I'm wanting to finally break into the 21st century and am looking for info and recommendations. I've read the info at the NOAA web site and read the ads for Maptech Electronic charts. Are they better than the free ones from NOAA? Are you able to electronically plot waypoints and routes on the electronic charts on your laptop? Maptech sells e-chart kits, and also separate charting software. Do you need both? I'm so confused! Perhaps I should just stay in the good ol' 19th century with my paper charts! Any info is greatly appreciated!
- Status
Ernie, I know 3 people who have their laptop and GPS connected together and use Maptech charts on the laptop. It is amazing. You can plot your course before leaving and then just follow the lines on the laptop. You can also split the screen and have a chart on one side and a satellite picture of the area you are in on the other side. You can plot your course on the laptop in your house, upload it to your GPS and then just take your GPS on your boat. The possibilities are endless. We cruised the St. Lawrence river (in between NY-Canada)using a pre-plotted course on a 40 foot house boat. Its all rocks in this river and the course was perfect. Usually you have to buy the chart for the area you are boating in. I don't know anything about free charts from NOAA.
ENC's
I have been watching NOAA's ENC site for many months now. I've downloaded and played with some of the freebie viewers and my conclusion is that they are not yet quite ready for prime time. They are adding new charts almost every day, but still don't have my area covered. The ENC's are not strictly "charts". They are a data-base from which the software viewer can construct a chart. Thus the viewer can show as much or as little detail as desired. I personally don't like the appearance of the charts as displayed by the viewers I've played with. (I would much rather use the Maptech raster charts.) Fugawi had a free viewer on its site a few months ago, but the last time I looked I couldn't find it. (None of the free viewers have GPS capability) I think it is the wave of the future, but for now I will stick with Maptech raster charts. Fugawi has a GPS capable viewer: http://www.fugawi.com/docs/navframe.html
I have been watching NOAA's ENC site for many months now. I've downloaded and played with some of the freebie viewers and my conclusion is that they are not yet quite ready for prime time. They are adding new charts almost every day, but still don't have my area covered. The ENC's are not strictly "charts". They are a data-base from which the software viewer can construct a chart. Thus the viewer can show as much or as little detail as desired. I personally don't like the appearance of the charts as displayed by the viewers I've played with. (I would much rather use the Maptech raster charts.) Fugawi had a free viewer on its site a few months ago, but the last time I looked I couldn't find it. (None of the free viewers have GPS capability) I think it is the wave of the future, but for now I will stick with Maptech raster charts. Fugawi has a GPS capable viewer: http://www.fugawi.com/docs/navframe.html
Cap'n
I purchased the "Cap'n" from Captain Jacks. It has "planning charts. I then purchased the chart cd for my area. When I moved from Texas the Miami, I bought the new area for East Coast of FL and the Keys. I also got the Sat Photos of the Keys. When I get to port or Angel fish creek, I split screen w/ chart and photo. It's pretty neat. I normally keep my laptop at home, but bring it aboard for longer trips. Marc BTW I used to keep my Columbia 26 then Bene 350 at Portofino Harbor for about 10 years...
I purchased the "Cap'n" from Captain Jacks. It has "planning charts. I then purchased the chart cd for my area. When I moved from Texas the Miami, I bought the new area for East Coast of FL and the Keys. I also got the Sat Photos of the Keys. When I get to port or Angel fish creek, I split screen w/ chart and photo. It's pretty neat. I normally keep my laptop at home, but bring it aboard for longer trips. Marc BTW I used to keep my Columbia 26 then Bene 350 at Portofino Harbor for about 10 years...
Compatability Problems
Be careful about buying e-charts that are campatable with your GPS. I had Maptech charts that I used in my home computer to plan cruises and plot paper charts. I got a Magellan Meridian Marine hand held GPS for Christmas last year. I have bought accessories to download waypoints, and routes prepared with the Maptech software to the GPS without any success. I spoke with the Magellan rep at the boat show in October. He told me that the Magellan GPS will only communicate with Magellan MapSend charts. I am not going to spend another couple of hundred $ to replace my Maptech charts.
