Electrically Confused

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Bob S

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Sep 27, 2007
1,813
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
I'm at my boat today and I'm checking continuity from my switch. The face of the switch has #1 west; off south; #2 east; and Both north. Attached to post one is battery #1 positive, ok. Post #2 is connected to the solenoid and the both post is connected to Battery # 2 positive.

Looking at the back of the switch:

"BAT #1" lines up with the front of the switch as #1.
"BAT #2" lines up with BOTH on the front of the switch.
"FEEDER" lines up with switch #2 in the front.

On the backside of the switch the #1 & 2 markings are 90° apart yet on the face of the switch they are 180° apart.
This appears to be wired wrong.

I'm trying to figure out how the boat is wired now before I start rewiring her. I would like to add terminal block and run it off the #1 posts then run all my house circuits from there. As it is currently wired, there are 3 additional 8awg wires directly to both posts attached to different circuit breakers.

#1 will be my house bank so I want to feed all the existing breakers from there and the only thing attached to #2 wuld be the positive lead from the reserve battery.
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
It would help if you posted a photo of the switch in question, since different switches are constructed differently and the posts may be in different positions on them. What make/model of 1/2/both switch is it???
 
May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
Should be

Unless you have an odball set up, the normal wiring is thus. #1 to the positive side of the start/emergency battery. #2 should be to the positive of the house bank. The both or central terminal should go to the solenoid. I would not be concerned with what terminals line up with what positions on the front. There are mechanical workings in the switch, that can very well put things out of line with the front. If the back terminals are marked 1 - 2 - B
it should be fairly simple. But sailingdog is correct. A pic would be a great help, as anything else is somewhat of a guess. Different brands of switches can be totally different.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,353
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
1-2-B Switch and Wring

Hi, Bob,

Oh, boy! The 1-2-B switch: my favorite subject! :)

1. Don't worry about the positions of the posts behind the switch. Phil's right.

2. If YOU want the house bank to be #1, go for it. In fact, if you ever add a Link 2000, the house bank will HAVE to be #1. A "...normal" for choosing #1 or #2 simply does NOT exist.

3. Use the "C" - common post to run two things, and two things only: the power to the distribution panel (DP) and wire to the starter (unless your alternator output is there, too, see #4 below). Do NOT run your DP from the #1 post because when you turn off the switch, stuff will still be ON.

4. Alternator output & choices: While not mentioned, and perhaps previously discussed with you here on this 'board http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=107109, your alternator output should run directly to your house bank, and NOT to the "C" post of the switch. You'll need a means of charging your reserve bank with an echo charger, relay, combiner, or a simple on/off switch - your choice. If you still run your alternator output to the "C" post of the switch, know that your switch will then determine which battery gets charged when the engine is running, as well as which battery is being used for power when the engine is off. If wired with the alternator output to the C post, do NOT move that switch, ever, when the engine is running, please. Your boat, your alternator, your choice.

Alt. Output Choice: IF the alternator output now goes to the "C" post of switch, you could, very simply, just move your alternator output from there to the #1 (house bank) post of the switch - it's simpler than completely rewiring the alternator output to the house bank if you don't have the time or want to bother, and is electrically exactly the same: think about it to understand this simple idea that I used for many years before I installed our high output alternator and rewired directly from the alt. to the house bank. This only works if you have TWO separate wires from your C post: one to the alternator and the other to the starter. But check the wire size from the switch to the bank to make sure it's adequate; it's usually #4 wire on Catalinas, so if you still have the OEM alternator, it should be just fine. If and when you get a high output alternator, then you can and will need to change the alternator output directly to the house bank because the #4 wire will be too small for the current it needs to carry over that distance. If you do this simple change now, you'll still need "a means of charging your reserve bank with an echo charger, relay, combiner, or a simple on/off switch - your choice."

I highly recommend this simple change, highly, get it? Get the danged alternator output OFF of the C post and you'll sleep a lot better, knowing your switch cannot ever harm to the alternator EVEN IF YOU TURN THE SWITCH TO OFF WHEN THE ENGINE IS RUNNING!!! That's because the alternator output always has a route to the house bank. It's easy to do, and in most cases the wire from the alternator (unfortunately) is already there - just move it from the wrong C post (which boat factories continue to do!!!) to the right (house bank) post.

5. "As it is currently wired, there are 3 additional 8awg wires directly to both posts attached to different circuit breakers." YOU have to trace these down and find out what they are serving. What does "both posts" mean, since you have three posts???

Remember: There are three posts on the switch, there are four positions.

#1 house bank output to #1 on the switch. #2 reserve bank output to #2 on the switch. DP and starter to "C" on the switch. "Always on" loads, like the bilge pump and stereo memory wires can go either direct to the house bank or to the #1 post on the switch (which is probably what some of those three "extra" wires are from).

Draw a wring diagram, for both before and after.

Again, you may have this already, but here's a link to my wiring diagram, see reply #23, here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4623.15.html

A picture is totally unnecessary. Have fun! :):):)

PS - Bob, thanks for bringing this up. You're last post stirred me to document the wiring diagram changes, and this one resulted in a new topic on our C34 message board, here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4934.0.html
 
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Bob S

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Sep 27, 2007
1,813
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
I'm sitting on my porch drinking a nice cab and reading Calder's mechanical and Electrical Manual. The chapter on understanding and troubleshooting electrical circuits. It's a beautiful afternoon and the Yankees just tide it up @ 8 / 8. I'll be back to the boat tomorrow and will try to figure out how the switch works. The three post are clearly marked BAT 1; BAT 2; and FEEDER (which I assume is "C"). I just assumed they should line up with the switch position on the front. I'm not sure the type of switch Catalina uses but is the OEM one. The panel I beleive is a Seaward. I'll check it with my new multimeter to see which circuit opens at what switch position.
Stu,

Already have the LinkPro, Echo charger and Maxcharge regulator. i planned on running the alternator directly to the house bank as you and mainesail have advised so many times. I am just trying to do an inventory and see how she is currently wired. The additional wires coming off the #1 and 2 posts go to circuit breakers on the panel. One I think is for the bilige pump and the other 2 could be for the indicator light that tell you the circuit is live.

Thanks again
Bob
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,353
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Stu, Already have the LinkPro, Echo charger and Maxcharge regulator. i planned on running the alternator directly to the house bank as you and mainesail have advised so many times. I am just trying to do an inventory and see how she is currently wired. The additional wires coming off the #1 and 2 posts go to circuit breakers on the panel. One I think is for the bilige pump and the other 2 could be for the indicator light that tell you the circuit is live.
Cab? Wonderful. That game last night was something else, so a tie score after 8 is meaningless at Fenway! :)

Anyway, keep it simple. Forget the multimeter. Open the panel, loosen the screws on the back of the switch, turn the breakers on for what you think they serve, and take the wires off one at a time. Easy, you're done!

Same thing for battery bank service to the switch: Tighten the screws on the switch, and take off the (+) on one battery bank to assure that it's the one you think it is.

Continuity tests with multimeters for that kinda work is way too much to have to deal with. Put the book down! :doh:

Good on the echo charger! Go for it!

Time for my cab now...:D
 

druid

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Apr 22, 2009
837
Ontario 32 Pender Harbour
The three post are clearly marked BAT 1; BAT 2; and FEEDER (which I assume is "C"). I just assumed they should line up with the switch position on the front.
How many Battery switches have I wired up backwards because of this...? Yes, they're usually positioned OPPOSITE to the way you'd think they should be - wire them according to their labels and not by their position and you should be fine.

I like running my alternator through the bat switch. Yes, I never change switch position when the engine is running - I never turn off the ign switch when the engine is running either (it has a mechanical stop cable). I like the ability to choose what battery I'm going to be charging. Also, although you SHOULDN'T, most bat switches are "make before break" meaning that you can switch from 1 to 2 to BOTH without harming the alternator, as long as you don't go to (or through) OFF. But don't do it, anyway. ;)

druid
 
May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
One more thing

If I understood correctly, your bilge pump runs from the battery switch. This is an OK arrangement I guess, as long as it comes off the house bank positive. You do not want the bilge pump to be switched off when the battery switch is off. While I'm here, I would like to be enlightened. Why does the house bank have to be wired to the #1 position if an Link is added, as Stu stated. What am I missing here. Seems to me that it the house bank is on ##two, attach it to the #two, or the #1 if house is on #1. How can it tell which terminal the positive lead is attached to.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,353
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
... I would like to be enlightened. Why does the house bank have to be wired to the #1 position if an Link is added, as Stu stated. What am I missing here. Seems to me that it the house bank is on ##two, attach it to the #two, or the #1 if house is on #1. How can it tell which terminal the positive lead is attached to.
Hi, good ideas. You're right, it doesn't matter, except....

The reason for the Link designations is that the Link algorithm was originally made for two equal house banks and that when using a large house bank with a small reserve bank the F11 switch on these Link units require using the house bank as #1 to ignore the almost always fully charged reserve bank (#2) as a charge controller. In many cases, like ours, the Link is used to control the combined Freedom inverter chargers, a nice piece of equipment that we've been very happy with since it went in in '98. The Link followed, albeit with altogether much delay, in '06. I previously noted that I'd set a record for procrastination in purchasing, and then, finally, installing the Link. If I pulled this stuff at home...

Without a dual bank (and maybe older and/or "bigger") Link, it really doesn't matter, but I simply had to change the output posts of my two banks when I installed our Link, so thought it might be helpful to mention this here, because I'd spent a lot of time with our house bank as #2 and had to "relearn" the basics when I installed the Link. That's all, folks! :D
 
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