Just bought 85 H34 and am going through the systems. First sailboat and I plan on doing extended cruising this winter for 6-12 months,Keys,Bahamas and maybe further ??? Existing battery banks consist of 4 6V golf cart batteries that are 2 1/2 years old from receipts and were replaced at same time. Two are US Battery US 2200 @ 225 ah and two West Marine GC15g @ 215 ah. I want to add dedicated starting battery for engine. Should I combine 4 batteries into one house bank or have two house banks. The existing charger is a 20A Rariton Crown II R2012F-3. Is this charger sufficient? Can I connect it to the starting battery as well. With 900 - 1000 ah of house batteries is the existing 35 A alternater with built in regulator capable for recharging with out extended run times for the loads below . The usual lighting loads,fan loads, Adler Barbour cold machine,auto pilot,stereo cd player, 12 volt TV-VCR. I plan on installing a 1000W or 1500W inverter as well for up to 1000W microwave and other smaller 120V loads (chargers).Times loads would be on would be average usage. With the above existing setup would you recommend wind generator or solar panels ? Do not really have room for permanent panels and not sure about noise produced by blades on generator or additional mounting point for it. Finances for upgrades not unlimited so want biggest bang for the buck. Thinking of upgrading alternater to Balmar 70A with smart regulater and temp sensors. Any advice would be helpful.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
T
Tom Wootton
J
Jack Tyler
A few thoughts on your many questions...
Brent, if there was ever a project which calls for a 'systems approach', upgrading the electrical system is it! So first, you'll need to do some homework with your own sailing plans & onboard electrical consumers in mind. Calder's book is excellent but can be a bit of a challenge to start with. I'd recommend you first visit jackrabbitmarine.com and walk thru their entire 'Reference' section; I think you'll find it a good grounding in the many choices you face when upgrading an electrical system intended for cruising use. The company is great to work with BTW, will be at all the Fall shows where you can pester them with details, and they offer competitive prices when you buy 'systems' (e.g. inverter/charger, alternator w/ ext. regulator, monitor). Perhaps most important, they answer their own phone & coach customers thru the details once you've started ripping things apart! A few direct answers & comments: 1. It is *always* easier to increase a house battery bank than it is to efficiently refill it after it's been drawn down. Just to offer you a guideline, your 34' boat should be able to meet all its needs with 400-450 amp/hrs of house bank, assuming a well-designed system. A larger bank (that you should fully 'bulk charge') can require a lot of engine time, even with supplemental wind/solar. 2. Don't overlook inexpensive suppliers. E.g. I found a local Tampa auto electric shop which sells superb Trojan T-105 6V 225 amp/hr batteries (designed for golf carts) for less than $50 each. After 3 years of full-time liveaboard cruising while having all the typical 12V & 110V conveniences, these appear to be a very 'high value' purchase. 3. For the level of electrical consumption you plan (inverter, microwave, reefer, TV/VCR et al.) you will definitely need to replace/upgrade you alternator (most likely to a small frame unit with a 108-amp 'hot' rating, about the most you can drive properly with a single belt that retains a decent life span). This will be one piece of our 'system' purchase. 4. As you read, start your homework by building an energy budget (see Calder or JRM) - i.e. build a table of 12V demands from all your 12V equipment, lighting, etc.. Solicit some 'real world' feedback from dockmates who've done what you plan, to insure your estimates are valid. E.g. based on the equipment you describe above, including your relatively inefficient reefer but assuming a not large/well insulated box (this will be your biggest single 12V consumer), I would plan on your boat being a 100-120 amp/hr/day boat - more if you install a SSB and use it. 5. You will find that can be a demanding load to replace routinely; you'll also find the crew doesn't appreciate listening to the engine run a lot. That's what drives many of us into alternative energy solutions (wind/solar), even tho' they can fail to contribute much on cloudy, less than windy days. In addition, keep in mind there's about a 10% efficiency loss as you charge. 6. Don't undersize your inverter as it is only 90% efficient and e.g. a Freedom 10 can't support a 1000 watt microwave. Better yet, ask the cook if you really *need* a microwave. (We found we used ours very little). 7. Plan on replacing all our house bank batteries before you leave, insuring they all start with equal lifespan & health and providing you the most efficient bank performance possible. 8. A final suggeston: I think JRM produces one of the best basic wiring diagrams to help you in upgrading a 12V DC system. In your case, you'll need to add several shunts, wire in an external regulator, alter your 110V dock power to accommodate your inverter/charger, combine all your (hopefully, new) house bank batteries while adding an engine start battery, increase the capacity of your panel and even more. This is also a great time to look carefully at the wiring sizes in your boat; some will need to be increased in size even if the wiring appears to be in good shape. This can be overwhelming enough that it leads some to only tackle the job piecemeal; they're the ones that have electrical problems after they leave the dock. This puzzle can be immensely simplified if you start with a sound basic 12V diagram that takes all these changes into account; JRM's diagram IMO does this better than Calder's book. Good luck! This may be the most challenging single chunk of work you'll need to do to your boat, but a thoughtful, thorough approach will pay back dividends each and every day when you're 'out there' on the hook. Jack