Be careful about buying e-charts that are campatable with your GPS. I had Maptech charts that I used in my home computer to plan cruises and plot paper charts. I got a Magellan Meridian Marine hand held GPS for Christmas last year. I have bought accessories to download waypoints, and routes prepared with the Maptech software to the GPS without any success. I spoke with the Magellan rep at the boat show in October. He told me that the Magellan GPS will only communicate with Magellan MapSend charts. I am not going to spend another couple of hundred $ to replace my Maptech charts.
Magellan Rep is FOS
Magellan's GPS communicate using NEMA data strings. This is an industry standard. Check your com port configurations. Magellans's Data Send software will create a conflict that you have to manually change. Then, no problem, works fine with Maptech charts.
Magellan's GPS communicate using NEMA data strings. This is an industry standard. Check your com port configurations. Magellans's Data Send software will create a conflict that you have to manually change. Then, no problem, works fine with Maptech charts.
I'm inclined to agree (FOS)
I was a bit puzzled *o about Magellan not being able to communicate with the charting software (Maptech?) I know that I had to configure my Garmin GPS to NMEA to talk to my software. I would be shocked if Magellan's doesn't do the same. here are the settings on my PDA (to GPS)that utilize NMEA. You'll need the same settings on your GPS too: MFG: NMEA Model: NMEA 0183 Port: COM1, serial cable on com1 Baud: 4800 I use Memory map, supposedly the similar to Maptech, but is capable of using maps from more companies. All of the software mentioned in this discussion are wonderful in chartplotting. If you want the most versatile software that can read the most different types of charts, you should consider FUGAWI, I saw an article in Practical sailor comparing today's chartplotting software & they came out as being able to read the most different types of charts. (Including ENC, I believe).
I was a bit puzzled *o about Magellan not being able to communicate with the charting software (Maptech?) I know that I had to configure my Garmin GPS to NMEA to talk to my software. I would be shocked if Magellan's doesn't do the same. here are the settings on my PDA (to GPS)that utilize NMEA. You'll need the same settings on your GPS too: MFG: NMEA Model: NMEA 0183 Port: COM1, serial cable on com1 Baud: 4800 I use Memory map, supposedly the similar to Maptech, but is capable of using maps from more companies. All of the software mentioned in this discussion are wonderful in chartplotting. If you want the most versatile software that can read the most different types of charts, you should consider FUGAWI, I saw an article in Practical sailor comparing today's chartplotting software & they came out as being able to read the most different types of charts. (Including ENC, I believe).
Let's look at Ernie's original post...
Ernie expresses enough frustration to wonder outloud if he should just stay in the 20th century and use (accurate, cheap if using reprints from a professional service...or a cost-effective chart kit) paper charts. He tells us he sails out of Kemah, TX which means he benefits from an excellent IALA Bravo buoyage system (as do, I suspect, most of you...), and let's remember that he's most likely been benefiting from and using GPS for many years now, in the last few years with an accuracy the width of a *really* sharp pencil point. Electronic charting is wonderful. My wife and I have been huge benefactors of it. But we've been in a lot of strange water over the last four years, most of it not buoyed and not well covered by NIMA or BA charts (nor others with which I'm familiar). This is my confession that I just don't 'get it'. For most sailors - who sail in local and/or coastal waters they already know, who have GPS aboard, and who mostly sail in daylight hours - it is truly unclear to me from where the presumption comes(that's how it usually comes across) that electronic charting is a 'must', as essential as well filtered diesel fuel or food in the fridge. I'd welcome someone filling me in; I really am perplexed. A full kit of uptodate NOAA charts for your home waters is available for perhaps $50. (See www.tidesend.com, who are just one of many chart reprinters; excellent copy, high grade paper, latest NIMA or NOAA chart). These and a GPS are all that's needed for (I'm totally guessing!) 