Emptying water tanks on a Pearson 34?

[JonnyEp]

Looking for general advice on the best way to empty these tanks. The boat was hauled onto the dry before I had a chance to deal with this. Do I use a siphon through the deck port and let gravity to the work or should I use some kind of electric pump and maybe pump out from the mouth of the tank itself into cockpit ? Any advice would be welcome.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Why can’t you just run the water pump feeding the sink faucet?

 

[dLj]

When I drain my water tanks, it doesn't matter if I'm on the hard.or in the water - I do it exactly the same way. In my case, one tank I use the on-board water pump and run the water out through all my sinks and showers. The other tank I open a valve at the bottom of the tank and drain it straight into my bilge and let my bilge pump run it out the bilge drain. I use this method simply because it makes dumping all water much faster - I carry 220 gallons of drinking water.

If this is the fresh water system I'm not sure what your dilemma is. You can just dump fresh water on the land.

You must have some kind of constraints I'm not understanding?

dj

 

[JonnyEp]

Thank you. The only constraint I have is a severe lack of knowledge about how plumbing works on a boat. Lol.

I now understand what needs to be done.

next step is getting some antifreeze through the system. I'm here in New York.

 

[dLj]

Thank you. The only constraint I have is a severe lack of knowledge about how plumbing works on a boat. Lol.

I now understand what needs to be done.

next step is getting some antifreeze through the system. I'm here in New York.

Are you down on City Island?

Do you have a deck wash down by chance? If you do, you have to winterize the piping in that also. All systems on the boat that have water going through them need to be filled with antifreeze: Marine head, fresh water system, engine cooling system, deck wash down, heat pump, whatever you might have that runs water through it during normal usage needs antifreeze. Propylene Glycol - it's preferred to not use antifreeze that contains alcohol. That can give problems with engine seals and the like.

You do need to gain an understanding of the systems on your boat.

dj

 

[JonnyEp]

Thank you DJ, understood. I have owned the boat for 2 months, and have never had a boat with functional plumbing. I did winterize the engine (Yanmar 2GM20) on my Catalina 30 last year (thanks to a kind soul on a forum who helped me understand that the engine had been retrofitted to be an 'f' freshwater model but didn't say so on the plate!

Anyway, thanks to you and others , and the manuals, I will get a better understanding!

I am indeed on City Island.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Are you down on City Island?

Do you have a deck wash down by chance? If you do, you have to winterize the piping in that also. All systems on the boat that have water going through them need to be filled with antifreeze:


dj

I don’t think you meant that literally. Completely filling spaces devoid of water is a waste of money and antifreeze. Void space doesn’t freeze and expand.

To be clear, what’s important is to not leave water in a confined space, e.g., hose, tank, etc…, where it can damage anything when it freezes.

Empty everything including the water heater, bilge and bilge pump hose and toilet Any residual water won’t damage anything but to ensure that, run enough antifreeze to displace any water. No need to fill tanks or toilet or hoses with antifreeze. I used less than 3 gal of antifreeze on a boat with 2 heads, 1 water heater, 2 AC units, three sinks, 2 deck wash hoses and 4 water tanks when living up north.

 

[dlochner]

next step is getting some antifreeze through the system. I'm here in New York.

The last thing you want to do is fill the system with anti-freeze as @Don S/V ILLusion notes it is a waste of anti-freeze and money and time. And you will have a heck of a time removing it next spring as the system will need repeated flushing to rid the system of the anti-freeze.

Drain everything and pump a little anti-freeze through the pump only. Do this by disconnecting the pump outlet and attaching a short piece of hose, stick the hose in a bucket. Disconnect the inlet to the pump, attach a short piece of hose and stick that in the jug of antifreeze. Run the pump to flush it. It should take less than ½ gallon of AF. Drain the pump and put it back together. For the rest of the system use a small air compressor or a shop vac to blow (not suck) air through the system purging any water.

