Emergency Closehauled Stop

[anchorclanker]

Heh, heh.......... I got it. Actually it was a very witty comment that livened up the thread in a delightful way. It is, however, little disturbing that you can remember such details........ are you a "trekkie"?

Ive always liked star trek, and thought Galaxy Quest was a joke from the get go and never watched it. It looked stupid. My wife had it when we met and suggested I watch it, I rolled my eyes and said okay fine. It took a while to get into it but it is really a neat movie and ive watched it many times now and still see new stuff and its just as funny.

OTOH, im still trying to figure out why the new Kirk didnt take the new Spock and the new ship, and blast back in time to take the red matter away from Nero and the old Spock before Nero could go 29 years into the future to blow up Vulcan. I never figured out why Picard didnt beam a nuke aboard the Borg ship and warp away before it detonated, either.

Yeah, three boat lengths at 10 knots with full sail, that dont give you much time to do much thinking, you need to be reacting. If the lead boat could swing in front of you, you have to be lee of him and should be able to bear away to lee with him. If your going to get that close you should be paying sharp attention and be thinking your next move. Freezing up sure isn't much of an option. If was three lengths back he could have made a fast cut to windward across his stern and come to get to windward of him.

 

[hewebb]

Try the first method that was suggested and see how fast you stop.

Ironhorse42: You're right and that's the best method to stop the boat on a dime. Cut the jib sheet and mainsheet loose, grab the boom and push it hard against the wind. I'ts like slaming on the brakes, throwing the tranny into low gear and pulling up the emergancy brake.

Question: What do you do with the tiller/rudder.

My boat is tiller equipped and I normally use a tiller clutch to hold the rudder when necessary.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Stopping a boat is like docking a boat.

Practice, practice, practice.

Go out and spend some time trying different things. Only way i know of to really learn how YOUR boat works.

 

[Joe]

Ive always liked star trek, and thought Galaxy Quest was a joke from the get go and never watched it. It looked stupid. ............ OTOH, im still trying to figure out why the new Kirk didnt take the new Spock and the new ship, and blast back in time to take the red matter away from Nero and the old Spock before Nero could go 29 years into the future to blow up Vulcan. I never figured out why Picard didnt beam a nuke aboard the Borg ship and warp away before it detonated, either.

Hah, hah, hah............. you're killing me, my brother. When my son and I saw the movie in the theater (he was 30 at the time) we sat in the coffee shop afterwards and had a similar discussion....... what a hoot... of course you recognize Tony Shalhoub (the actor Spock) as the star of the tv series Monk.

 

[kpgraci]

Good stuff on the stopping, but the Omega 13 comment (which I did not get at the time but do now) makes me wonder why it's called an Atomic 4. Pretty auspicious name for an engine.

 

[oday630]

I have an Oday 28 deep keel and I've been in a couple similar situations, one involving another boat the other a shallow underwater hump. In both situations stopping was really not an option. In both cases I was close hauled on port tack sailing about 5 knts. The other boat was ahead of me on port tack and on a beam reach he didn't give and I thought I had him beat anyway. We were both wrong. A tack or stopping would have crashed us both. so I chose to turn down wind and throw in a gybe, an almost 360. I felt by keeping the boat moving I could stay in control. You can't steer if you're not moving. Most boats I've been on can turn on a dime, just warn your crew to hang on before you do it. As for the underwater island, I knew it wasn't going to give and a tack would have been too close. I chose the same tactic but after the gybe I headed downwind away from land and found a quiet spot to changed my shorts.
Nothing will cause a spontaneous bowel evacuation like sailing close hauled heeled over about 30* into land. That was a close call.

Lesson learned: practice, be familiar what your boat can do. Know its capabilities and how it responds to quick changes. And have a backup plan for you backup plan.

 

[Don Guillette]

oday630: Practice is the key word and 70% of the sailors worldwide don't practice anything. They wait until the problem developes and then try to figure out the solution when time is very important and a mate doesn't have a lot of it.

Every once in a while I publish something like "what would you do IF this happens and you have 60 seconds to provide instuctions to your crew". It's not the sailors that answer the question, it's the sailors that say "oh crap, I have no idea what to do should that happen" and then they go on their merry way. I know a lot of sailors don't know what to do because I ask some general emergancy questions at seminars and most of the folks just look at each other, and I can see it in their eyes, they don't know what to do and think it won't happen to them, but it sure happened to someone as I don't make this stuff up.

