empty water tank

[teucer]

New to this site, and have a quick question. Yesterday, I had a small disaster on my new 2009 hunter 33. It has been unusally cold here (BC) and something finally froze and broke. It was the rear transon shower head. (No major pipe damages, only the liitle plastic shower handle broke.

That cause the rubber ring to move and water to flow all inside the boat (under the cockpit). Bilge pump worked like a charge, other then a bit of water in the bilge, no damage at all to the interior of the boat.

My question is: when I arrived, my water pump was running (who knows how long, likely several hours) and both hot and fresh water tank drained.

1- Will the pump be damaged. I still hear the motor running, can it run dry for a long period of time.

2- Since the hot water tank was empty, and hot water heater on, will the tank be damaged (heater).

3- Finally, now being x-mas, can I wait a few days to fill up the system again or can I leave it empty for a few days without causing any further damages.

thanks for the advice,

Lesson learned, hot water heater off and pump off when away fro the boat.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Sorry you had to learn those lessons the hard way.
If you have an impeller type water pump, it's probable the impeller was destroyed but all you need to (whenever it is appropriate depending on the temp) is refill the tank part way and see if the pump works - if not, either replace the impeller or the pump. It's unlikely the motor was damaged. The impeller cannot run dry without overheating. If you have a diaphragm water pump, you're probably fine.
The water heater won't run dry unless you emptied it - just running water through the system will not empty the tank so it should be fine. If it was empty and the heating element was on, it cooked.

 

[teucer]

thank for the reply

Good and bad news i guess. My fresh water tank emptied out completely, I am assuming the hot water did as well. When I turn on the tap now, there is absolutley no water coming out hot or cold. (There was a very little amount on hot water at first). I am a little concern for my heater. (I guess we will find out on refill.)

Would it be ok if I leave it empty (the system) for a few days or would that cause the pressure to be all screwed up.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Again, you cannot empty the water heater by allowing the water pump to run. Even when the tank(s) run dry, the water heater remains full unless you intentionally drain it. All the pump pumps is water from the tank(s); not the heater. My guess as to the reason you are not now getting water flow is air entrained in the system.

Regardless, in answer to your last q, nothing wrong with leaving it empty as is. Most of us do precisely that as a means of winterizating the water system - run the tank and plumbing dry, drain water heater and not worry about anything freezing.

If you don't winterize in your area, this presents an opportunity for you to disinfect the system while it is empty before the next re-fill. Presuming you know how, I won't explain further.

 

[Stu Jackson]

A larger question is:

why was the water pressure ON when you weren't on the boat? In addition to the wise counsel offered, you may want to reconsider your operating procedures. When we leave our boat, everything except the bilge pump (wired directly to the house bank with a fuse) is OFF, and we also open the water faucet to relieve any pressure in the system, and then close it. Hard lesson learned...

I feel bad for you, but am trying to understand why people leave stuff ON when they leave their boat. Just a question maybe you can help me understand.

Here's a link to the water system recommissioning thread from Peggie (I can always find it by doing a search on "recommission" in the title.

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=476407

 

[Bob V]

An easy way to find out

if your water heater was empty, and therefore fried, is to open the drain valve at the bottom of your water heater and see if water drains out. If your boat is unheated you may want to drain that anyway.

If you drain it down completely make certain that you run a hot water tap for a while after filling your tanks to refill the heater before you turn on the electric water heater again.

 

[Ian4781]

You can't really say if damage has been done until you refill the system and see if both your pump and heater work properly.If you are not heating the area around the water heater and piping,you are best to empty the entire system (with power off on heater and pump) until you are ready to keep the system safe and warm.Refill the the entire system and run water throughout to ensure that no air is in the tank then try the hot water tank.If your tank is lower than the outlet that broke,you may be lucky and find that your tank will be fine as the tank it self may not have been empty....Good Luck!

 

[Steve Dion]

I doubt that the water heater was damaged. The water heater was full before the episode started. Once there is no more storage water to push to the tank the pump starts sucking air and the tank should still have water in it.

The best way to find out about the pump is to just try it. If it will not pump, you can usually return it to the mfg. and they can test & rebuild if necessary. If it is shot consider one of the newer computerized pumps like a VSD.

Good luck, we will be standing by to hear the details.

 

[teucer]

I really do appreciate

All the help. wish I wasn't so dumb and knew about shutting down the water pump and heater..... I guess now I know. I went from a small tanzer 22 which had no water and power other then the batterie to my new hunter 33. I am no making excuses, but if my mishap can help even only one other member of this board to avoid something similar, I think that is why we are all here. (To help)
I guess I could of read, search or asked more but insight is always 20/20.
I will try and re start everything. But like I said, the source of the problem was at the shower in the transom which received less heat. The head of the shower broke. My guess not being 100% sure is that the broken shower head then pulled hot and cold water towards it draining the hot water tank. I am assuming it kept filling itself by the pump until fresh water tank ran out. Problem is since shower haed was likely still leaking. Even with the water tank empty and pump qorking on empty the water heater was likely still emptying to the shower.
I hope I am wrong and it still work but only time and trial will tell.
I will post results of my trials. It will likely be on the week end or next week when we get to above zero degrees again... Stay tuned.
Thanks again guys

 

[WingcoJules]

I had a similar problem. A faulty stern shower head emptied the fresh water tank into the bilges of my Beneteau 331. As the bilges are shallow, there was water slopping about above sole level which was very worrying. Only when I tasted the water, did I realise that the boat (which is kept in salt water) was not sinking. We had no problem with the calorifier as it has a thermostat which switches off - yours may well be similar.

