Electronics refit on Irwin 43

kappykaplan · Jun 2, 2015

I upgraded from a Raymarine wheel pilot to their type linear drive. At the same time, got a deal too good to pass up on E90W hybrid displays to go with a new radar. I find that the linear drive gives me plenty of time to get the sails balanced after a tack. Also, I trust it to hold course when I'm taking a reef sailing solo. The AP is also interfaced with the Raymarine wind instrument.

AnsleyS · Jun 2, 2015

I have recently designed and installed a whole system for a friend including a 12 inch MFD, a 9 inch MFD, a 4 inch MFD, autopilot, AIS, Radar, VHF radio with second station, fathometer, Sirius weather radio and chart overlay, stereo music, wifi, and TV. All of these were integrated together on a trawler.

I have just a few thoughts for you as you design your system. I would suggest that you design your system without a thought about brand names. Just figure out what you want and how it will be used and what data will be generated, transmitted and used by each component. As you get an idea of what you would like then start looking at the brand names and see what they each offer. Be careful when you get to Raymarine as I have found that they are very proprietary in their data approach and their support after the sale is poor. Just try to get their tech support on the phone. Navico is the big dog in the marine electronics market and their support is usually good. Their products, B&G, Simrad and Lowrance are marketed at different segments of the marine world. I installed Simrad but as a sailor you may want to look at B&G. If you do a lot of offshore sailing do not hesitate to oversize the autopilot drive.

After you have designed the system the way you want it and picked a brand name, contact the tech support for the brand. They have computer programs which will design the system and help you with data flow and cables. This is a great help. Also don't buy cables until everything is installed. Some components come with cables and cables come in premade sizes. Wait until everything is mounted and you can measure for the cable lengths that you will need.

Also you may get a large discount in the prices of the gear if you do a system together from the same brand and the same vendor. We got a 20% discount buying the whole system together but it was a $10,000 system.

Good luck and have fun. Feel free to ask questions. We would all like to hear about the progress of your project.

Cheers

Ansley Sawyer
SV Pacem

Stu Jackson · Jun 2, 2015

Ansley's input is superb.

What a new-to-you boat may need for electronics is a very subjective issue and his approach is very good.

Also, keep in mind that a new-to-you boat needs a robust and bullet-proof electrical system to support those electronics.

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Jun 2, 2015

What type of sailing are you planning to do (i.e. day sailing, short coastal hops, offshore, what crew size, etc.)?

Wheel pilots will work great for many applications and are much cheaper and easier to install. Linear drive units are more robust but I have seen recent discussions that think these may contribute to rudder failure (not saying I agree but it was a compelling case). IIRC Maine Sail purchased a Raymarine wheel pilot unit with the intent to keep the computer but eventually upgrade to a linear drive unit but has kept the wheel pilot for years with no issues.

Your new boat has a spade rudder which is far more efficient than skeg hung or barn-door style rudders. So a wheel pilot would probably do fine.

I have a wheel pilot tied into my chart plotter and wind instrument. I have never tried to let it steer a plotted course because we don't use the chart plotter. It's old and outdated. But I love the tie in with the wind instrument. I use the hold position to apparent wind function all the time. I have tacked with the autopilot. It's not full proof and takes some work to get down but it does work in light to moderate air. I haven't tried it in anything over 20 kts of wind.

We have hit seas too rough for the wheel pilot. But I don't know if I would use any autopilot in 8-12 steep seas with over 30 kts of wind. Hand steering is just better in those instances as you can react to the actual wave face rather than hold a steady course.

Good luck and fair winds,

Jesse

woodster · Jun 2, 2015

mike garmin has come out with a lot of new stuff just recently you may want to take a look

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Jun 4, 2015

malyea said:
Good point - can you offer any specifics that you consider important to a "robust and bullet-proof" electrical system?

Read everything from Maine Sail!

Start with these:

1/BOTH/2/OFF Switches Thoughts & Musings

Battery Fusing

Wiring & Installing a Battery Monitor

Installing a Marine Battery Charger

Marine Wire Termination

Making Your Own Battery Cables

What is a Deep Cycle Battery?

Installation & Orientation of Flooded Batteries

Installing a Small Marine Solar System

Also spend some time on the Catalina 34 IA Tech Wiki. Start with the electrical 101 posts.

Here are the posts from my blog about how I pulled all of this info together.

If you have electrical questions in the future, the best place to ask them is the Musings of Maine Sail section.