90% of us here. Basic electronic charting, using one set of electronic charts for your homeport & regional waters, is available for peanuts (considering using e.g. OziExplorer as our charting program). The 2-week family-aboard vacation doesn't usually take the Mother Ship more than 300 NM from homebase, given weather & sightseeing ashore. Where does this need to have integrated charting systems at much larger expense come from? What sustains it in the face of many of us having fewer dollars to spend on our hobbies than we'd like? And since it rarely adds safety (assuming there's a semi-competent navigator board + a functional GPS and good charts), what's driving us to have it? Keeping up with the Jones'? Because we think we 'should' keep up with technology, whether it's actually needed or not? Or...dare I say it...is it just laziness coupled with indulgence? Ernie, you're asking the right question: SHOULD you indeed switch to electronic charting? I don't know what *your* answer should be, but the flood of 'use this' answers may not be the ones you SHOULD - at the end of the day - choose from. Ask yourself what your boat & family need to be safe and enjoy sailing. Jack Jack
Ernie expresses enough frustration to wonder outloud if he should just stay in the 20th century and use (accurate, cheap if using reprints from a professional service...or a cost-effective chart kit) paper charts. He tells us he sails out of Kemah, TX which means he benefits from an excellent IALA Bravo buoyage system (as do, I suspect, most of you...), and let's remember that he's most likely been benefiting from and using GPS for many years now, in the last few years with an accuracy the width of a *really* sharp pencil point. Electronic charting is wonderful. My wife and I have been huge benefactors of it. But we've been in a lot of strange water over the last four years, most of it not buoyed and not well covered by NIMA or BA charts (nor others with which I'm familiar). This is my confession that I just don't 'get it'. For most sailors - who sail in local and/or coastal waters they already know, who have GPS aboard, and who mostly sail in daylight hours - it is truly unclear to me from where the presumption comes(that's how it usually comes across) that electronic charting is a 'must', as essential as well filtered diesel fuel or food in the fridge. I'd welcome someone filling me in; I really am perplexed. A full kit of uptodate NOAA charts for your home waters is available for perhaps $50. (See www.tidesend.com, who are just one of many chart reprinters; excellent copy, high grade paper, latest NIMA or NOAA chart). These and a GPS are all that's needed for (I'm totally guessing!) 90% of us here. Basic electronic charting, using one set of electronic charts for your homeport & regional waters, is available for peanuts (considering using e.g. OziExplorer as our charting program). The 2-week family-aboard vacation doesn't usually take the Mother Ship more than 300 NM from homebase, given weather & sightseeing ashore. Where does this need to have integrated charting systems at much larger expense come from? What sustains it in the face of many of us having fewer dollars to spend on our hobbies than we'd like? And since it rarely adds safety (assuming there's a semi-competent navigator board + a functional GPS and good charts), what's driving us to have it? Keeping up with the Jones'? Because we think we 'should' keep up with technology, whether it's actually needed or not? Or...dare I say it...is it just laziness coupled with indulgence? Ernie, you're asking the right question: SHOULD you indeed switch to electronic charting? I don't know what *your* answer should be, but the flood of 'use this' answers may not be the ones you SHOULD - at the end of the day - choose from. Ask yourself what your boat & family need to be safe and enjoy sailing. Jack Jack
Two points Jack
Great post, by the way. You left out the 'cool' factor. Ever since the laptop was invented, I wanted to have one aboard for yet to be invented electronic charts. "Endless possibilities" sums up my feelings. I'm a computer freak like a lot of us here. But to add to your point, how many times do any of us even look at a chart in our home waters? (unless the computer's on) It was so long ago for me, that I don't remember the last time. I think it was in the 70s.
Great post, by the way. You left out the 'cool' factor. Ever since the laptop was invented, I wanted to have one aboard for yet to be invented electronic charts. "Endless possibilities" sums up my feelings. I'm a computer freak like a lot of us here. But to add to your point, how many times do any of us even look at a chart in our home waters? (unless the computer's on) It was so long ago for me, that I don't remember the last time. I think it was in the 70s.