So long as any remaining water has room to expand as it freezes no damage will occur to the system. Water left in the pump can destroy the diaphragm in the pump when it freezes, so it is most import to get all the water out of the pump.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

The last thing you want to do is fill the system with anti-freeze as @Don S/V ILLusion notes it is a waste of anti-freeze and money and time. And you will have a heck of a time removing it next spring as the system will need repeated flushing to rid the system of the anti-freeze.

Drain everything and pump a little anti-freeze through the pump only. Do this by disconnecting the pump outlet and attaching a short piece of hose, stick the hose in a bucket. Disconnect the inlet to the pump, attach a short piece of hose and stick that in the jug of antifreeze. Run the pump to flush it. It should take less than ½ gallon of AF. Drain the pump and put it back together. For the rest of the system use a small air compressor or a shop vac to blow (not suck) air through the system purging any water.

So long as any remaining water has room to expand as it freezes no damage will occur to the system. Water left in the pump can destroy the diaphragm in the pump when it freezes, so it is most import to get all the water out of the pump.

Do all hoses need to be disconnected when blowing them out or is opening the faucet sufficient? Since most diaphragm pumps are free flowing in one direction, can a vacuum be attached to the pump inlet?

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Do all hoses need to be disconnected when blowing them out or is opening the faucet sufficient? Since most diaphragm pumps are free flowing in one direction, can a vacuum be attached to the pump inlet?

While it’s more common to pressure blow out the lines, a vacuum serves th same purpose. No need to disconnect anything.

The simplist way to winterize potable water systems is run the tank(s) dry using the water pump. Then put a little antifreeze in the tank(s) and pump some more until you see antifreeze flow into the sink. Bypassing the water heater tank after it’s drained saves some antifreeze entering the tank which isn’t necessary or desirable. Any residual water in the heater tank is harmless.

Editorial comment - living in Fl is easier

 

[dlochner]

Do all hoses need to be disconnected when blowing them out or is opening the faucet sufficient? Since most diaphragm pumps are free flowing in one direction, can a vacuum be attached to the pump inlet?

I think it really depends on how the pump is constructed. While I have taken apart pressure water pumps I was looking for damaged diaphragms, not valves. My guess is that sucking out the inlet won't work because there needs to be a valve to prevent any pressure developed from leaking back into the tanks, but I"m not certain.

I just disconnect the hoses on either side of the pump and open the faucets one at a time (There are 5 faucets on my boat) so the pressure is high for that particular run. If all of them are open the air pressure is lower in each of the lines and may not be high enough to clear the line. If there is a pressure tank in the system that needs to be drained.

To make life easier use SS supply lines to connect the pump to the lines. These are available from any plumbing or HW store and are the same ones used on the faucets in your home. Install a ½" NPT to Barb connector on the line and use ½" FIP supply lines to make the connection. No messing with wrestling hoses off of barbed fittings and dealing with hose clamps.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

While it’s more common to pressure blow out the lines, a vacuum serves th same purpose. No need to disconnect anything.

The simplist way to winterize potable water systems is run the tank(s) dry using the water pump. Then put a little antifreeze in the tank(s) and pump some more until you see antifreeze flow into the sink. Bypassing the water heater tank after it’s drained saves some antifreeze entering the tank which isn’t necessary or desirable. Any residual water in the heater tank is harmless.

Editorial comment - living in Fl is easier

In these woods it's more common to use antifreeze but that's a recipe for organic growth inside the plumbing system

 

[thinwater]

Some winterizing tips

Lots of good posts.

• Draining is good ... if you get it all. It is very easy to miss a tiny low spot, and even easier for a new owner who does not know his boat.
• Blowing/vaccing out. This does NOT always work. Low spots. Not enough flow in some area. It may work for one boat and not another. Not worth the risk IMO. You don't know the risk until it fails.
• Drying the water tank. My favorite is to not just drain the tank, but to dry it. This is a good chance to clean it as well. Then, all you need to do in the spring is fill the tank. Pump some fresh, now-chlorinated, city water through the lines, and you are good.
• Taking stuff apart every year often results in leaks. No thanks.

Spend the time adding valves to suck AF in the key spots. It's some work, but once done, you can winterize in minutes. My cruising cat, with AC, multiple showers, and all the rest, could be winterized in 10 minutes. Less mess, less AF. Add the valves.