 

[soldier1964]

the same thing happened to me but it was a sunfish that crossed in front on me. I still consider myself a newbie at sailing but I have been practicing on new skills. when this happened, my first thought was to avoid. so I let the jib go and cut hard into the wind. luckily I missed them by a good bit. I will have to try backing the sail some before this years season ends. thanks all of you...

 

[Cwoody]

Don,
Got to practice an "emergency close-hauled stop" (ECHS?) while crewing on a 28' race boat on a Saturday morning race out of AYC in Annapolis a few years back. Blowing like stink and raining.

Surrounded by larger boats we were heading into the windward mark on a starboard tack when we noticed a Naval Academy steel hulled 44' coming right into the mark on a port tack. The 44' dipped behind one of the larger boats only to be surprised by us. With so many boats in close proximity, we held our course and yelled for rights. Our "starboard" hails went into the wind and a serious collision was avoided only when our captain did an ECHS by slamming a tack onto port. With sails set hard we were knocked down on our starboard side as the sheets all back winded and we came to an abrupt stop laying on our starboard side. Where a moment before I was sitting high and dry, I was now knee deep in the water. The 44' passed in front and actually lightly scraped her starboard side our port bottom for it was now clearly exposed to them as they passed. I can still see all the wide eyed and speechless midshipmen as they sailed on... but retired from the race.

I am sure I learned a lesson from this event, but some times I wonder if I had been at the wheel, how I would have handled this situation.

CW

 

[Don Guillette]

Cwoody: Scares the crap out of you doesn't it!!!

Years ago myself and the skipper were on a Newport30 in a race in Long Beach, Ca. The Shoreline YC race boat crossed in front of us. We never saw them coming -- the deck sweeper jib was blocking out view even though we were constantly looking under it. Out of nowhere they were there and all we first saw was a streak of this yellow boat. We tried to turn to his stern but it was to late and we smashed right in their aft quarter -- our boat was IN their rear berth. We darn near sunk them.

 

[sinnettc]

-- the deck sweeper jib was blocking out view even though we were constantly looking under it.

As Andy Rooney would say "Didja ever wonder why . . . ' They can put teeny windows in the big genoas for the telltales, and a nice window in your blade (which you can see around/under) but not in the deck sweepers?

I had a minor scare this summer when I was out for a nice afternoon sail with the Admiral. We'd been sailing along for a while and I'd been checking under the genoa periodically when I suddenly heard voices ahead of us. I don't know where the other boat came from but I found myself overtaking them on a collision course. I took evasive action and ducked around them. Admittedly it was more than 3 boat lengths but their voices weren't raised when I heard them so we weren't too far away. If they hadn't been talking I might not have seen them until it was too late.

 

[Don Guillette]

Sinnettc: Here'a another one that I put under the catagory of "I wonder how I've survived to my present ripe old age". Again, it was in the Long Beach, Ca harbor. I was having trouble learning sail trim and felt racing would solve my problem. Unfortunately, it's not that easy to get a crew position on a proven boat. I tried, but once the skipper found out I didn't have any experience it was similiar to asking the best looking girl in Jr high to the prom -- "I'll get back to you" and she never did. It would be like asking RichH or Joe from San Deigo for a crew spot. Eventually, I found an advertistment for a pick up crew.

The first race was a foggy day and I was wondering what I was doing out there but a bunch of other boats were racing around the pre start in the fog so I felt it's OK. We are tear assing around and one of the crew ask's the skipper what that "tapping noise" was we were hearing in front of us? Some one figured out it was a crewman on a cargo ship chipping paint!! We darn near hit the cargo ship dead center.

I had a couple of other experiences with that boat until I decided I could learn sail trim better elsewhere --- maybe by myself.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

How to stop on a dime.

Don, you've been dancing around the real answer on your last few posts. To be concise, you want to hit the other boat amidships if you really want to stop. A glancing blow probably won't bring you to a full and complete stop!

Are you technically stopped if you hit the boat and rebound?

 

[Don Guillette]

Re: How to stop on a dime.

It's like in football - it's a measure of ones "forward progress" where he did stop and then was pushed backwards. I just pull that out of my you know where.

