Electronics Upgrade

Feb 6, 1998
11,667
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Well Doug, here is the scoop on that....This installation has been in the planning stages since we bought the boat in April of last year. I was given permission to visit the shop during the check out to ensure that everything works before the install. I'm using Coast to Coast Marine and the owner Mike and his head guy Sheldon have been nothing but excellent to work with so far. Sheldon will be meeting with me at the boat to discuss how the autopilot bracket will be mounted in the aft lazerette. As a long time aviation technician I made it clear that I expect a professional installation to my specifications which I am clearly spelling out. Preparation is a big part of the game. We have discussed both major and minor details to ensure as few problems as possible. It is a 20 yr old boat and there are bound to be a few hitches along the way. I'm pleased that they are allowing me to do some of the install myself including pulling some of the wiring and installing the radar mast. They seem genuinely excited to see my project through to completion and I'm counting on them to see it all the way through.

I know everyone seems to think all marine professionals are horrible thieves but the truth is there are some very, very good ones.

I recently came from a training event, hosted by one of the large electronics manufacturers, where the question was asked, by a dealer in the audience, about how to get a private number just for pro's to use. It was then explained to us that close to 95% of the tech-support and warranty-support work load, for marine electronics, is spent dealing with "DIY/owner installed" electronics and that a private line would not shorten the wait time because they simply need more people to handle the load (something they are continually working on). They also stated that since the inception of NMEA 2K, where owners assume it is plug & play, they have had to boost the inside tech support teams by upwards of 30%.

I thought they were very interesting stats to say the least...
 

DougM

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Jul 24, 2005
2,242
Beneteau 323 Manistee, MI
Just to clarify, I certainly did not mean to paint a large number of installers with a broad brush. I know there are outstanding service people who know what they are doing and are worth the money they charge. There are a few, especially away from the bigger markets, that don't fit that category. Word of their reputation for poor workmanship tends to get around faster than word of those who truly know what they are doing.
Kimelmore appears to have located one of those better pros who is willing to seemingly work with him rather than simply for him.
 
Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
I like the idea that this particular firm is looking at all the possible pitfalls before work is started rather than wait until that 'Oh Sh!t moment". They are also being very careful to include me on all of the planning and decisions. I met with the stainless fabricator today to discuss and decide on the size and placement of the tube from the deck up to the equipment pod. I'll start running power wires etc next week. I'll be adding a terminal block for the ground terminals that will go forward to my new ground block. I will also add a terminal block for the additional circuits I'm adding. Those will all be readily accessible in the aft lazerette. My plan is to be able to power the navigation, steaming, cockpit and deck lights from the Electrical panel or the pedestal. I also want a kill switch for the autopilot on the pedestal, (it's an aviation thing).
 
Jan 25, 2011
2,391
S2 11.0A Anacortes, WA
Being a former airplane designer, the "autopilot disconnect" switch works well. However airplanes dont necessarily have lines, sheets, clothes etc flinging around...Is your "kill" switch going to be guarded? Airplanes tell you if/when autopilot is disconnected...Boats not necessarily so..depends on system architecture, alarm settings, and what wire is interrupted. I'm not sure if I turned autopilot power off if alarms would go off. I'd have to try it. Maybe the absence of data would do it..something to try on your bench checkout.
 
Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
My plan is for a guarded switch located on the pod right next to the autopilot control head. I'm going to add an idiot LED light that will remain on anytime the autopilot is receiving power from the buss. ...famous hanger joke....."sir...the switch must be in the OH EN position to operate"...it would be even more funny except for the fact that I have actually spoken those words to a pilot MORE THAN ONCE.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
[QUOTE="kimelmore,.... I also want a kill switch for the autopilot on the pedestal, .[/QUOTE]

I assume you mean an on/off switch. I'm sure the unit has one built in.
 
Jan 25, 2011
2,391
S2 11.0A Anacortes, WA
I'm sorta wondering why a kill switch right next to control head that controls power etc..Seems like it's more wire terminations to worry about..
 
Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
I want a separate switch to turn power off to the autopilot control head in case of malfunction that is independent of the unit itself. In an aircraft it is not unusual to have multiple ways of killing power to the autopilot. I have had the autopilot on my old boat suddenly veer off course while I was tending to something else. With a remote actuator it's not as simple as a flip of a handle. One must be able to kill power quickly.
 
Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
We are moving along on the project. I finished the tower install which included adding a backing plate inside the hull to support the lower bracket. I installed the bus bars in the aft lazerette along with a new CB panel at the Nav Station. I'll be ordering a waterproof project box next week for my helm switch panel and adding wires for cockpit lighting and swim step light. I'll be checking MarineBeam along with other vendors to find an LED light to hang from the tower to light up the swim step.
 