 

[thinwater]

In these woods it's more common to use antifreeze but that's a recipe for organic growth inside the plumbing system

Not if the AF is >30%. This pickles the system, just as alcohol over 30% cannot ferment further. What gets people is when the water in the system dilutes the AF to 20% or less. Then it is like wine.

You can't be cheap with AF. You have to use enough. Test the AF as it comes out the other end. Sailors can be a cheap lot, bragging about how little AF they use, then complaining when it ferments.

(This is also a common problem in comercial HVAC systems. They use as little AF as possible to save a dollar, then it ferments, turns acidic, and corrodes the system. I've seen the pH drop from 10 to 2.)

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Not if the AF is >30%. This pickles the system, just as alcohol over 30% cannot ferment further. What gets people is when the water in the system dilutes the AF to 20% or less. Then it is like wine.

You can't be cheap with AF. You have to use enough. Test the AF as it comes out the other end. Sailors can be a cheap lot, bragging about how little AF they use, then complaining when it ferments.

(This is also a common problem in comercial HVAC systems. They use as little AF as possible to save a dollar, then it ferments, turns acidic, and corrodes the system. I've seen the pH drop from 10 to 2.)

This is actually quite fascinating. Why is chemistry not taught to the masses in schools? We use chemicals every day of our lives without a clue as to what they do, what they react with, etc

 

[dlochner]

This is actually quite fascinating. Why is chemistry not taught to the masses in schools? We use chemicals every day of our lives without a clue as to what they do, what they react with, etc

It is offered to the masses in high school, too many parents do not insist on their kids taking it. And even more valuable than chemistry is physics, even HS physics is incredibly helpful. These courses can be demanding especially with the math in physics.

Dave
Former Chem major done in by Organic and Linear Algebra

 

[dLj]

It is offered to the masses in high school, too many parents do not insist on their kids taking it. And even more valuable than chemistry is physics, even HS physics is incredibly helpful. These courses can be demanding especially with the math in physics.

Dave
Former Chem major done in by Organic and Linear Algebra

Back when I was in college, the physics department offered a course called "Physics for Poets". I had a friend who was an art major who took it and we would chat about what he was learning - I wanted to take the course just for the enjoyment! No math to speak of, just how physics applies to everyday life.

dj

 

[thinwater]

For boaters, the chemistry topics that jump out at me are:

• Cleaning. If you know what the soil is, you can pick the cleaner. You don't actually need very many, but you need to understand the basic groups.
• Solvents. Similar to cleaning. Also what solvents/chemicals will damage what. At the very least, Google chemical compatibility tables. A solvent is not just "strong." Example: water is a powerful solvent; try dissolving salt or metals in anything else.
• Adhesives. Same idea. What can bond to what. What they can withstand. What will remove them. The basics are simple.

Some topics are complex. Fuel stability and additives are like that.

I recall a chemistry course in college called "descriptive chemistry." Like physics without math. Pretty useful.

Life is chemistry.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Physics and Chemistry is useful for every day stuff. I was forced to take Physical science in HS which combined chemistry and physics. Oddly enough, biology was separate. I haven't found much use for what I learned in it.

Cleaning and adhesives were the two applications that popped into my mind for everyday use

 

[dLj]

Physics and Chemistry is useful for every day stuff. I was forced to take Physical science in HS which combined chemistry and physics. Oddly enough, biology was separate. I haven't found much use for what I learned in it.

Cleaning and adhesives were the two applications that popped into my mind for everyday use

This comment reminds me of a Walt Whitman poem:

When I Heard the Learn’d Astronomer
By Walt Whitman

When I heard the learn’d astronomer,
When the proofs, the figures, were ranged in columns before me,
When I was shown the charts and diagrams, to add, divide, and measure them,
When I sitting heard the astronomer where he lectured with much applause in the lecture-room,
How soon unaccountable I became tired and sick,
Till rising and gliding out I wander’d off by myself,
In the mystical moist night-air, and from time to time,
Look’d up in perfect silence at the stars.


dj