 

[sinnettc]

Here's an approach none of us considered. "borrowed" from SA

 

[anchorclanker]

Well, they are the same people who run with mad bulls down their streets. Not surprising they sail the same way. Ive heard they drive kinda like that too. Amazing that boat didnt get run over. They were very lucky.

 

[Sublime]

I'm new to these heavier boats. I know exactly what I'd do in my dinghy boat. With next to no momentum, just releasing the sails will stop a dinghy real quick.

In my Hunter, I'm not so sure. The momentum is the problem. It would depend on the exact situation really. There's a lot of things you see and consider without realizing when you're in a situation which can't be put down on paper.

I sail single handed a lot so I'll approach this as if that were the case. Besides, with three boat lengths charging full steam ahead, it could take that amount of time to give orders to the crew.

Because of my dinghy experience, It'd be second nature to release the main. If I have time, release the jib but since it's a fractional rig, the jib doesn't develop that much power. And my boat is pretty responsive in turns.

In this scenario, we're close hauled, correct (I can't see the original post from the reply window)? If I'm close hauled, then I can turn down wind. Or, I could tack and point to a reach in the other direction. I'd rather turn so that I'd go under his stern since he'd more likely start moving forward than backwards.

Any critiques are welcomed.

My rule of thumb is to keep other boats from getting that close and keep a good lookout. I don't like it when people come by real close. I once had another sailor come up along side me to wave, get less than a boat length in front of me, then cut across my bow. It pissed me off. The winds were light, so we weren't moving fast, but I saw a gust coming across the water.

Dad harped on me to always have an exit strategy in mind should things go south, even when driving a car. While learning, he would point and asked, "Where would you go if that car suddenly stopped?"

 

[Nodak7]

Don, I guess I will jump in and take a shot. With three boats lengths and speed you really would have no time to mess with the sheets.. Keel boats are great for turning in their own length so the only solution, in this case would be to turn the rudder 100% into the wind. Do a 180* turn and head the other direction. You maintain steerage and if necessary can do it again if there is room. If not do a Jib and bring you back.

I read thru this whole thread and holding my breath to hear what the 3 actions you are recommending........

 

[Don Guillette]

Nodak7: The methods that listers came up with and I concurred were cast off the main and jib sheet and the boat will turn into the wind. When in doubt as a begginer that's an easy choice. A better way would to just turn the boat into the wind. If the skipper had time and distance to spare he could ease the main and jib to slow down.

The method I like the best to stop the boat on a dime is to cut the jib sheet loose and use the mainsail as a brake. Just shove it out all the way and backwind it. The problem with that method, while I think it's the best way to stop on a dime, is you have to be prepared to do it. In other words, you can't sit there and mellow about what to do -- it must be done automatically.

75% of the sailors worldwide don't practice anything and when things start to go bad and the event takes on a life of it's own that's when sailors get into trouble and they make a bad situation worse by not knowing what to do. As a kid growing up on Narragansett Bay, RI, the ocean scared the crap out of me and I learned to respect it and that respect has carried through my entire boating and personal life. My wife always tells me, relax or go with the flow. I can't, my personality won't let me -- I sail, drive a car etc very defensively.

 

[Nodak7]

Nodak7: The methods that listers came up with and I concurred were cast off the main and jib sheet and the boat will turn into the wind. When in doubt as a begginer that's an easy choice. A better way would to just turn the boat into the wind. If the skipper had time and distance to spare he could ease the main and jib to slow down.

The method I like the best to stop the boat on a dime is to cut the jib sheet loose and use the mainsail as a brake. Just shove it out all the way and backwind it. The problem with that method, while I think it's the best way to stop on a dime, is you have to be prepared to do it. In other words, you can't sit there and mellow about what to do -- it must be done automatically.

75% of the sailors worldwide don't practice anything and when things start to go bad and the event takes on a life of it's own that's when sailors get into trouble and they make a bad situation worse by not knowing what to do. As a kid growing up on Narragansett Bay, RI, the ocean scared the crap out of me and I learned to respect it and that respect has carried through my entire boating and personal life. My wife always tells me, relax or go with the flow. I can't, my personality won't let me -- I sail, drive a car etc very defensively.

Don, a comment on the last methodology regarding the main. It is assumed that you can reach the boom to do that. However, for many with bimini's and other encumbrances that is difficult. Additionally, a large main (such as mine) also makes that a difficult and time consuming alternative.

I love these "what if's". Thanks