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Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
I finally got around to firing the first company that I hired to do the installs. It took me a while to figure out that they didn't have a clue as to what they were doing and the work they did was subpar. An example was the compass install. I had a place in mind directly on the centerline of the boat. ( a perfect place actually ). I was handed the compass and it was mounted on a square mounting plate totally off center by about 1/2". I have hired another well recommended firm with good references and to top it off the owner/foreman is a former electronics engineer who has his own sailboat. Hooray!. Things are moving along. He is very pleased with my wiring installations so far. I finally finished my 'antenna farm' so here are a couple of images.
 

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Feb 6, 1998
11,667
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I wouldn't bet on it!
I do it all the time, especially with certain brands. Just too many QC issues, with some brands, to not do it.

Just ask my customer who had me do 95% of a dual station install what happened when he had the dome shipped direct to the boat yard, something I asked him not to do, so I could test it first. It was a faulty radar cable which required a full de-rig & un-step/re-step and re-install of an $80.00 cable. Total bill was huge $$$$$ for something that could have been spotted in seconds..
 
Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
Just to bring this up to date. I fired Coast to Coast for several reasons but mostly because I began to smell something wrong. I do know that they did hook everything up and claim that it all worked. They registered the AIS. The problems began when they described what they were going to do to install the autopilot actuator. It was scary. They had plans to install a huge 8" wide steel I beam with a steel backing plates on the inside and outside of my hull with a long strut to support it. I then started to ask more questions and the deeper they dug the hole the more I realized I had to get another firm to finish the work. At any rate I am more than capable of running the wires and installing the various components. The important thing is to take the time to do it right. If you don't have the time to do it right, you certainly don't have the time to do it over again. Today I finished installing the cable clams on the stern. I got them from PYI in Washington. I'm very pleased with the outcome. I tested with a hose and had no leaks even with the hose on full blast. This weekend I will immerse myself in the aft lazerette and do some more wiring installations. I'm leaving the final hookups for the installer to avoid warranty issues. I'm hoping they will do the actuator install next week. Photos are of the cable clams on the starboard aft transom at the base of the radar tower. I made sure to loop the wires so water doesn't hang around. :waycool:
 

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Feb 6, 1998
11,667
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
The problems began when they described what they were going to do to install the autopilot actuator. It was scary. They had plans to install a huge 8" wide steel I beam with a steel backing plates on the inside and outside of my hull with a long strut to support it.
Wow! Have they not heard of fiberglass?
 
Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
I was shocked. I didn't even find the words to speak my mind I just shut and waited for him to leave. The guy I just hired to do this has done several autopilot actuator installs on Catalina's recently and I could tell he was holding his tongue when I told him. Right away he said "don't think I'll be needing that steel I beam he got you". I was the one laughing at that point. He has spoken with the folks at Catalina who assured him that the swim step is adequately structurally sound to support a Type 2 actuator for my boat. He will be adding an epoxied backing plate of wood and fiberglass. Then he will drill the holes., fill them with epoxy and then re-drill for the bolts. That will remove any problems with possible water intrusion into the structure. I will be insisting that he uses butyl tape that I got from you to install the bolts like I did for the radar tower install. Quick question. I installed the
 
Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
Quick question. I installed the cable clams I got from PYI. They didn't call out any sealant under the rubber seal when I installed the bases. I went ahead and installed them with no sealant. Am I going to regret this?
 
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
Quick question. I installed the cable clams I got from PYI. They didn't call out any sealant under the rubber seal when I installed the bases. I went ahead and installed them with no sealant. Am I going to regret this?
No. Lots of products call for installing with only the rubber gasket. Smartplug and Edson are two products I installed that call for only the rubber gasket. Just do not overtighten and deform or injure the gasket.
 
Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
Update: I went to install the Remote compass this weekend. I found 3 of the 4 locking tabs on the mount broken off and the rubber gasket missing from the kit. Looks like Coast to Coast put it all together trying to figure out what they were doing and then broke the tabs trying to get it apart. We have a meeting with the owner Wednesday morning to try and get some monetary relief and return the heavy "I" beam that cost me $$$ that I won't be using to mount the autopilot actuator. I will also be asking that they furnish a replacement mount. All in all the final installation will be started the end of this week or the start of next week. I can't wait to get back on the water.
 

obdoor

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Jul 13, 2015
39
Pearson 33 NC
Have you checked Raymarines customer service. if you have an issue and your installer is not around good luck
 
Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
Update : Wiring is pretty much done. Install will begin next week. Coast to Coast will return price of the heavy "I" beam and furnish a new remote compass mount for the EV-1 sensor. I moved the ground cable from the battery post where the "certified" Raymarine install tech INSISTED it belonged to my ground cable buss bar beneath the cabin floor where Raymarine's own wiring diagrams suggested it be put. Not a big problem since I made sure there was plenty of cable when I installed it. I was going to move it anyway after he was done. I'm leaving the final hookups for the Raymarine folks I hired to do the job. Again, they came highly recommended from others I have met. I made the final positive wire connections at the circuit breaker panel. The fuse panel for the individual circuits is in the aft lazerette. These are the two power Terminals, the small one is for the autopilot and the larger one on the left is for the instruments and chartplotter. It has two separate feeds so the "B" bus will be for auxiliary systems like lights and such.
 

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