Brent, if there was ever a project which calls for a 'systems approach', upgrading the electrical system is it! So first, you'll need to do some homework with your own sailing plans & onboard electrical consumers in mind. Calder's book is excellent but can be a bit of a challenge to start with. I'd recommend you first visit jackrabbitmarine.com and walk thru their entire 'Reference' section; I think you'll find it a good grounding in the many choices you face when upgrading an electrical system intended for cruising use. The company is great to work with BTW, will be at all the Fall shows where you can pester them with details, and they offer competitive prices when you buy 'systems' (e.g. inverter/charger, alternator w/ ext. regulator, monitor). Perhaps most important, they answer their own phone & coach customers thru the details once you've started ripping things apart! A few direct answers & comments: 1. It is *always* easier to increase a house battery bank than it is to efficiently refill it after it's been drawn down. Just to offer you a guideline, your 34' boat should be able to meet all its needs with 400-450 amp/hrs of house bank, assuming a well-designed system. A larger bank (that you should fully 'bulk charge') can require a lot of engine time, even with supplemental wind/solar. 2. Don't overlook inexpensive suppliers. E.g. I found a local Tampa auto electric shop which sells superb Trojan T-105 6V 225 amp/hr batteries (designed for golf carts) for less than $50 each. After 3 years of full-time liveaboard cruising while having all the typical 12V & 110V conveniences, these appear to be a very 'high value' purchase. 3. For the level of electrical consumption you plan (inverter, microwave, reefer, TV/VCR et al.) you will definitely need to replace/upgrade you alternator (most likely to a small frame unit with a 108-amp 'hot' rating, about the most you can drive properly with a single belt that retains a decent life span). This will be one piece of our 'system' purchase. 4. As you read, start your homework by building an energy budget (see Calder or JRM) - i.e. build a table of 12V demands from all your 12V equipment, lighting, etc.. Solicit some 'real world' feedback from dockmates who've done what you plan, to insure your estimates are valid. E.g. based on the equipment you describe above, including your relatively inefficient reefer but assuming a not large/well insulated box (this will be your biggest single 12V consumer), I would plan on your boat being a 100-120 amp/hr/day boat - more if you install a SSB and use it. 5. You will find that can be a demanding load to replace routinely; you'll also find the crew doesn't appreciate listening to the engine run a lot. That's what drives many of us into alternative energy solutions (wind/solar), even tho' they can fail to contribute much on cloudy, less than windy days. In addition, keep in mind there's about a 10% efficiency loss as you charge. 6. Don't undersize your inverter as it is only 90% efficient and e.g. a Freedom 10 can't support a 1000 watt microwave. Better yet, ask the cook if you really *need* a microwave. (We found we used ours very little). 7. Plan on replacing all our house bank batteries before you leave, insuring they all start with equal lifespan & health and providing you the most efficient bank performance possible. 8. A final suggeston: I think JRM produces one of the best basic wiring diagrams to help you in upgrading a 12V DC system. In your case, you'll need to add several shunts, wire in an external regulator, alter your 110V dock power to accommodate your inverter/charger, combine all your (hopefully, new) house bank batteries while adding an engine start battery, increase the capacity of your panel and even more. This is also a great time to look carefully at the wiring sizes in your boat; some will need to be increased in size even if the wiring appears to be in good shape. This can be overwhelming enough that it leads some to only tackle the job piecemeal; they're the ones that have electrical problems after they leave the dock. This puzzle can be immensely simplified if you start with a sound basic 12V diagram that takes all these changes into account; JRM's diagram IMO does this better than Calder's book. Good luck! This may be the most challenging single chunk of work you'll need to do to your boat, but a thoughtful, thorough approach will pay back dividends each and every day when you're 'out there' on the hook. Jack
M
Mike Webster
Combining 6V Batteries
Brent, You've received a well written response from Jack. There is also a wealth of information in the archives that should be reviewed. You made a comment about your house bank being 900-1000 ah, and it sounds like you are talking about your existing bank, not future plans. To get a 12V system from 6V batteries, you put two batteries in series. This adds the voltage, but not the amperage. In other words, two 6V, 225 ah batteries in series becomes one 12V, 225 ah battery bank. If you hooked up the batteries in parallel, you would have a 6V, 450 ah capacity bank. Its all explained in the books mentioned. Good reading.
Brent, You've received a well written response from Jack. There is also a wealth of information in the archives that should be reviewed. You made a comment about your house bank being 900-1000 ah, and it sounds like you are talking about your existing bank, not future plans. To get a 12V system from 6V batteries, you put two batteries in series. This adds the voltage, but not the amperage. In other words, two 6V, 225 ah batteries in series becomes one 12V, 225 ah battery bank. If you hooked up the batteries in parallel, you would have a 6V, 450 ah capacity bank. Its all explained in the books mentioned. Good reading.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.