Engine Hours....What do they really mean?

[Maine Sail]

I would rather...

I would rather have a well maintained engine with 2500+ hours than a poorly maintained engine with 300 any day of the week!My 2003 Westerbeke 44B Four has over 2700 hours on her and by looking at it you'd swear she was brand new. The engine runs as smooth as the day it went in the boat and has always had the oil changed religiously every 50-75 hours, which is well before it's actually due. She also has had the tranny fluid changed and the closed system anti-freeze yearly along with zincs and valve adjustments. Even at 2700+ hours it burns NO oil and uses no oil. According to the maintenance logs the only failure was a water pump seal, temperature gauge sending unit and a leaking HX gasket. Running the engine keeps the engine compartment drier and also prevents rust on the engine...I'd be far more concerned with an engine that has only had yearly oil changes, or worse, one where the oner looks at you with their head cocked to one side when you ask "when was the last time the tranny fluid was changed?".. When you get that look of "hmmm there's actually a fluid in the transmission" while the guy is scratching his head walk away!

 

[Maine Sail]

I would rather...

I would rather have a well maintained engine with 2500+ hours than a poorly maintained engine with 300 any day of the week!My 2003 Westerbeke 44B Four has over 2700 hours on her and by looking at it you'd swear she was brand new. The engine runs as smooth as the day it went in the boat and has always had the oil changed religiously every 50-75 hours, which is well before it's actually due. She also has had the tranny fluid changed and the closed system anti-freeze yearly along with zincs and valve adjustments. Even at 2700+ hours it burns NO oil and uses no oil. According to the maintenance logs the only failure was a water pump seal, temperature gauge sending unit and a leaking HX gasket. Running the engine keeps the engine compartment drier and also prevents rust on the engine...I'd be far more concerned with an engine that has only had yearly oil changes, or worse, one where the oner looks at you with their head cocked to one side when you ask "when was the last time the tranny fluid was changed?".. When you get that look of "hmmm there's actually a fluid in the transmission" while the guy is scratching his head walk away!

 

[sailaway78]

Maint. is key

Maintenance is the key. A well maintained engine will virtually run forever. When TonyB bought his Allied 39 last year, the engine was showing around 4000 hours if memory serves. The PO owner of this boat was almost anal about keeping thing up. This engine was just about perfect. We did have some fuel filter problems crossing the gulf to Houston, but as far as the engine itself, it was and is virtually flawless.

 

[sailaway78]

Maint. is key

Maintenance is the key. A well maintained engine will virtually run forever. When TonyB bought his Allied 39 last year, the engine was showing around 4000 hours if memory serves. The PO owner of this boat was almost anal about keeping thing up. This engine was just about perfect. We did have some fuel filter problems crossing the gulf to Houston, but as far as the engine itself, it was and is virtually flawless.

 

[Stillraining]

For what its worth

I am an Ecvavation Contractor, with 17 pieces if equipment with a diesel engine in it. We use to burn close to 50,000 gal of diesel per year, keeping 7 to 10 piecies running every day. Now, sans employees for the past 5 years ( YAH! ) I still have almost eveything still sitting around, some of it gets used maybe once a year. One piece hasent seen a job for almost 2, Western washington is not a friendly enviroment for letting things sit but the engines are the last thing I worrie about. They always fire right up even after sitting for long periods. I do not change the oil now like I should but make sure a stabalizer is in both the fuel and the cooling system ( electrolysis )in all pieces. Most of my equipment is now aged as the newest piece is a 2000. I still work it hard every day ( well, every day I want to anyway ) alibet some more then others being a one man show now. A marine engine is more prone to develope block cooling issues due to deposits from raw water intake and electrolysis then anything else. Hours on our equipment range from 13,000 to 1200. I have only ever had to rebuid 1 enging compleatly @ 8900 hours a pick up tube fell off the oil pump and starved the pump. You can guess what happened next on your own. Other than that we have had 2 pieces over heat due to aged raidatiors clogging from deposits over time and have had to replace a head or two. I did have a machanic let one engine freeze up but thats another story. My take on it is no mater how many hours are on it ( within reason, bearings do wear out eventually ) if the cooling system and oil have been taken care of there is no need to fear much, "rather ran regulary or not". I have NEVER had a diesel sieze up like a gas engine will due to non use, there is enough lubrication in diesel to keep that from happining. So valves and rings just dont stick. An injector might go bad ( Rare ) and the seals in the injection pump might also but thats about it. It's all about the water ( Cooling ) in marine engines. Edit: We have to remember that our sailboat engines are cooking in there own heat with little cirulating air. So all the more dependent on a properly working cooling system.

