Electricity replacement

KD3PC · Mar 13, 2017

I would buy the largest capacity PV panels that will fit where you want the 80 watts to be..

I have the Honda and I love it, but it still requires gas and is noisy compared to PV panels and we do use it when appropriate

seadaddler · Mar 13, 2017

I have 2-190 watt panels off my arch on my 2007 H-36 and glad I decided to go bigger,I use my Gen so much less and usually
for heating water and AC.

Maine Sail · Mar 13, 2017

We really need a lot more info on your system and daily Ah consumption in order to be of any help.

Battery Ah capacity, chemistry (fllooded, AGM or GEL), brand & model?

Alternator model & amperage?

Is the alternaotr externally regulated? If so, what regulator?

AC battery charger amperage, brand etc.?

Solar controllers?

Voltage settings for charge sources?

What is your daily -Ah consumption?

How low do you let battery voltage get before you recharge?

What are you using to track SOC?

Do you have an installed Ah counting device?

Do you have an inverter/charger? If so model & brand.

How do you use the vessel? Weekend warrior or cruiser?

Dock or mooring when not in use?

centerline · Mar 13, 2017

We need more information.. but until we know more, 160 watts of solar isnt going to run the fridge and freezer.. in a perfect world with new panels and a perfect install, in perfect conditions, thats 13 amps... in reality it is an average of about 5 amps in the temperate zones and 8-10amp average in the tropics.... not really enough amps for long term dependabilty.

What is the wind gen capable of and what does it average per day?...

How many of what type of batteries do you have?..
How old are they and what are their condition?...

No matter how much the system can produce, Sulfated batts cant store as much energy as good batts can... and even with NEW batteries, if you are barely able to produce enough power to stay slightly ahead of the demand, the batteries are going to suffer greatly...

Ned Ludd · Mar 13, 2017

Sounds like your amp hour consumption needs to go on a serious diet, what can you learn to live without?

jssailem · Mar 13, 2017

Richard. This is a question that has been addressed in many of the writings on the forum.

My I suggest you do a Forum Search for batteries and power needs.
One of our top contributors is MaineSail. He has the following link... https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/1-both-2-off-switches-thoughts-musings.137615/
Also a website at : http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects
Where many of the unstated questions in your message above are addressed.
As an opinion - the answer is YES.
As to what are the pluses/minuses of each and weather they are shelling out more money or improving your situation... you have not yet provided enough information about your condition.
My sense you are still struggling to identify the questions.

Use the forum to clarify the issues and then ask the question and you'll get all sorts of opinion and specific help.

viper · Mar 14, 2017

Agree, replace the 80 watt panels with 160 watt panels or even a 305 watt panel( slightly larger. also usually 24v), American made, both can be had for $150/ea now on EBAY just bought 3 for my H380. The price is down 9/10th from ten years ago and the watts are way up. They are also Mono Crystal.... which work in less than optimum light and angle, so much more effective at generating watts and are in reality 40% better than the same watt panel of a decade ago if you could find one back then...

I also ordered the new Hunter Owners 30 watt solar panel for charging the Starter Batt... Noting it is 6 times better than 15 years ago.

I so far have decided not to get a Diesel Genset, the cost of $12K installed for 3.5 Kilowatt is just 2 high after 30K of upgrades and more to come), and given that with just a 30 gallon diesel fuel tank, and 6 gallons per day usage, that's a bit too high for heavy usage. I have opted instead for a 2KW Yamaha Portable gas genset for the occasional use whose cost is less than the maintenance on a Diesel genset and can run all day on a gallon of gas. At 42lbs , I can move it around, even take it to the beach in the RIB... will power my dive compressor... or microwave. I can replace at maintenance price of the Diesel/ one service call at my dock...lol.

My second battery Bank, for now is also where the diesel Genset would go.... And I can add a second portable hooked together and also run the A/C (ups to 88lbs total). Only run one when the load is light, or only take one unless, I'm going to be on the hook a longer period in hot weather, and in either case, still use less fuel and with the inverters have cleaner electric. It was some serious cruisers who recommended going with the portables instead.... Note with 2 I have a backup available if 1 fails, not weeks w/o power if the built in genset fails and I can replace both for 2k in a day.

All that said if I had the 12K handy, I might opt for the 12K genset if I had more diesel storage. The H380, does not have a lot of large storage areas either (lots of storage if you at storing smaller items), one of its few weaknesses other than being a bit tender.