Happy sailing in 2009. Expect we will all need to get away from the recession.....

 

[Rick]

teucer welcome! Checked your profile and cant tell whether its your first boat. My only observation is what you did is baby sh*t We all have done it although some of us here, and it cracks me up, have forgotten that they did it too. "I just dont understand how people leave boat with systems on". Give me a break! Take your lumps and keep posting. A wrecked fresh water pump does not have a high probablility of sinking your boat. If your just day sailing and coastal cruising, see if it still works. If it does your golden, if not.. fix it when you get back in. OR maybe use your warranty with a really sheepish look.. hey it just quit!

Cheers

 

[Stu Jackson]

Only asked the question to learn something

because as long as we've had boats we always turned everything off when we left. If there is a good (or for that matter any) reason to leave something, other than the bilge pump, on, or other "techniques', it'd be nice to know, as I noted after that comment. I also posted a link for teucer to use to recommission.

 

[Rick]

Re: Only asked the question to learn something

Stu... first merry xmas!
I have been reading your posts here for many years.. so I felt like yankin your rode a bit. You know how sometimes we get newbies and someone lowers the boom on them for not knowing stuff we have learned by spending a replacement boat buck or scrambling to find the plug we were supposed to already have handy by that thru hull. Kinda hard to make that first post, admit your new or new to your boat. You remember when we had the big discussion of whether a keel creates lift when healing? Everyone got a shot fired across the bow who participated. No worries mate!
I have a mental checklist, fridge (cause we keep food for next time), outlets to charge drill batteries, battery charger, etc. But when new, I put white labels by the stuff we wanted left on. Was easy to see against black background on elec panel.
K that was pretty much useless drivel but I am enjoying xmas eve although a bit pissed im not at the boat. Im hitting enter anyway

Cheers

 

[Stu Jackson]

Ah, the joys of new (to-you) boat ownership

Not being on the boat today is because we're in beautiful British Columbia, on Vancouver Island where it hardly ever snows except there's a new 5 inches since the 15 inch dump the other day. Beautiful, but glad we went food shopping yesterday because the roads are closed!

As for our first new-to-us boat story: Catalina 22, trailered to a California delta launch ramp, managed to get the mast up and launch onto the San Joaquin River, blowin' 20 from astern. Had stupidly put the icebox under the tiller, which cleverly leveraged the rudder out of the pintles. Boat going north, rudder popped out, going south! Managed to get the engine going, sail down, and retrieved the rudder, thanking Frank Butler all the time for making a rudder that floated. Got things together, pulled off the river to a side tie next to an old abandoned dock, only to get the upper shroud caught in an overhanging metal roof.

The libations were excessively welcomed that night once we found a nice place to drop the hook.

Any more fun stories out there to warm a landlocked sailor's heart in a snowstorm?

Merry Christmas

Ah, yes, but we are overlooking Satellite Channel and Saltspring Island - not a bad view - no boats out there today.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Just noticed that teucer is from Point Roberts

so he's getting the same snowstorm we are having here. Time for a SNOWMAN ABOUT NOW, AFTER WE TRIM THE TREE.

 

[teucer]

Now the snow....

Now that the mess of the water is behind me, times to worry about the snow. I am about 40 minutes from my boat(pt roberts) and now worry about all that weight on my enclosure. I hope the canvass will support all the snow......

Hopefully I will make it there tonight and clear some of that white stuff out of it.....

Stu, sounds like you are in a great spot on the islands..... enjoy....

te

 

[Ron20324]

Teucer, may we assume there are no other on/off hot/cold-mixer valves that feed the right temperature of water to the shower head, or is it a cold-water spray only? Is the spray head the ONLY on/off? Might there be another place where the water line froze and broke?

 

[Stu Jackson]

The snow was light and fluffy, until it warmed up yesterday and made the snow heavy and wet. I spoke with a friend who has his boat on Howe Sound just this afternoon who had snoveled snow off his boat and had suggested that knowledgeable sailors remove their biminis in anticipation of snow. Good on you to check it personally.

 

[teucer]

shower head

Ron,

My transom shower has other on and off other then the handle. It has two handles, one for cold and one for hot right at the back. I just got the boat in october, never used the shower. After the mess, I checked the two handles, it looked like the cold was off but the hot water left on..... likely was like that since delivery of the boat. Did not notice since until you press the shower head handle, no water coming out.

I think that is why the entire system emtied out, including hot water.....

I double checked all other lines, and they all look good. I had two electric heaters going, inside temp was 10 degrees celcius, the only expose part was the handle. al the rest, including the hose leading to shower are in great shape....

Stu, I checked the boat on x-mas eve, not much snow in point roberts, my dodger, bimini and enclosre were all completely clear.... At least that was a good news after this tough week...

te