engine oil - grey emulsion

imbissfrank · Aug 7, 2013

That is exactly what happened to me, water in the oil, but once it looked like peanut-butter, very thickMSG Frank Gallardo Jr.
Casualty Assistance Officer
Berlin Military Community
U.S. Army Special Forces Retired

________________________________
From: Marcin Palacz palacz@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 5:39 PM
Subject: [AlbinVega] engine oil - grey emulsion

Hi,

Today, when I checked the oil level in my MD6A,
it looked like a grey emulsion.
The day before it looked perfect, and it actually
was changed very recently.

I assume this emulsion likely means water in the oil.
Is that correct ?

Yesterday I had three not so typical situations:

- The engine was abruptly set to full backward,
when a rope catched the lever in the cockpit
(and I was busy with the sail close to the mast).
After some seconds, maybe a minute, the engine stopped by itself.
It did not want to start in the beginning,
but after a few minutes it was back to normal.

- I had to run the engine at almost full speed backward for a minute,
to get out of a rock.

- I was sailing for a few hours with large heels, 30 degrees,
and rather big waves. The engine was of course stopped.

Could any of this situation be related to the problem?

If it is water in the engine, could it come via the exhaust?
It is not a typical Vega "dry" exhaust.
Water mixes with exhaust gases rather close to the engine.
See the photo:

http://www.albinvega.pl/wp-content/gallery/techniczne/lotta_exhaust.jpg

Perhaps it is a bad design?
I use however this setup for seven years now, with no problem so far.

I've changed today the oil, and then had to run the engine for 1 hour,
It worked normally. The oil looks gold-fresh.
I am anyway going to change the oil again as soon as I get new oil,
i.e. probably in the next harbour.

Any ideas?

I am now cruising Swedish Baltic archipelagos,
still quite far away from home, which is on the other
side of Baltic, close to Gda?sk.

Cheers,

Marcin
V1958 "Lotta"

stevebirch2002 · Aug 7, 2013

Hi

Would suggest you change the oil as soon as possible, see what it is like after that.

Cheers

Steve BFrom: Marcin Palacz
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 4:39 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] engine oil - grey emulsion
Hi,

Today, when I checked the oil level in my MD6A,
it looked like a grey emulsion.
The day before it looked perfect, and it actually
was changed very recently.

I assume this emulsion likely means water in the oil.
Is that correct ?

Yesterday I had three not so typical situations:

- The engine was abruptly set to full backward,
when a rope catched the lever in the cockpit
(and I was busy with the sail close to the mast).
After some seconds, maybe a minute, the engine stopped by itself.
It did not want to start in the beginning,
but after a few minutes it was back to normal.

- I had to run the engine at almost full speed backward for a minute,
to get out of a rock.

- I was sailing for a few hours with large heels, 30 degrees,
and rather big waves. The engine was of course stopped.

Could any of this situation be related to the problem?

If it is water in the engine, could it come via the exhaust?
It is not a typical Vega "dry" exhaust.
Water mixes with exhaust gases rather close to the engine.
See the photo:

http://www.albinvega.pl/wp-content/gallery/techniczne/lotta_exhaust.jpg

Perhaps it is a bad design?
I use however this setup for seven years now, with no problem so far.

I've changed today the oil, and then had to run the engine for 1 hour,
It worked normally. The oil looks gold-fresh.
I am anyway going to change the oil again as soon as I get new oil,
i.e. probably in the next harbour.

Any ideas?

I am now cruising Swedish Baltic archipelagos,
still quite far away from home, which is on the other
side of Baltic, close to Gda?sk.

