.
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Don
Pre-mixed???
When and who at Yanmar started recommending pre-mixed antifreeze? I know it's a good idea to use the extended life no silicate type glycol (in the cooling side) but what's the added benefit of getting it pre-mixed? Also, I believe it (silicate-free glycol) comes in orange color only so color can be a good indicator. It would be more fun to not have to even think about this stuff - our brethern on SoCal, Fl, etc are laughing at us now... Don
When and who at Yanmar started recommending pre-mixed antifreeze? I know it's a good idea to use the extended life no silicate type glycol (in the cooling side) but what's the added benefit of getting it pre-mixed? Also, I believe it (silicate-free glycol) comes in orange color only so color can be a good indicator. It would be more fun to not have to even think about this stuff - our brethern on SoCal, Fl, etc are laughing at us now... Don
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Terry
RV Antifreeze
Randall is correct, the do not use in engine means don't use it as your cooling antifreeze on the engine side of the exchanger. It is meant to protect against freezing and not as a cooling product. Just suck it in the fresh water intake until it runs out the exhaust. My Yanmar 2GM20 uses approx. 2 gals to protect exchanger, muffler and lines. Sail On... Terry
Randall is correct, the do not use in engine means don't use it as your cooling antifreeze on the engine side of the exchanger. It is meant to protect against freezing and not as a cooling product. Just suck it in the fresh water intake until it runs out the exhaust. My Yanmar 2GM20 uses approx. 2 gals to protect exchanger, muffler and lines. Sail On... Terry
Here's another way to look at it
There are two coolant systems in a raw water cooled engine. The fresh water section, which is like your car engine, which is closed and has permanent ethylene glycol coolant (yellow/green) which is toxic. It should be changed every 3-5 years. This circulates through the engine block and to/from the water heater to heat the potable water. The other system is the raw water system, which uses the impeller to draw water via a thru hull fitting, thru the heat exchanger, and thru the muffler and out with the exhaust. This is where the "pink stuff" (i.e. propylene glycol) is used to winterize as described by Warren above. It's non-toxic, so it can be pumped onto the ground or into the water without a problem. It's also fairly inexpensive, so you can winterize the engine and all the potable water and sanitation systems and drains with about 3-5 gallons for about $10. One more thing - the pink stuff has a rating of -50 degrees F (I think). There's also a non-toxic purple which is rated at -100 degrees F, although I don't know what purpose that serves. Hope this helps.
There are two coolant systems in a raw water cooled engine. The fresh water section, which is like your car engine, which is closed and has permanent ethylene glycol coolant (yellow/green) which is toxic. It should be changed every 3-5 years. This circulates through the engine block and to/from the water heater to heat the potable water. The other system is the raw water system, which uses the impeller to draw water via a thru hull fitting, thru the heat exchanger, and thru the muffler and out with the exhaust. This is where the "pink stuff" (i.e. propylene glycol) is used to winterize as described by Warren above. It's non-toxic, so it can be pumped onto the ground or into the water without a problem. It's also fairly inexpensive, so you can winterize the engine and all the potable water and sanitation systems and drains with about 3-5 gallons for about $10. One more thing - the pink stuff has a rating of -50 degrees F (I think). There's also a non-toxic purple which is rated at -100 degrees F, although I don't know what purpose that serves. Hope this helps.
pink, purple and green
Ed is right, up to explaining the propylene glycol types. As carried by WM and BoatUS, the pink stuff is -50 and is used undiluted for water systems like holding tanks, heads, drinking water, water heaters - in short, all the non-engine water lines and tanks. The purple stuff is -60 and has "triple the corrosion inhibitors". Its preferrable for engine systems and costs about $1 per gallon more. Its okay to use the pink stuff for everything, but the purple is only for engine systems. Again, undiluted. The green stuff is -100, significantly more expensive and can be diluted up to half. Its often used for more complete protection, or for areas where dilution is expected, like in adding to tanks where some residual water will thin it. I use it in my bilge, which has a deep keel well; any bilgewater will dilute it during the winter. Its my understanding that -50 and -60 doesn't actually keep lines liquid, but does prevent expansion in very cold months. So the indicated temperatures are not taken literally, but only indicate a degree of protection. The back of the bottle explains it. One last word: for those using bubblers and engine room heaters, remember that winter storms and extreme cold are when interruptions in electricity are most common, so don't forget to monitor your protection systems at such times.