Jack, doesn't the cynical definition of our sport
go somewhat like this: "sailing is a very slow and expensive way of going nowhere at all for no particular reason"? From this fundamental perspective: why even try to question the rationale behind people's choices of navigational electronics? Or of sailing versus grooming poodles, for that matter? My motto is: just let everyone figure out for themselves what they think would be really fun to do. Once they have made up their mind, "old geezers" like us can sometimes be of help in keeping newbies out of trouble or pointing eager beavers in the right direction. It doesn't bother me one bit whether anyone's plans do appeal to me personally or not. For example, if someone wanted to start a complete animal Zoo on board I will gladly point them to the right chapter and verse if I happen to know that something like that has already been tried before
) The only thing that occasionally bothers me about some posters is if they appear too lazy to search their own mind first. This produces the famous "I am planning to sail around Cape Horn; which boat should I buy and do I need to learn how to sail?" threads we all have to put up with several times per year. I would rather bend over backwards to accommodate someone with a totally crazy idea that he or she is committed to see through than tell those who never seem to be able make up their mind, what to do or not to do. Have fun! Flying Dutchman
go somewhat like this: "sailing is a very slow and expensive way of going nowhere at all for no particular reason"? From this fundamental perspective: why even try to question the rationale behind people's choices of navigational electronics? Or of sailing versus grooming poodles, for that matter? My motto is: just let everyone figure out for themselves what they think would be really fun to do. Once they have made up their mind, "old geezers" like us can sometimes be of help in keeping newbies out of trouble or pointing eager beavers in the right direction. It doesn't bother me one bit whether anyone's plans do appeal to me personally or not. For example, if someone wanted to start a complete animal Zoo on board I will gladly point them to the right chapter and verse if I happen to know that something like that has already been tried before
) The only thing that occasionally bothers me about some posters is if they appear too lazy to search their own mind first. This produces the famous "I am planning to sail around Cape Horn; which boat should I buy and do I need to learn how to sail?" threads we all have to put up with several times per year. I would rather bend over backwards to accommodate someone with a totally crazy idea that he or she is committed to see through than tell those who never seem to be able make up their mind, what to do or not to do. Have fun! Flying DutchmanHenk, that's why we're all here...
Henk, if you're asking why one would question a prevailing view about a given topic, my answer is that this is one of the primary purposes of BB's like this. Trends in thinking of one kind or another evolve into gospel over time; seems to me it's always useful to revisit the basis for the beliefs. I'm simply asking why we - collectively - would believe electronic charting deserves our money, given that most of us aspire to improve our boat in other ways we can't afford. I don't believe I challenged others' views because it "doesn't appeal to me", as you suggest. I simply don't see the basis for electronic charting becoming a default standard to the extent it is in people's thinking. Perhaps there will be some thoughtful responses that will help me understand this 'need' better. And perhaps some owners will reflect on the question I'm raising and find that useful thinking. Most likely, both will happen. Which is why we're all here, I think... Jack
Henk, if you're asking why one would question a prevailing view about a given topic, my answer is that this is one of the primary purposes of BB's like this. Trends in thinking of one kind or another evolve into gospel over time; seems to me it's always useful to revisit the basis for the beliefs. I'm simply asking why we - collectively - would believe electronic charting deserves our money, given that most of us aspire to improve our boat in other ways we can't afford. I don't believe I challenged others' views because it "doesn't appeal to me", as you suggest. I simply don't see the basis for electronic charting becoming a default standard to the extent it is in people's thinking. Perhaps there will be some thoughtful responses that will help me understand this 'need' better. And perhaps some owners will reflect on the question I'm raising and find that useful thinking. Most likely, both will happen. Which is why we're all here, I think... Jack
what works for me
I have used OziExplorer for six years in planning my North Lake Huron and North Channel summer cruises. The plans usually provide for 150+ waypoints and 8-10 routes. The plans are done during winter months and the base and handheld gps loaded (neither have chartplotting). The laptop is carried to make cruise plan changes and in six years has been used perhaps three times to reload new routes because of weather imposed changes where alternatives were not preplanned. Only once was the lap top used for position display for navigation. It happened one evening when the planned anchorage at East Grant Island was suffering a very strong west wind and I determined unsafe to enter. An alternate was chosen at Blind River, where I'd never been. Arrived at midnight in a pitch dark. The position display made finding the channel markers easy and provided a safe entry. GPS coordinates alone would have sufficed, but position display gave a far greater assurance of our movement in the pitch dark night, and it wouldn't be fair if I didn't say that it was very comforting. The charts used were those I'd scanned into OziExplorer from my paper charts. Other than the lap top computer owned for business needs, the paper charts and OziExplorer were under $150 combined and I feel provide all the navigation I need. IMO the comfort provided by position display in black out or fog conditions has value. While GPS can provide the necessities when used by a disciplined navigator who has correctly chosen waypoints and monitors cross track error between them, moving map has the ability to ease the concerns of the rest of the crew as well as serve as a double check that waypoint and cross track navigation are correct. My laptop has windows 98... If it were a later version, I might buy Fugawi and add the ENC charts which I've all ready downloaded and viewed. I don't see them as usefull for planning as my paper charts however. My thought is that if someday I owned a PDA, they may be more functional.