Cheers,

Marcin
V1958 "Lotta"

dougpol1 · Aug 7, 2013

Your problem may well be that water is leaking forward into the gear case that the water pump is mounted in. If the pump seal goes bad this can happen. I don't think it is coming from the exhaust as it would have to come back through the cylinders and this would likely lock up the engine on the compression stroke as water cannot be compressed. I would check the water pump first. Some of these small Volvo engines at one time were known to have this problem but I am not sure what model it was. Doug Douglas Pollard Dougpol2@...On Wed, 7 Aug 2013 18:54:18 +0100
"steve@..." steve@... wrote:

Vega1447 · Aug 7, 2013

Possible leaks at the seawater pump seal were it meets the block.
Another possible suspect would be if you have an seawater cooled oil cooler
heat exchanger.
If the seawater came in through the exhaust, then you would have a
hydrolock of the cylinder and you would not be able to turn over the engine
unless you used the pressure release valves to initiate cranking.
It might take 3 oil changes to eliminate the water from the engine lube oil.

dougpol1 · Aug 7, 2013

It looks from the picture that you have a fresh water cooling system. Note the standpipe on the right side of the engine with a radiator cap on top. Is this an oil cooler as Peter said it could leaking water into the oil. ??

DougDouglas Pollard Dougpol2@...

OngWed, 7 Aug 2013 15:50:10 -0400
Peter Carrico carrico@... wrote:

groundhogyh · Aug 7, 2013

If you do need a new water pump, see those random notes i posted here a few weeks ago. There is a new pump part number. And you need two metal pieces to hold the base to the MD6A.

vega2083 · Aug 7, 2013

the propeller shaft is in the tube, which is connected to the seawater, between them there is only few rubber rings, which maybe weared out.

If you area going to keep the propeller and it's shaft and the tube, you need to change the rubber rings.

The propeller shaft with it's tube may leak seawater in to the boat, and maybe a little bit to gearbox, where the shaft ends. The gearbox is connected to the engine's oil compartment, where the seawater may end.

In the upper area of the engine is the valve compartment, beside it is a box, where the incoming air goes to the cylinder. Incoming air is cooled by the cooling water before the air enters the cylinder, it may be that water is leaked to the cylinder by this way and there it finally ends in to the oil compartment. You shoud check this box beside the valve compartment.

Ofcourse it may be that it is the cylinder compartment that leaks water in to the oil compartment, but then you would have lot's of water there.

You need to take the engine out of the boat, and check and repair it totally, you should not tolerate oil mixed with the water and it will make oil and water entering lower areas of the boat, entering area under the diesel tank, cleaning it requires lot of work.

Ray

dougpol1 · Aug 8, 2013

I am looking at a drawing of the shaft and all parts as well as the combi. If the space between the shaft and tube is full of grease but water got into the combi housing it would have to get past the seal at the back of the engine. An engine with any age at all would have some crankcase pressure due to blow by coming past the piston rings. The water would have to be under pressure as I see it to get in there. I don't think it can reasonably happen. Seems to me that water would have to get past the seals in the water pump. I assume you are using the raw water pump to bring in salt water to cool your engine water. What kind of fresh water cooling pump do you have to circulate engine water? I am thinking if the main sheet pulled the shift lever full in reverse the blades would have been set to for and aft for sailing. They would act like paddles and possibly over heat your engine trying to turn them at top speed but unable to. If the engine was hot and cooled it might have draw a suction in the crankcase maybe this pulled water through a seal or gasket from the cooling system. This seems very unlikely but other than this I am at a loss.

I had a freeze plug on an Izuzu engine developed a pin hole in it and squirted water into the air intake but it only leaked when the cooling water was under pressure. Drove me nuts. I don't think that's your problem.