 

[Stillraining]

For what its worth

I am an Ecvavation Contractor, with 17 pieces if equipment with a diesel engine in it. We use to burn close to 50,000 gal of diesel per year, keeping 7 to 10 piecies running every day. Now, sans employees for the past 5 years ( YAH! ) I still have almost eveything still sitting around, some of it gets used maybe once a year. One piece hasent seen a job for almost 2, Western washington is not a friendly enviroment for letting things sit but the engines are the last thing I worrie about. They always fire right up even after sitting for long periods. I do not change the oil now like I should but make sure a stabalizer is in both the fuel and the cooling system ( electrolysis )in all pieces. Most of my equipment is now aged as the newest piece is a 2000. I still work it hard every day ( well, every day I want to anyway ) alibet some more then others being a one man show now. A marine engine is more prone to develope block cooling issues due to deposits from raw water intake and electrolysis then anything else. Hours on our equipment range from 13,000 to 1200. I have only ever had to rebuid 1 enging compleatly @ 8900 hours a pick up tube fell off the oil pump and starved the pump. You can guess what happened next on your own. Other than that we have had 2 pieces over heat due to aged raidatiors clogging from deposits over time and have had to replace a head or two. I did have a machanic let one engine freeze up but thats another story. My take on it is no mater how many hours are on it ( within reason, bearings do wear out eventually ) if the cooling system and oil have been taken care of there is no need to fear much, "rather ran regulary or not". I have NEVER had a diesel sieze up like a gas engine will due to non use, there is enough lubrication in diesel to keep that from happining. So valves and rings just dont stick. An injector might go bad ( Rare ) and the seals in the injection pump might also but thats about it. It's all about the water ( Cooling ) in marine engines. Edit: We have to remember that our sailboat engines are cooking in there own heat with little cirulating air. So all the more dependent on a properly working cooling system.

 

[Stillraining]

For what its worth

I am an Ecvavation Contractor, with 17 pieces if equipment with a diesel engine in it. We use to burn close to 50,000 gal of diesel per year, keeping 7 to 10 piecies running every day. Now, sans employees for the past 5 years ( YAH! ) I still have almost eveything still sitting around, some of it gets used maybe once a year. One piece hasent seen a job for almost 2, Western washington is not a friendly enviroment for letting things sit but the engines are the last thing I worrie about. They always fire right up even after sitting for long periods. I do not change the oil now like I should but make sure a stabalizer is in both the fuel and the cooling system ( electrolysis )in all pieces. Most of my equipment is now aged as the newest piece is a 2000. I still work it hard every day ( well, every day I want to anyway ) alibet some more then others being a one man show now. A marine engine is more prone to develope block cooling issues due to deposits from raw water intake and electrolysis then anything else. Hours on our equipment range from 13,000 to 1200. I have only ever had to rebuid 1 enging compleatly @ 8900 hours a pick up tube fell off the oil pump and starved the pump. You can guess what happened next on your own. Other than that we have had 2 pieces over heat due to aged raidatiors clogging from deposits over time and have had to replace a head or two. I did have a machanic let one engine freeze up but thats another story. My take on it is no mater how many hours are on it ( within reason, bearings do wear out eventually ) if the cooling system and oil have been taken care of there is no need to fear much, "rather ran regulary or not". I have NEVER had a diesel sieze up like a gas engine will due to non use, there is enough lubrication in diesel to keep that from happining. So valves and rings just dont stick. An injector might go bad ( Rare ) and the seals in the injection pump might also but thats about it. It's all about the water ( Cooling ) in marine engines. Edit: We have to remember that our sailboat engines are cooking in there own heat with little cirulating air. So all the more dependent on a properly working cooling system.

 

[Stillraining]

For what its worth

I am an Ecvavation Contractor, with 17 pieces if equipment with a diesel engine in it. We use to burn close to 50,000 gal of diesel per year, keeping 7 to 10 piecies running every day. Now, sans employees for the past 5 years ( YAH! ) I still have almost eveything still sitting around, some of it gets used maybe once a year. One piece hasent seen a job for almost 2, Western washington is not a friendly enviroment for letting things sit but the engines are the last thing I worrie about. They always fire right up even after sitting for long periods. I do not change the oil now like I should but make sure a stabalizer is in both the fuel and the cooling system ( electrolysis )in all pieces. Most of my equipment is now aged as the newest piece is a 2000. I still work it hard every day ( well, every day I want to anyway ) alibet some more then others being a one man show now. A marine engine is more prone to develope block cooling issues due to deposits from raw water intake and electrolysis then anything else. Hours on our equipment range from 13,000 to 1200. I have only ever had to rebuid 1 enging compleatly @ 8900 hours a pick up tube fell off the oil pump and starved the pump. You can guess what happened next on your own. Other than that we have had 2 pieces over heat due to aged raidatiors clogging from deposits over time and have had to replace a head or two. I did have a machanic let one engine freeze up but thats another story. My take on it is no mater how many hours are on it ( within reason, bearings do wear out eventually ) if the cooling system and oil have been taken care of there is no need to fear much, "rather ran regulary or not". I have NEVER had a diesel sieze up like a gas engine will due to non use, there is enough lubrication in diesel to keep that from happining. So valves and rings just dont stick. An injector might go bad ( Rare ) and the seals in the injection pump might also but thats about it. It's all about the water ( Cooling ) in marine engines. Edit: We have to remember that our sailboat engines are cooking in there own heat with little cirulating air. So all the more dependent on a properly working cooling system.

 

[TT23844]

Engine hours

For what it's worth, I was told by a yacht broker that a rule-of-thumb is to assume 175-200 engine hours per year: that's for a non-commercial power boat here in Canada ( 4-5 month season, max !!). I doubt that you could ever WEAR OUT an aux. FWC diesel in a sailboat, provided it was properly maintained and intelligently used. Corrosion & neglect will take their toll, and there are some parts that will require overhaul or replacement on a regular basis ( injectors, water pumps, belts & hoses, and exhaust risers come to mind ) but given clean fuel and reasonable maintenance & use, any good quality marine diesel should last for years in a sailboat. My main concern abt. engine hours would be those hours that are put on the clock idling to charge batteries or to "warm up" the engine.

 

[TT23844]

Engine hours

For what it's worth, I was told by a yacht broker that a rule-of-thumb is to assume 175-200 engine hours per year: that's for a non-commercial power boat here in Canada ( 4-5 month season, max !!). I doubt that you could ever WEAR OUT an aux. FWC diesel in a sailboat, provided it was properly maintained and intelligently used. Corrosion & neglect will take their toll, and there are some parts that will require overhaul or replacement on a regular basis ( injectors, water pumps, belts & hoses, and exhaust risers come to mind ) but given clean fuel and reasonable maintenance & use, any good quality marine diesel should last for years in a sailboat. My main concern abt. engine hours would be those hours that are put on the clock idling to charge batteries or to "warm up" the engine.

 

[TT23844]

Engine hours

For what it's worth, I was told by a yacht broker that a rule-of-thumb is to assume 175-200 engine hours per year: that's for a non-commercial power boat here in Canada ( 4-5 month season, max !!). I doubt that you could ever WEAR OUT an aux. FWC diesel in a sailboat, provided it was properly maintained and intelligently used. Corrosion & neglect will take their toll, and there are some parts that will require overhaul or replacement on a regular basis ( injectors, water pumps, belts & hoses, and exhaust risers come to mind ) but given clean fuel and reasonable maintenance & use, any good quality marine diesel should last for years in a sailboat. My main concern abt. engine hours would be those hours that are put on the clock idling to charge batteries or to "warm up" the engine.

 

[TT23844]

Engine hours

For what it's worth, I was told by a yacht broker that a rule-of-thumb is to assume 175-200 engine hours per year: that's for a non-commercial power boat here in Canada ( 4-5 month season, max !!). I doubt that you could ever WEAR OUT an aux. FWC diesel in a sailboat, provided it was properly maintained and intelligently used. Corrosion & neglect will take their toll, and there are some parts that will require overhaul or replacement on a regular basis ( injectors, water pumps, belts & hoses, and exhaust risers come to mind ) but given clean fuel and reasonable maintenance & use, any good quality marine diesel should last for years in a sailboat. My main concern abt. engine hours would be those hours that are put on the clock idling to charge batteries or to "warm up" the engine.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

What I was told....

What I was told about diesel engines is that if they are not worked hard, they will carbonize in th cylinders. Which is basically what TT was saying. Most sail boats have diesel engine problems regularly and thats because they never put the hammer down. What I do is when I just want to run my engine is to put it in gear at the dock and raise the RPM's a bit and that puts a load on the engine. I hope I am doing the right thing. DO WE HAVE ANY PRO DIESEL MECHANICS HERE ????Tony B

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

What I was told....

What I was told about diesel engines is that if they are not worked hard, they will carbonize in th cylinders. Which is basically what TT was saying. Most sail boats have diesel engine problems regularly and thats because they never put the hammer down. What I do is when I just want to run my engine is to put it in gear at the dock and raise the RPM's a bit and that puts a load on the engine. I hope I am doing the right thing. DO WE HAVE ANY PRO DIESEL MECHANICS HERE ????Tony B

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

What I was told....

What I was told about diesel engines is that if they are not worked hard, they will carbonize in th cylinders. Which is basically what TT was saying. Most sail boats have diesel engine problems regularly and thats because they never put the hammer down. What I do is when I just want to run my engine is to put it in gear at the dock and raise the RPM's a bit and that puts a load on the engine. I hope I am doing the right thing. DO WE HAVE ANY PRO DIESEL MECHANICS HERE ????Tony B

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

What I was told....

What I was told about diesel engines is that if they are not worked hard, they will carbonize in th cylinders. Which is basically what TT was saying. Most sail boats have diesel engine problems regularly and thats because they never put the hammer down. What I do is when I just want to run my engine is to put it in gear at the dock and raise the RPM's a bit and that puts a load on the engine. I hope I am doing the right thing. DO WE HAVE ANY PRO DIESEL MECHANICS HERE ????Tony B

 

[Stillraining]

Idleing by itself

is not nessarly detrimental to a four stroke diesel motor. A two stroke will what we call slober up at an Idel and acumulate oil at the air boxes and therefor needes to be ran at a faster Idel then a four stroke or shut down compleatly to avoid it. GM's Detroit Diesels had the lion share of the market for years and a lot of their engines were 2 stroke, hence this urban ledgen was created that trancended to all diesels which is not true.  While working on the North Slope of Alaska we never shut an engine down in the winter other then to change the oil, thats 7 months out of the year. Gen plants, Trucks, Heavy equipment, it didnt matter. ( Most all were 4 strokes ) . We ran it 24/7. Half of which would inevitably be at Idle. Now having said all this we did not just let it lope along and "hunt" for it's own sweet spot but we advanced the low idle by 2 to 3 hundred rpm either by use of an electric solinoid or hand throttele. I find my fuel consumption in my boat's barley goes up but I gain a little oil pressure when I do this, which is one of the reasons all the old timers would declair why you cant idel a diesel in the first place, in that, there is not enough oil pressure to keep things lubricated, you efectivly take that argument away. Diesels are designed to function at a lower lubricating PSI anyway some as low as 25 psi at full RPM. We use to tell the cop's that pulled us over in our street cars that we were just burnning the carbon out. It never made my car run better and it never saved us from a ticket either.  However carbon is a different issue in a gas engine where we have a spark plug to fowl and which might not and probably will not clean itself compleatly so reduces it's efectivness. The other issue in both engines is the valves & seats. Diesels by there nature of very high compresion, and self ignition of those compressed gasses do not experance the same ill effects from prolonged slightly increesed idle, even at no loads. The pressures tend to keep things at bay. As soon as you advance the throttle you will in most cases see a resulting beltch of black smoke as the engine recieves a metering of fuel that it cant burn compleatly this is a grater source of possibal deposits then ideling ever will be and it happens every time we advance a throttle quickly. As cylinder head temps rise and rpm's catch up with this influx all in a matter of milliaseconds all warm, tight and properly funtioning engines clean up to an invisibal emission or close to it under zero load. There is not so much as a gain in cylinder head pressures at full RPM as compared to idle , as cylinder head tempeture just from the plain fact that we cant cool it better. It is possibal to burn a hole in a diesels pistons by over fueling it. Our fleet of heavy equipment spends at least 20% of its life on a job at idle. On my machine with 13000 hours on it, thats 2600 hours idleing! A diesel engine is a diesel engine their use in boats does not change there opperation only their function.

 

[Stillraining]

Idleing by itself

is not nessarly detrimental to a four stroke diesel motor. A two stroke will what we call slober up at an Idel and acumulate oil at the air boxes and therefor needes to be ran at a faster Idel then a four stroke or shut down compleatly to avoid it. GM's Detroit Diesels had the lion share of the market for years and a lot of their engines were 2 stroke, hence this urban ledgen was created that trancended to all diesels which is not true.  While working on the North Slope of Alaska we never shut an engine down in the winter other then to change the oil, thats 7 months out of the year. Gen plants, Trucks, Heavy equipment, it didnt matter. ( Most all were 4 strokes ) . We ran it 24/7. Half of which would inevitably be at Idle. Now having said all this we did not just let it lope along and "hunt" for it's own sweet spot but we advanced the low idle by 2 to 3 hundred rpm either by use of an electric solinoid or hand throttele. I find my fuel consumption in my boat's barley goes up but I gain a little oil pressure when I do this, which is one of the reasons all the old timers would declair why you cant idel a diesel in the first place, in that, there is not enough oil pressure to keep things lubricated, you efectivly take that argument away. Diesels are designed to function at a lower lubricating PSI anyway some as low as 25 psi at full RPM. We use to tell the cop's that pulled us over in our street cars that we were just burnning the carbon out. It never made my car run better and it never saved us from a ticket either.  However carbon is a different issue in a gas engine where we have a spark plug to fowl and which might not and probably will not clean itself compleatly so reduces it's efectivness. The other issue in both engines is the valves & seats. Diesels by there nature of very high compresion, and self ignition of those compressed gasses do not experance the same ill effects from prolonged slightly increesed idle, even at no loads. The pressures tend to keep things at bay. As soon as you advance the throttle you will in most cases see a resulting beltch of black smoke as the engine recieves a metering of fuel that it cant burn compleatly this is a grater source of possibal deposits then ideling ever will be and it happens every time we advance a throttle quickly. As cylinder head temps rise and rpm's catch up with this influx all in a matter of milliaseconds all warm, tight and properly funtioning engines clean up to an invisibal emission or close to it under zero load. There is not so much as a gain in cylinder head pressures at full RPM as compared to idle , as cylinder head tempeture just from the plain fact that we cant cool it better. It is possibal to burn a hole in a diesels pistons by over fueling it. Our fleet of heavy equipment spends at least 20% of its life on a job at idle. On my machine with 13000 hours on it, thats 2600 hours idleing! A diesel engine is a diesel engine their use in boats does not change there opperation only their function.

 

[Stillraining]