Regards,

Bill Roosa · Mar 14, 2017

The procedure is to determine you cruising stile, weekend, week long, long term live aboard etc.
That will drive the way you assess your daily/weekend loads and the time between recharges.
Once you have a good idea of the loads that the system will have to support and the recharge frequency you can determine the best type of charger (shore power, solar, hydro etc). You will also have a good idea of what size battery bank you are going to need.
That last sentence is pretty problematical as you probably cannot increase the size of the banks. So you have to go back and reassess your recharge frequency/loads/production assessments.
It is an iterative problem that usually take 3 or more times through the process to get something that works for your style.
I built a spreadsheet to help crunch the numbers so you don't go blind with pen and paper. Just ask for it by email.

viper · Mar 14, 2017

jssailem said:
Richard. This is a question that has been addressed in many of the writings on the forum.

My I suggest you do a Forum Search for batteries and power needs.
One of our top contributors is MaineSail. He has the following link... https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/1-both-2-off-switches-thoughts-musings.137615/
Also a website at : http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects
Where many of the unstated questions in your message above are addressed.
As an opinion - the answer is YES.
As to what are the pluses/minuses of each and weather they are shelling out more money or improving your situation... you have not yet provided enough information about your condition.
My sense you are still struggling to identify the questions.

Use the forum to clarify the issues and then ask the question and you'll get all sorts of opinion and specific help.

GOOD Link. I added the second bank and have the dedicated starter battery with its new dedicated deck solar panel( 30 watts) from Hunter owners. My electrical guy, wired it thru the STD 1,2, Both switch. There are some complexities in that my Inverter/Charger really can only charge one bank at a time, in that it senses a full charge on just one bank or starter battery, it shuts off. There is a capacitor/resister that can be added to resolve this partially which cost about 40 bucks.... of course I have 360 watts of solar for charging the house banks and one Hunter deck solar panel, 30 watts for charging the dedicated starter battery in addition to the charger/inverter charging those banks in the 1 or 2 position along with Starter bat which also is charged via the Alternator (which can also charge the bank 1 house Bats, factory setup). I still carry battery jump cables. Suspenders and Belts. If it can go wrong it will and has!

Regards

Maine Sail · Mar 14, 2017

Richard Bayle said:
Thank you for this and you're correct in your last sentence. Three marine electrical companies have spent a long time going nowhere with the power loss problem plus one retired marine engineer.

Sadly far too many "marine electrical companies" are not energy management specific. Sure they can wire electronics or even install a battery charger but sadly they far to often fall flat on their faces when it comes to energy management & designing balanced systems to satisfy the needs of a cruiser.

Richard Bayle said:
So I guess, two more panels and carry the generator.
Richard

You really should get us the info we requested, if you actually want help.

Shooting from the hip is not a solution it's a Band-Aid to the problem and very often is simply wasted money.

If you don't know the answers to the questions in post #4, this is actually a part of the underlying problem. Until you understand your system, even just basically, no one else will either unless they physically set foot on the boat and begin to trace it out and pepper you with a million questions.....

I would not suggest spending a dime until you can answer each question in post #4..

Richard Bayle said:
How to put back the electricity. I have a wind turbine that works in 15 + knots and copes with the fridge and freezer plus two horizontal solar panels on the arch.

What defines "copes with"? What type of current is your wind gen actually contributing in 15 knots?

Richard Bayle said:
My batteries disappear at an alarming rate

If this is true then the wind gen and solar are not actually coping with the freezer and fridge. A freezer AND fridge can suck well over -130Ah's each day alone and this is ignoring other DC system loads. It is quite possible you are using more than -150Ah's each day.

Richard Bayle said:
and when at anchor I find I have to run the engine for at least 2 hours, often 3, to get back to a sensible value in the batteries.

Without quantifiable data it is impossible to determine what a "sensible vlaue in the batteries" actually is?

Richard Bayle said:
Having sat on the boat and done the sums, again,

We need these sums and how you arrived at them in order to help. We also need to know how you decided one more panel or unknown wattage was required. How was this calculation made.

Richard Bayle said:
I have calculated that one more solar panel; so I'm going for two, 80 W solar panels mounted on the sides outside of the guard rails would solve the problem,

From what you describe this is going to be a lot more than one panels worth of energy that will be required. Help us help you by giving us the data...

ice breaker · Mar 15, 2017

The biggest power eater on my boat is the freezer. I wish it was better insulated and more efficient........that said I would not give it up. I mostly coastal cruise, and also have a gen set.....but I totally understand the pain that extended cruisers have. Pretending every day is Apollo 13 must be tiring.
Good luck