I have used OziExplorer for six years in planning my North Lake Huron and North Channel summer cruises. The plans usually provide for 150+ waypoints and 8-10 routes. The plans are done during winter months and the base and handheld gps loaded (neither have chartplotting). The laptop is carried to make cruise plan changes and in six years has been used perhaps three times to reload new routes because of weather imposed changes where alternatives were not preplanned. Only once was the lap top used for position display for navigation. It happened one evening when the planned anchorage at East Grant Island was suffering a very strong west wind and I determined unsafe to enter. An alternate was chosen at Blind River, where I'd never been. Arrived at midnight in a pitch dark. The position display made finding the channel markers easy and provided a safe entry. GPS coordinates alone would have sufficed, but position display gave a far greater assurance of our movement in the pitch dark night, and it wouldn't be fair if I didn't say that it was very comforting. The charts used were those I'd scanned into OziExplorer from my paper charts. Other than the lap top computer owned for business needs, the paper charts and OziExplorer were under $150 combined and I feel provide all the navigation I need. IMO the comfort provided by position display in black out or fog conditions has value. While GPS can provide the necessities when used by a disciplined navigator who has correctly chosen waypoints and monitors cross track error between them, moving map has the ability to ease the concerns of the rest of the crew as well as serve as a double check that waypoint and cross track navigation are correct. My laptop has windows 98... If it were a later version, I might buy Fugawi and add the ENC charts which I've all ready downloaded and viewed. I don't see them as usefull for planning as my paper charts however. My thought is that if someday I owned a PDA, they may be more functional.
where to spend your money
My son is always complaining of being short on money. He makes more than I do and I'm never short. I keep telling him it is tradeoffs. He just bought a ford expedition. I asked why. Then he is short on money for family vacations etc. A smaller car then he would have more money to take trips etc not to mention the expedition's thrist for gas. Very few of us have enough money to buy everything. So we have to choose. If buying a computer to know where you are even in waters that you know very well is the best use for your money then buy. But if new sheets or halyards etc would be better go that route. My other son spent several hundred dollars on a new stereo for his car but was too cheap to change the oil. The engine blew up and now he is without a car... choices. On boats I think that keeping it simple is a great choice.
My son is always complaining of being short on money. He makes more than I do and I'm never short. I keep telling him it is tradeoffs. He just bought a ford expedition. I asked why. Then he is short on money for family vacations etc. A smaller car then he would have more money to take trips etc not to mention the expedition's thrist for gas. Very few of us have enough money to buy everything. So we have to choose. If buying a computer to know where you are even in waters that you know very well is the best use for your money then buy. But if new sheets or halyards etc would be better go that route. My other son spent several hundred dollars on a new stereo for his car but was too cheap to change the oil. The engine blew up and now he is without a car... choices. On boats I think that keeping it simple is a great choice.
- Status