Idleing by itself

is not nessarly detrimental to a four stroke diesel motor. A two stroke will what we call slober up at an Idel and acumulate oil at the air boxes and therefor needes to be ran at a faster Idel then a four stroke or shut down compleatly to avoid it. GM's Detroit Diesels had the lion share of the market for years and a lot of their engines were 2 stroke, hence this urban ledgen was created that trancended to all diesels which is not true.  While working on the North Slope of Alaska we never shut an engine down in the winter other then to change the oil, thats 7 months out of the year. Gen plants, Trucks, Heavy equipment, it didnt matter. ( Most all were 4 strokes ) . We ran it 24/7. Half of which would inevitably be at Idle. Now having said all this we did not just let it lope along and "hunt" for it's own sweet spot but we advanced the low idle by 2 to 3 hundred rpm either by use of an electric solinoid or hand throttele. I find my fuel consumption in my boat's barley goes up but I gain a little oil pressure when I do this, which is one of the reasons all the old timers would declair why you cant idel a diesel in the first place, in that, there is not enough oil pressure to keep things lubricated, you efectivly take that argument away. Diesels are designed to function at a lower lubricating PSI anyway some as low as 25 psi at full RPM. We use to tell the cop's that pulled us over in our street cars that we were just burnning the carbon out. It never made my car run better and it never saved us from a ticket either.  However carbon is a different issue in a gas engine where we have a spark plug to fowl and which might not and probably will not clean itself compleatly so reduces it's efectivness. The other issue in both engines is the valves & seats. Diesels by there nature of very high compresion, and self ignition of those compressed gasses do not experance the same ill effects from prolonged slightly increesed idle, even at no loads. The pressures tend to keep things at bay. As soon as you advance the throttle you will in most cases see a resulting beltch of black smoke as the engine recieves a metering of fuel that it cant burn compleatly this is a grater source of possibal deposits then ideling ever will be and it happens every time we advance a throttle quickly. As cylinder head temps rise and rpm's catch up with this influx all in a matter of milliaseconds all warm, tight and properly funtioning engines clean up to an invisibal emission or close to it under zero load. There is not so much as a gain in cylinder head pressures at full RPM as compared to idle , as cylinder head tempeture just from the plain fact that we cant cool it better. It is possibal to burn a hole in a diesels pistons by over fueling it. Our fleet of heavy equipment spends at least 20% of its life on a job at idle. On my machine with 13000 hours on it, thats 2600 hours idleing! A diesel engine is a diesel engine their use in boats does not change there opperation only their function.

 

[Stillraining]

Idleing by itself

is not nessarly detrimental to a four stroke diesel motor. A two stroke will what we call slober up at an Idel and acumulate oil at the air boxes and therefor needes to be ran at a faster Idel then a four stroke or shut down compleatly to avoid it. GM's Detroit Diesels had the lion share of the market for years and a lot of their engines were 2 stroke, hence this urban ledgen was created that trancended to all diesels which is not true.  While working on the North Slope of Alaska we never shut an engine down in the winter other then to change the oil, thats 7 months out of the year. Gen plants, Trucks, Heavy equipment, it didnt matter. ( Most all were 4 strokes ) . We ran it 24/7. Half of which would inevitably be at Idle. Now having said all this we did not just let it lope along and "hunt" for it's own sweet spot but we advanced the low idle by 2 to 3 hundred rpm either by use of an electric solinoid or hand throttele. I find my fuel consumption in my boat's barley goes up but I gain a little oil pressure when I do this, which is one of the reasons all the old timers would declair why you cant idel a diesel in the first place, in that, there is not enough oil pressure to keep things lubricated, you efectivly take that argument away. Diesels are designed to function at a lower lubricating PSI anyway some as low as 25 psi at full RPM. We use to tell the cop's that pulled us over in our street cars that we were just burnning the carbon out. It never made my car run better and it never saved us from a ticket either.  However carbon is a different issue in a gas engine where we have a spark plug to fowl and which might not and probably will not clean itself compleatly so reduces it's efectivness. The other issue in both engines is the valves & seats. Diesels by there nature of very high compresion, and self ignition of those compressed gasses do not experance the same ill effects from prolonged slightly increesed idle, even at no loads. The pressures tend to keep things at bay. As soon as you advance the throttle you will in most cases see a resulting beltch of black smoke as the engine recieves a metering of fuel that it cant burn compleatly this is a grater source of possibal deposits then ideling ever will be and it happens every time we advance a throttle quickly. As cylinder head temps rise and rpm's catch up with this influx all in a matter of milliaseconds all warm, tight and properly funtioning engines clean up to an invisibal emission or close to it under zero load. There is not so much as a gain in cylinder head pressures at full RPM as compared to idle , as cylinder head tempeture just from the plain fact that we cant cool it better. It is possibal to burn a hole in a diesels pistons by over fueling it. Our fleet of heavy equipment spends at least 20% of its life on a job at idle. On my machine with 13000 hours on it, thats 2600 hours idleing! A diesel engine is a diesel engine their use in boats does not change there opperation only their function.