First...pros-cons for Gel vs. AGM's? Any H33 owners running three batteries? If so, where? There is not much room in engine compartment for anything, esp for an additional battery. Anyone know what group batteries originally came with H33?
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Ed Schenck
Gel's for me.
I have three Gel's(98Ah each), one isolated for starter and two house. And there is mounting for a fourth when I need the extra capacity. But these are on an H37C. They can be mounted anywhere at any angle and with no boxes or covers. I saw Tim's reply concerning Gel's and wonder why? I purchased mine after learning that several owner's had their's installed for eight or more years without problems. Two of mine are on the hull in a most inaccessible place. I didn't want to ever have to remove those or worry about water level. Those three have spent three winters there. And three summers where the locker temps are easily over 100 degrees for many weeks. I have the standard 35 amp alternator with internal regulator and a Heart inverter/charger. The AGM's only became a topic after I bought my Gels. They should be considered.
I have three Gel's(98Ah each), one isolated for starter and two house. And there is mounting for a fourth when I need the extra capacity. But these are on an H37C. They can be mounted anywhere at any angle and with no boxes or covers. I saw Tim's reply concerning Gel's and wonder why? I purchased mine after learning that several owner's had their's installed for eight or more years without problems. Two of mine are on the hull in a most inaccessible place. I didn't want to ever have to remove those or worry about water level. Those three have spent three winters there. And three summers where the locker temps are easily over 100 degrees for many weeks. I have the standard 35 amp alternator with internal regulator and a Heart inverter/charger. The AGM's only became a topic after I bought my Gels. They should be considered.
T
Tim Schaaf
Thoughts for Ed
I will admit to a bias to flooded, rather than gel, but it is based on some experience with them. I live down here in Baja, where we bake, and I have cruised and currently live aboard, so the batteries are cycled a LOT. I had four group 27's paralled as a house bank, and over a period of three years, four of them failed. Each time that happened, it brought the whole bank down. It was always easy to figure out which one was shot, since a cell would be very warm to the touch. I just got tired of chasing the problems. When I consulted with the engineers at several battery manufacturers, they all grudgingly said that gels were not the thing for the tropics. Even though we think of them as sealed, they do have little valves that can release pressure, and over time, they can lose some electrolyte. This was a big disappointment, as I had had high hopes for them. But, I have not been alone in this. In my work here at the Marina, I have seen lots and lots of gels that didn't cut it in the cruising environment. I suppose that in a temperate climate, with less charging and cycling, they will do better, and they sure are easier to deal with. By the way, even though they don't need boxes, I hope you have the terminals well protected from accidental contact and an impressive short! One other interesting thing that I discovered in my technical enquiries...they said that the gels actually don't have a higher acceptance rate, and don't charge more quickly, even though the sales people say otherwise. It is true that they won't stratify and sulphate if they are not fully charged, so maybe the faster rate comes from charging to a less "full" percentage, and taking advantage of the higher acceptance rate of a less fully charged battery. After my experience, I went back to golf car batteries. It is a royal pain to take care of them, although they are pretty accessible. But they "keep on ticking". Funny, I didn't have a great experience with Rolls batteries, either. and have gone back to the golf industry standard, Trojans. They have done great, as always. I have used a 55, an 80, and a 106 amp alternator in all of this, with smart regulator (heat compensated) and a smart charger. Although they have outperformed any other batteries I have ever used, it doesn't hurt that they are also the most cost effective! I, too, would love to hear about some real world, tropical cruising experiences with AGM's.