Oh! Have you replaced the radiator cap? Maybe you bought one with too high a pressure relief and so had too much cooling water pressure??
Doug

On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:05:52 +0200
Marcin Palacz palacz@... wrote:

dougpol1 · Aug 8, 2013

Yes I was talking about the raw water pump. I don't think the crankcase can drew a vacuum as it would just suck air into the filler cap. Here is what I would do. Put a tire air valve in a hose in the fresh water system and pump some pressure into the fresh water system. If you have a leak it will put water into the oil system.
I just found some info in the manual. The raw water pump has a drain hole in it. It cautions you that if you rebuild the pump to be sure that the two seals are located properly so that one of them does not cover that drain hole. If it does there could be a build up of water in the housing. If there is there is not another seal to stop it from going into the gear case, the pump is mounted on. If the hole is covered you likely could get several pounds of pressure inside the pump housing. Not the part were the impeller is, but the smaller diameter where the shaft runs through. Also there is supposed to be an "O" ring between the two seals to space them apart so neither slips over the drain hole. I bet this is your problem. I would take the pump apart and check this out. Do you have an engine repair manual?? DougDouglas Pollard Dougpol2@...On Fri, 09 Aug 2013 00:27:15 +0200
Marcin Palacz palacz@... wrote:

dougpol1 · Aug 9, 2013

Mercin my understanding of what the hole is for is that the seals are sooner or later going to leak unless they are replaced every year or two and may leak even then. The water leaking into the housing has to go some place. IF it doesn't drip into the pan under the engine it will have to go into the gear housing and the engine oil. I think the drain hole is between the two seals and the "O" holds them apart so that they do not cover the hole. I don't know how they solved that problem on later models. But they may have put another seal at the gear housing or the entire bottom of the shaft housing may be open. Somehow the water has to drain out of the shaft housing if the seals leak. We would all like to know how you trip home goes so post a note when you get home and let us know. Good Luck, Doug

Douglas

Pollard Dougpol2@...
On Fri, 09 Aug 2013 07:58:05 +0200
Marcin Palacz palacz@... wrote:

n3935j · Aug 10, 2013

Water can enter the engine from the water pump if the inner seal on the pump shaft is worn out or out of place. A over haul kit for the pump was available from Steve.
I had that problem once, The bleed hole on the bottom of the pump had some debris in it so there was no indication of a leak from the pump into the engine compartment, and water was going past the worn out shaft seals into the crankcase. Hopefully that*s the problem and not a bad head gasket.
Pat

dougpol1 · Aug 10, 2013

I am reasonably sure there should be a gasket between the pump hosing and the engine case otherwise oil would leak out of the engine. Some times people working on engines put shellac on gaskets to keep them from leaking. That makes them stick tight. I would bump the back of the pump to drive it away from the engine. Do not hit sideways. You can hit the ears of the pump flange to rotate them also that will break them lose from the gasket. IF you need a new gasket go to an automotive or marine engine shop and the mechanic will know how to make a new one. IF you want to try it. Buy a piece of gasket material. And draw around the flange and then cut out the gasket with a knife or scissors. I have mad a lot of them by tapping along the edges of the flange with a small hammer . that will cut through the gasket. Either one will work. You will have a gasket as good as volvo can make.
I know the instructions talk about leaving the "O" ring out or that newer engine may not have one. I would not leave it out. The seals without the "0" ring can mover over the drain hole. At some point the seals will leak when worn enough and the water will go in the engine if the hole is shut off.
Doug

Douglas Pollard Dougpol2@...
On Sat, 10 Aug 2013 12:06:58 -0000
"marcin_palacz" palacz@... wrote:

dougpol1 · Aug 10, 2013

Good. We will be looking forward to hearing from "Lotta" when you get Home. Doug

Douglas Pollard Dougpol2@...

On Sat, 10 Aug 2013 13:00:56 -0000
"marcin_palacz" palacz@... wrote:

dougpol1 · Aug 10, 2013

I would say that both seals should be intalled so that they hold pump pressure and do not let water go into the housing toward the engine. IF the drain hole was blocked that could be the problem. I would say if the hole is open it does not matter if the seals leak some. Of course this will allow some water to run into the pan under the engine. A small amount is not a problem. Somebody on line several years ago talked about putting epoxy in that hole. That is a huge mistake. At some point in time those seals will leak and that is not a problem as long as the hole is open to drain. That is what the pump is designed to do. DougOn Sat, 10 Aug 2013 15:35:43 -0000
"marcin_palacz" palacz@... wrote: