Electronics - they're all the same Chinese toys (?)

Oct 9, 2008
1,742
Bristol 29.9 Dana Point
My technophobic wife still prefers Win98 SE...but I agree with you, Joe and Apex, regarding consumerism/planned obsolescence.

To Skipper, start up a business. Good luck!
I've started businesses. Founded and ran a sporting goods store for many years, then sold it. I'm not an electronics manufacturing expert. Why would I do something so unbelievably stupid as starting a business I know nothing about? The humor in the sarcasm is lost on ridiculousness.

This was not my question. Nobody gets the question:

Is there a reputable electronics supplier with gear not made in China? I would prefer Japanese, US or European.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I can vividly remember in the 70's and 80's when Japanese produced product was considered "junk" we even called their motorcycles "Rice Burners". Funny how they actually built BETTER & more reliable cars than the US as well as Motorcycles among other items. Today "Made in Japan" is a sign of quality...

Those same Japanese auto makers, who we used to accuse of building "Rice Burners" are still cleaning the clocks of the rest of the world on reliability some 35 years later and building many of these cars on US soil.

I have ridden in a Chinese made SUV and was very, very impressed. LOTS of premium quality stuff comes out of China today but it is a you get what you pay for sort of game. If you want the Chinese to produce a quality product you pay them to do so. If you want an elcheapo eBay / scammer knock-off product they will build that too.

I am a recovering audiophile and the US buyer drove US audio companies straight out of business. The Asian market could duplicate the look and feel of high end audio components but rarely if ever could duplicate the all important sound.

No problem the US population voted with their wallets and bought crappy sounding Asian made audio components and drove all but a hand full of US manufacturers out of business or off shore to compete. The Asian components that could compete were priced similarly to US made...

For a company to produce a US made line of marine instruments they would go belly up before they even got off the ground. Boaters are simple "thrifty" heck most complain about the cost of the Chinese made stuff we have now. Double or triple that price to build it in the US and now you are pretty much dead in the water.

I try to manufacture everything I produce and sell here in the US. I do this simply to support US jobs. Alternators, Bed-It Tape, my stuffing box packing, etc. etc.. This is not because of quality, the Asians could build exactly what I want, at less cost, but what I desire is to do my small part to support US jobs when I can and where it is financially smart for me to do.

For me it is not "smart" to buy myself a US made or European auto. Been there done that for far too many years and my wallet still has the scars from it..

The Japanese have the reliability market nailed. IF or WHEN the US can get their butts in gear to build reliable cars again then I WILL be the first in line to buy them. For now we simply don't compete on reliability or on standing behind the product so I have to act with my wallet in a way that financially makes sense to my family.

That means we currently drive Japanese made cars. Do I like it, NO. Does it make financial sense for me and my family ABSOLUTELY.... Last year, between both cars, (one with 135K and one with 165K) we spent $223.00 in non-routine maintenance. This is not far off our "average" year with Honda's and Toyota's in non-routine maintenance....

When we drove European and American cars with similar mileage we were often spending $500.00 to 1k per month, per car. My wife really wants another Euro car, she loves the way they feel, and I keep saying "Does it say Honda or Toyota on it.?";) I then pull up the spread sheets for car repairs on the BMW's, Volvo's, Mercedes, Audi etc.. and she just relents.... Easy to forget how much you spent to keep those cars running when you've been driving a Japanese car..

FWIW I find the current crop of navigation instruments more reliable than many of the older brands even ones that were US made. The water proofing is better, the user interface is leaps and bounds better, the screens are better, power consumption is lower etc. etc... Most are retired due to lack of support (by a US company) or because they simply become outdated like a computer.

I mention companies like Rogue Power Technologies on here quite often. Their MPPT controller is built right here in the US. They are tremendous products yet a tad more expensive than a Chinese knock off MPPT.

Which MPPT controllers do you think sell more often to sailors the elcheapo knock offs from China or the Rogue MPPT? I would say it is safe to bet that not a single boat owner on this site uses a Rogue MPPT yet a LOT of sailors have big solar arrays.

I have many customers I have steered towards the EXCELLENT little Genasun MPPT controllers, also built in the USA, but when I get to the boat I often find an eBay special made in China. Some of these "knock offs" are not even MPPT yet wear an MPPT sticker...

My point here is that the buying public DEMAND elcheapo products and it makes it very, very difficult for a company paying US labor to compete with a "direct from Zhejiang" eBay special...

Maybe if more sailors demanded US made products, and were willing to pay the premium, we would have more of them to choose from.......
 
Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
I have owned 7 inflatable dingies over the years. US,French,Chinese and others. Hypalon and PVC. Cheapest and best one is Chinese! Chief
 
Feb 20, 2011
8,048
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
snip-Why would I do something so unbelievably stupid as starting a business I know nothing about? The humor in the sarcasm is lost on ridiculousness. -snip
Sorry. I suppose we could use a sarcasm font, as my "start a business, good luck" comment was exactly that.

But I do hope that you find an answer to your question, and I hope you like the answer, too.
 