I will admit to a bias to flooded, rather than gel, but it is based on some experience with them. I live down here in Baja, where we bake, and I have cruised and currently live aboard, so the batteries are cycled a LOT. I had four group 27's paralled as a house bank, and over a period of three years, four of them failed. Each time that happened, it brought the whole bank down. It was always easy to figure out which one was shot, since a cell would be very warm to the touch. I just got tired of chasing the problems. When I consulted with the engineers at several battery manufacturers, they all grudgingly said that gels were not the thing for the tropics. Even though we think of them as sealed, they do have little valves that can release pressure, and over time, they can lose some electrolyte. This was a big disappointment, as I had had high hopes for them. But, I have not been alone in this. In my work here at the Marina, I have seen lots and lots of gels that didn't cut it in the cruising environment. I suppose that in a temperate climate, with less charging and cycling, they will do better, and they sure are easier to deal with. By the way, even though they don't need boxes, I hope you have the terminals well protected from accidental contact and an impressive short! One other interesting thing that I discovered in my technical enquiries...they said that the gels actually don't have a higher acceptance rate, and don't charge more quickly, even though the sales people say otherwise. It is true that they won't stratify and sulphate if they are not fully charged, so maybe the faster rate comes from charging to a less "full" percentage, and taking advantage of the higher acceptance rate of a less fully charged battery. After my experience, I went back to golf car batteries. It is a royal pain to take care of them, although they are pretty accessible. But they "keep on ticking". Funny, I didn't have a great experience with Rolls batteries, either. and have gone back to the golf industry standard, Trojans. They have done great, as always. I have used a 55, an 80, and a 106 amp alternator in all of this, with smart regulator (heat compensated) and a smart charger. Although they have outperformed any other batteries I have ever used, it doesn't hurt that they are also the most cost effective! I, too, would love to hear about some real world, tropical cruising experiences with AGM's.
M
Mark Mowery
H33 batteries
I have two group 27 flooded batteries in plastic battery boxes mounted in front of the engine that I use for a "house" bank (they just fit), and a single group 27 flooded battery under the starboard cockpit locker that I reserve for starting the engine in case I accidentally run the "house" bank down.
I have two group 27 flooded batteries in plastic battery boxes mounted in front of the engine that I use for a "house" bank (they just fit), and a single group 27 flooded battery under the starboard cockpit locker that I reserve for starting the engine in case I accidentally run the "house" bank down.
J
Jim Logan
Run 3 GRP 27's, wet cell
Butch - I run 3 group 27's in my 1980 h33 - two in front of the engine in the battery box (two battery cases just fit, if you make a support underneath to hold them up, I used a thick walled plastic bucket bottom with holes in it to allow my sump drain to work when I used the shower, screwed to a piece of marine plywood for the battery platform - Seems to work fine - I built another platform under the nav seat for another 27 - you can actually put a 4-d or 8-d here, as my boat had one when I got it, but the big batteries are hard to move (160lbs) and more dangerous if they break loose in rough seas, so I just use the 3 27's. Buy them from Sam's, replace every other season-they cost $50 or so - use a smart charger - I run a cold machine, replaced most of my lights inside with either flouresent or halogen, also run a fan most of the time in the summer - I seldom go more than two days without access to dock power, so this works fine for me for the occasional overnight stay - have a 55 amp alternator with an Automac control (it was on the boat when I got it), so I can charge relatively fast if I want to monitor the batteries. I use a west battery combiner, have one of the batteries reserved as the start battery, the other two paralled together for house bank - So far, this works great for me, but I have never used it for an extended( more than 3 day) cruise.
Butch - I run 3 group 27's in my 1980 h33 - two in front of the engine in the battery box (two battery cases just fit, if you make a support underneath to hold them up, I used a thick walled plastic bucket bottom with holes in it to allow my sump drain to work when I used the shower, screwed to a piece of marine plywood for the battery platform - Seems to work fine - I built another platform under the nav seat for another 27 - you can actually put a 4-d or 8-d here, as my boat had one when I got it, but the big batteries are hard to move (160lbs) and more dangerous if they break loose in rough seas, so I just use the 3 27's. Buy them from Sam's, replace every other season-they cost $50 or so - use a smart charger - I run a cold machine, replaced most of my lights inside with either flouresent or halogen, also run a fan most of the time in the summer - I seldom go more than two days without access to dock power, so this works fine for me for the occasional overnight stay - have a 55 amp alternator with an Automac control (it was on the boat when I got it), so I can charge relatively fast if I want to monitor the batteries. I use a west battery combiner, have one of the batteries reserved as the start battery, the other two paralled together for house bank - So far, this works great for me, but I have never used it for an extended( more than 3 day) cruise.
AGM's now!
Butch: I know NOTHING about Tim's situation. My experience with GEL's was great. 10 years with no maintance, no corroded terminals. Almost forgot that they were there. When I finally replaced them last year I went with AGM's. Got them for $120ea for 100AH units. Now are they better or worse than GELS. I have no idea. I have 4 of them aboard my boat. 1 for house keeping, 1 for starting and 2 for the refridgeration unit. They have been in the boat for about 15 months and have been totally maintenance free (just like gels). Get back to me in 8 or 9 years and I let you know if I am still happy. PS: I was charging my GEL's with an old Pro Mariner 20 and they still lasted that long, go figure!
Butch: I know NOTHING about Tim's situation. My experience with GEL's was great. 10 years with no maintance, no corroded terminals. Almost forgot that they were there. When I finally replaced them last year I went with AGM's. Got them for $120ea for 100AH units. Now are they better or worse than GELS. I have no idea. I have 4 of them aboard my boat. 1 for house keeping, 1 for starting and 2 for the refridgeration unit. They have been in the boat for about 15 months and have been totally maintenance free (just like gels). Get back to me in 8 or 9 years and I let you know if I am still happy. PS: I was charging my GEL's with an old Pro Mariner 20 and they still lasted that long, go figure!
S
steven f.
Trojan T-105
I am, by no means, an expert on batteries but here is what I use. I have an 81 h33 and just recently replaced 10 year old Gel's (that should have been replaced three years ago). Due to a cost issue and the fact that we will be doing no serious cruising for the next two years I replaced the six 6 volt house batteries with four Trojan T-105's, also six volts each. These are, I belive, 105 amp batteries. I store two in front of the engine (old shower sump area) and the other two under the sink. The starting battery is also in the head, under the drawer just aft of the sink. This basic arrangement was in place when I purchased the boat and found that it works just fine for me. The house batteries are wired in series and parallel for a 12 volt system. Access to the batteries is not too bad compared to other parts on a boat. I have a Westerbeke 24 hp engine with a Lestek 120 amp alternator and a Balmar voltage reg. One of the reasons I went with the 6 volt flooded batteries was that my voltage regulator doesn't recognize different type of batteries, it will charge all the batteries at the same rate. If I used a flooded starter and Gel's for the house than one of them would suffer (according to the Balmar people). Anyway, so far this works for me but time will tell.....
I am, by no means, an expert on batteries but here is what I use. I have an 81 h33 and just recently replaced 10 year old Gel's (that should have been replaced three years ago). Due to a cost issue and the fact that we will be doing no serious cruising for the next two years I replaced the six 6 volt house batteries with four Trojan T-105's, also six volts each. These are, I belive, 105 amp batteries. I store two in front of the engine (old shower sump area) and the other two under the sink. The starting battery is also in the head, under the drawer just aft of the sink. This basic arrangement was in place when I purchased the boat and found that it works just fine for me. The house batteries are wired in series and parallel for a 12 volt system. Access to the batteries is not too bad compared to other parts on a boat. I have a Westerbeke 24 hp engine with a Lestek 120 amp alternator and a Balmar voltage reg. One of the reasons I went with the 6 volt flooded batteries was that my voltage regulator doesn't recognize different type of batteries, it will charge all the batteries at the same rate. If I used a flooded starter and Gel's for the house than one of them would suffer (according to the Balmar people). Anyway, so far this works for me but time will tell.....
T
Tim Schaaf
Higher capacity, Steve
Sounds like a great layout for your H33 batteries, Steve. The good news is that the T-105 battery actually has a 20hr rate of 220 amp hours, way more than your assumption. Of course, that is at 6 volts, so you will get the 220 amp hours out of each pair. But that is a pretty good sized bank.
Sounds like a great layout for your H33 batteries, Steve. The good news is that the T-105 battery actually has a 20hr rate of 220 amp hours, way more than your assumption. Of course, that is at 6 volts, so you will get the 220 amp hours out of each pair. But that is a pretty good sized bank.
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