Good luck and fair winds,

Jesse

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Jun 5, 2015

malyea said:
Re: Electronics refit on Irwin 43
Talk, research, reading and rumination has gotten me to the following electronics refit plan -
- all components to be NMEA 2000 protocol
- chart plotter (probably a MFD)
- AP (robust, over sized below deck linear drive)
- 4G broadband radar
- AIS transceiver
- transducers for depth/speed/temp/sonar fish finder
- electronic wind indicator
- two dedicated i50/i60 style instruments (one for wind angle/speed and one for boat speed)
- satcom (maybe SSB in the future)
- EPIRB

Cockpit display plan is to have one CP/MFD at the helm to primarily show standard nav chart info, boat location, overlay radar display, AIS targets, fish finder, depth, and water temp.

The i50/i60 style instruments will be mounted either side of companionway - one for apparent wind angle/speed and the other for boat speed. These are my two primary instruments for driving the boat. Alternatively I suspect this data can be displayed on CP/MFD.

I'm a bit undecided what repeaters to have at the nav station below. If I install an onboard wifi hub it can transmit all CP/MFD displays to an iPad anywhere below and I can keep the AP remote control at the nav station along side the base VHF and Satcom.

I want all of the major components to be from a single manufacturer to eliminate tech rep finger pointing when system commissioning problems develop.

Not 100% decided - but I'm leaning heavily towards Simrad/B&G because both their APs and broadband radar units seem to get very good reviews from users. Raymarine is my second choice because I have concerns about their proprietary SeaTalk wiring technology integrating with NMEA 2000 protocol. Garmin is my last choice cause I rate their radar and APs as least tested as they're newest on the market.

Thanks for any thoughts you may like to offer on this plan.

I don't know how much you paid for the boat but you have about $15-20K here plus installation. From what I know of Irwins (admittedly little except having spent some time on two this winter owned by fellow liveaboards) you are at about 20% of the value of the boat or more. That is fine if this fits your long term use but don't expect to see that much return on the investment if you go to sell the boat.

What are your plans for the boat? Are you going to head out cruising on this? How soon and to where?

woodster · Jun 5, 2015

JK_Boston_Catalina310 said:
I don't know how much you paid for the boat but you have about $15-20K here plus installation. From what I know of Irwins (admittedly little except having spent some time on two this winter owned by fellow liveaboards) you are at about 20% of the value of the boat or more. That is fine if this fits your long term use but don't expect to see that much return on the investment if you go to sell the boat.

JK that return in investment you speak of is non existent just like one on the boat monetarily speaking ...the return is in using the boat not on gains or losses ...the only return i see is if you use the boat say 3 times a week or more and not just twice a month or even less ....its just like a auto with power windows they cost a lot but really don't create value in the long run ...having all that electronics is like flying vfr or ifr...

Davidasailor26 · Jun 5, 2015

malyea said:
Re: Electronics refit on Irwin 43 Talk, research, reading and rumination has gotten me to the following electronics refit plan - - all components to be NMEA 2000 protocol - chart plotter (probably a MFD) - AP (robust, over sized below deck linear drive) - 4G broadband radar - AIS transceiver - transducers for depth/speed/temp/sonar fish finder - electronic wind indicator - two dedicated i50/i60 style instruments (one for wind angle/speed and one for boat speed) - satcom (maybe SSB in the future) - EPIRB Cockpit display plan is to have one CP/MFD at the helm to primarily show standard nav chart info, boat location, overlay radar display, AIS targets, fish finder, depth, and water temp. The i50/i60 style instruments will be mounted either side of companionway - one for apparent wind angle/speed and the other for boat speed. These are my two primary instruments for driving the boat. Alternatively I suspect this data can be displayed on CP/MFD. I'm a bit undecided what repeaters to have at the nav station below. If I install an onboard wifi hub it can transmit all CP/MFD displays to an iPad anywhere below and I can keep the AP remote control at the nav station along side the base VHF and Satcom. I want all of the major components to be from a single manufacturer to eliminate tech rep finger pointing when system commissioning problems develop. Not 100% decided - but I'm leaning heavily towards Simrad/B&G because both their APs and broadband radar units seem to get very good reviews from users. Raymarine is my second choice because I have concerns about their proprietary SeaTalk wiring technology integrating with NMEA 2000 protocol. Garmin is my last choice cause I rate their radar and APs as least tested as they're newest on the market. Thanks for any thoughts you may like to offer on this plan.

This is pretty much the setup that came with our new Beneteau last year, minus the radar and epirb. Ours are all Simrad; newer model Beneteau's are B&G. Both are the same overarching company so the hardware is quite similar. B&G does have some better sailing specific functions in its MFD. I've been pretty pleased with the setup overall, although the original versions of the software were pretty buggy until we installed the latest upgrades to everything. I added the Simrad wifi module so that I can see the MFD screen on any phone/tablet, and also use 3rd party apps to see the NMEA data.