Oct 9, 2008
1,742
Bristol 29.9 Dana Point
I can vividly remember in the 70's and 80's when Japanese produced product was considered "junk" we even called their motorcycles "Rice Burners". Funny how they actually built BETTER & more reliable cars than the US as well as Motorcycles among other items. Today "Made in Japan" is a sign of quality...

Those same Japanese auto makers, who we used to accuse of building "Rice Burners" are still cleaning the clocks of the rest of the world on reliability some 35 years later and building many of these cars on US soil.

I have ridden in a Chinese made SUV and was very, very impressed. LOTS of premium quality stuff comes out of China today but it is a you get what you pay for sort of game. If you want the Chinese to produce a quality product you pay them to do so. If you want an elcheapo eBay / scammer knock-off product they will build that too.

I am a recovering audiophile and the US buyer drove US audio companies straight out of business. The Asian market could duplicate the look and feel of high end audio components but rarely if ever could duplicate the all important sound.

No problem the US population voted with their wallets and bought crappy sounding Asian made audio components and drove all but a hand full of US manufacturers out of business or off shore to compete. The Asian components that could compete were priced similarly to US made...

For a company to produce a US made line of marine instruments they would go belly up before they even got off the ground. Boaters are simple "thrifty" heck most ***** about the cost of the Chinese made stuff we have now. Double or triple that price to build it in the US and now you are dead in the water.

I try to build everything I produce and sell here in the US to support US jobs. Alternators, Bed-It Tape, my stuffing box packing, etc. etc.. This is not because of quality, the Asians could build exactly what I want, at less cost, but what I desire is to do my small part to support US jobs when I can and where it is financially smart for me to do.

For me it is not "smart" to buy myself a US made or European auto. Been there done that for far too many years. The Japanese have the reliability market nailed. IF or WHEN the US can get their butts in gear to build reliable cars again then I WILL buy them.For now we simply don't compete on reliability or on standing behind the product so I have to act with my wallet in a way that financially makes sense to my family and that means we drive Japanese made cars.

FWIW I find the current crop of navigation instruments more reliable than many of the older brands even ones that were US made. The water proofing is better, the user interface is leaps and bounds better, the screens are better, power consumption is lower etc. etc...

I mention companies like Rogue Power Technologies on here quite often. Their MPPT controller is built right here in the US. They are tremendous products yet a tad more expensive than a Chinese knock off MPPT.

Which ones do you thinks sells more often to sailors the elcheapo knock offs from China or the Rogue MPPT? I would say it is safe to bet that not a single boat owner on this site uses a Rogue MPPT yet a LOT of sailors have big solar arrays.

I have many customers I have steered towards the EXCELLENT little Genasun MPPT controllers, also built in the USA, but when I get to the boat I often find an eBay special made in China. Some of these "knock offs" are not even MPPT yet wear an MPPT sticker...

My point here is that the buying public DEMAND elcheapo products and it makes it very, very difficult for a company paying US labor to compete with a "direct from Zhejiang" eBay special...

Maybe if more sailors demanded US made products we would have more of them to choose from.......
Excellent.

I'm demanding the products :D But I'm likely too few. I wish DataMarine made a good chartplotter. Mostly I marvel at the fact that all the gear in West Marine is starting to look and operate the same. Our equipment has been invaded. Now only the boat is pedigree.
 
Oct 9, 2008
1,742
Bristol 29.9 Dana Point
I am a recovering audiophile and the US buyer drove US audio companies straight out of business. The Asian market could duplicate the look and feel of high end audio components but rarely if ever could duplicate the all important sound.

No problem the US population voted with their wallets and bought crappy sounding Asian made audio components and drove all but a hand full of US manufacturers out of business or off shore to compete. The Asian components that could compete were priced similarly to US made...

.....
btw I still have my Carver amp and pre-amps from the late eighties. Still sound great, and I love that I only had to buy them once.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Excellent.

I'm demanding the products :D But I'm likely too few. I wish DataMarine made a good chartplotter. Mostly I marvel at the fact that all the gear in West Marine is starting to look and operate the same. Our equipment has been invaded. Now only the boat is pedigree.
You may be demanding them but you are not letting your wallet do the talking. IIRC you recently bought a Raymarine SPX-5 wheel pilot. CPT makes a US built wheel pilot that you did not buy.:confused::confused: If you are going to "demand" US products why not let your wallet do the talking to back up the demands...;) We can only effect a change if we start with ourselves....
 
Oct 17, 2011
2,809
Ericson 29 Southport..
Maine Sail said:
I try to build everything I produce and sell here in the US to support US jobs. Alternators, Bed-It Tape, my stuffing box packing, etc. etc.. This is not because of quality, the Asians could build exactly what I want, at less cost, but what I desire is to do my small part to support US jobs when I can and where it is financially smart for me to do.
I mean, there it is in a nutshell. Simple enough to throw some abstract garbage opinion like, "Well, uh, I bet you your car has offshore parts".
Well Duhhhh.. Of course there is no escaping this entirely. Wearing loincloths and walking the streets barefoot is the only alternative. And of course I wish all me stuff was U.S. made, even though I technically am not either. But it never hurts to try. Not being that poor, cheap, or stupid, I always choose US when I can. And as Maine said, the consumer has spoken. And you get what you pay for typically. No doubt the buttons on the X5 control head REEK cheap. But to replace it with what, a sundial and abacus?
Yep, already too late. We have sold our soul. And have met the enemy. And it emphatically is within..