Ed is right, up to explaining the propylene glycol types. As carried by WM and BoatUS, the pink stuff is -50 and is used undiluted for water systems like holding tanks, heads, drinking water, water heaters - in short, all the non-engine water lines and tanks. The purple stuff is -60 and has "triple the corrosion inhibitors". Its preferrable for engine systems and costs about $1 per gallon more. Its okay to use the pink stuff for everything, but the purple is only for engine systems. Again, undiluted. The green stuff is -100, significantly more expensive and can be diluted up to half. Its often used for more complete protection, or for areas where dilution is expected, like in adding to tanks where some residual water will thin it. I use it in my bilge, which has a deep keel well; any bilgewater will dilute it during the winter. Its my understanding that -50 and -60 doesn't actually keep lines liquid, but does prevent expansion in very cold months. So the indicated temperatures are not taken literally, but only indicate a degree of protection. The back of the bottle explains it. One last word: for those using bubblers and engine room heaters, remember that winter storms and extreme cold are when interruptions in electricity are most common, so don't forget to monitor your protection systems at such times.
Don't mean to go all tree-huggerly on you, but
I'm just wondering how safe/unsafe is this stuff to the endangered little northern spotted snail farter. I imagine the stuff marked safe for the water tanks oughta be fine fer fishes too, but how about the automotive stuff that gets drank by, and kills, billions of dogs every day? Are there laws?
I'm just wondering how safe/unsafe is this stuff to the endangered little northern spotted snail farter. I imagine the stuff marked safe for the water tanks oughta be fine fer fishes too, but how about the automotive stuff that gets drank by, and kills, billions of dogs every day? Are there laws?
2 Gallons of Camco Banfrost 2000 for Engine
I'd suggest using the 'deep pink' 'Camco Banfrost 2000' to winterize an engine's 'raw water' system (regardless of whether it's a FWC or raw-water cooled engine). It is a propolyene 'glycol' with additives to protect the metals of the engine -- it is also environmentally safe to use. By contrast, albeit also 'pink', 'Camco Freeze Ban -50' is for water systems. It is only propolyene based, and IS NOT for engines. 1. Drain water lift muffler completely (this assures pure anti-freeze throughout and makes seeing 'pink' out the exhaust easy as well as reduces the chance of the engine injesting anti-freeze). 2. Dry out bilge 3. Remove from strainer and place the raw-water intake hose in a 2+ gallon container filled with 2 gallons of Camco Banfrost 2000. 4. start engine and assure anti-freeze is being sucked into the hose. 5. Shutoff Engine -- when either pink exits the exhaust or container is ALMOST empty. 6. drain water-lift muffler again, suggest allowing it to drain into bilge to protect it (this reduces moisture vapor drifting into the engine during the winter). And yes, it will naturally fill back-up in the spring when started, so no need to do anything. This is what I have done for 13 years on my Catalina 30 with a Universal 23 hp M25xp (fresh-water cooled, with heat-exchanger through which runs 'raw' water to cool the fresh water/anti-freeze solution -- just like a car's radiator uses air to cool the fresh-water which contains ethylene-glycol based anti-freeze). 7. Remove raw-water impellor, clean and leave out to un-set (or re-install with some water-pump grease or vaseline and new gasket). This has become a requirement as propolyene attacks the rubber. Hope this helps...
I'd suggest using the 'deep pink' 'Camco Banfrost 2000' to winterize an engine's 'raw water' system (regardless of whether it's a FWC or raw-water cooled engine). It is a propolyene 'glycol' with additives to protect the metals of the engine -- it is also environmentally safe to use. By contrast, albeit also 'pink', 'Camco Freeze Ban -50' is for water systems. It is only propolyene based, and IS NOT for engines. 1. Drain water lift muffler completely (this assures pure anti-freeze throughout and makes seeing 'pink' out the exhaust easy as well as reduces the chance of the engine injesting anti-freeze). 2. Dry out bilge 3. Remove from strainer and place the raw-water intake hose in a 2+ gallon container filled with 2 gallons of Camco Banfrost 2000. 4. start engine and assure anti-freeze is being sucked into the hose. 5. Shutoff Engine -- when either pink exits the exhaust or container is ALMOST empty. 6. drain water-lift muffler again, suggest allowing it to drain into bilge to protect it (this reduces moisture vapor drifting into the engine during the winter). And yes, it will naturally fill back-up in the spring when started, so no need to do anything. This is what I have done for 13 years on my Catalina 30 with a Universal 23 hp M25xp (fresh-water cooled, with heat-exchanger through which runs 'raw' water to cool the fresh water/anti-freeze solution -- just like a car's radiator uses air to cool the fresh-water which contains ethylene-glycol based anti-freeze). 7. Remove raw-water impellor, clean and leave out to un-set (or re-install with some water-pump grease or vaseline and new gasket). This has become a requirement as propolyene attacks the rubber. Hope this helps...
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