I would wish the OP the VERY best of luck in this dilemma, of which I have no particular answer. (Well kinda, but I ain't sayin' here). Better bone up on technology and services though, that's all that's left. Sort of..
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
btw I still have my Carver amp and pre-amps from the late eighties. Still sound great, and I love that I only had to buy them once.
If it is from the late 80's it is highly likely it is made in Japan. Even Bob responded to market pricing pressure by building product in Japan... He started building in Japan around the early "magnetic field" days eg: Carver cubes etc.... Some of his stuff was US Made but a lot of it was Japanese...
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,240
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Who complains about high prices?

Skipper, weren't you the guy complaining about prices in Annapolis for canvas work? :D (sorry, couldn't resist). I think most of us are guilty of having alligator arms ... we simply can't reach our deep pockets!
 
Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
Maine Sail: I am sitting here listening to my TV with my 1950's 30" high, hardwood encased Pioneer speakers. I bought them used in early '60's. No, I don't want to sell them! ha Chief
 
Feb 20, 2011
8,048
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
Maine Sail: I am sitting here listening to my TV with my 1950's 30" high, hardwood encased Pioneer speakers. I bought them used in early '60's. No, I don't want to sell them! ha Chief
Unless you're listening to vinyl or magnetic tape, you're likely listening to a digital source.
Check out the frequency response graphs inherent to analog vs. digital.

But I do like good speakers. :D
 
Oct 9, 2008
1,742
Bristol 29.9 Dana Point
You may be demanding them but you are not letting your wallet do the talking. IIRC you recently bought a Raymarine SPX-5 wheel pilot. CPT makes a US built wheel pilot that you did not buy.:confused::confused: If you are going to "demand" US products why not let your wallet do the talking to back up the demands...;) We can only effect a change if we start with ourselves....
Didn't know it was made in China till I got it. Also hadn't yet had this conversation. My ignorance.
 
Oct 9, 2008
1,742
Bristol 29.9 Dana Point
If it is from the late 80's it is highly likely it is made in Japan. Even Bob responded to market pricing pressure by building product in Japan... He started building in Japan around the early "magnetic field" days eg: Carver cubes etc.... Some of his stuff was US Made but a lot of it was Japanese...
Says "Made in USA" on the back.
 
Oct 9, 2008
1,742
Bristol 29.9 Dana Point
Skipper, weren't you the guy complaining about prices in Annapolis for canvas work? :D (sorry, couldn't resist). I think most of us are guilty of having alligator arms ... we simply can't reach our deep pockets!
OMG , stay focused.

Canvas is not electronic equipment. Being grossly over-charged for professional work due to income-geography is not akin to wanting better quality electronic equipment and being willing to pay for it.

What is with you people and your ganging up, using want-to-be cleverness? The original question was quite simple.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I've started businesses. Founded and ran a sporting goods store for many years, then sold it. I'm not an electronics manufacturing expert. Why would I do something so unbelievably stupid as starting a business I know nothing about? The humor in the sarcasm is lost on ridiculousness.

This was not my question. Nobody gets the question:

Is there a reputable electronics supplier with gear not made in China? I would prefer Japanese, US or European.
I'm mentioned NKE in my first post.

Also look at UK-built NASA marine. Kind of like a European datamarine, but still very much in business. And you can buy the stuff here at Ultimate Passage.

http://www.nasamarine.com

Oh, and chill out.
 
Oct 3, 2011
75
Tayana 52 Jax
It's only a question of time before the Chinese price themselves out of the market. You only have to follow companies like Nike to find where the next 'China' is. Wait long enough and electronics will once again be US made. Isn't the Apple MacBook made in the US?
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Says "Made in USA" on the back.
You got the good stuff then!! Bob Carver had differing lines and differing manufacturing points. His Japanese stuff was pretty good but IMHO lacked the warmth of his US made product especially in the preamps..
 
Nov 24, 2012
586
I've started businesses. Founded and ran a sporting goods store for many years, then sold it. I'm not an electronics manufacturing expert. Why would I do something so unbelievably stupid as starting a business I know nothing about? The humor in the sarcasm is lost on ridiculousness. This was not my question. Nobody gets the question: Is there a reputable electronics supplier with gear not made in China? I would prefer Japanese, US or European.
Skipper

Until recently I was in the electronics business for a couple of decades. The 'thing' you have to also take into consideration is even though final assembly of the product is in the US or another preferred country, the insides - semi's, capacitors, diodes, etc etc will most likely be made in China, Vietnam, or another low cost country.

The exception to this is product destined for the military, aerospace and medical markets in the US.