electrical shore power question

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Jun 2, 2004
217
Hunter 376 Oyster Bay, LI, NY
Thanks, Mutuempo. I was about to tell Steve D the same thing. The one that caught my eye was from the Waste Marine catalog manufactured by a company called "EEL" and sells for $234.99 which is comperable (well, a $30 difference) to the Marinco unit at Jamestown Distributors.
 
Jun 25, 2012
942
hunter 356 Kemah,the Republic of Texas
The devises on your boat as well any appliance at home will only pull the amps it needs to operate. Regardless of amps available. The only way to damage say an a/c pump motor is for it not to be able to draw the amps it needs to operate. All my 120v electronics on the boat are set up just like home and are on a ups or computer battery backup, so has not be having any brown outs. Plus I have up to 15 or 20 minutes of run time before needing to shut things down or when switching from shore power and over the gen or invertor.
Most people don't know this but the standard 30 amp power cord as a designed in safety factor and will handle 50amp draw just fine. So if you have two 30amp rated service lines into your boat lets call them A and B. A 30-amp having standard 15amp power outlets and maybe a small waterheater,microwave,etc. Then on the B-amp side airconditioning maybe just one or say two or three units with the second or third being smaller units so in total they will only pull in a total only a max of 25amps when all are running. So has not to blow the B side 30amp breaker on boat. And same on the A side 30amp breaker. It is possible like on my boat to pull more then 50amps in total. So If all your stuff together can pull more then the 50amp rated breaker on dock then it should kick. If not then the 50amp breaker is defective. Keep in mind all breakers lose some rated capsity over time. i.e. 15 down to 10....30 down to 25 or even 20....even 50 down to 40 etc.
Now if your boat has only one 30amp or only needs one 30amp shore power cord, but you need to be able plug into a 50/125v or 50/250v dock service. The 50/250v as two legs and is for being able to have 220v service on your boat. There are adapters available to plug 30amps into 50amps. Make sure you have both type 50amp adapters.
Now with the single 50/250 adapters one leg on the plug will be dead. Problem some marinias are not properly wired and the wrong leg is wire up on the that box.But the box for the next slip over maybe different. So it is good to have handy two adapters wired differently. Or just have one 50/250 to 30amp y-adapter so you can pick which side of Y to use. This is great when you and your neighbor need to share, You can use one leg while he uses the other. Not recomended all the time and make sure your neighbor does not have any funcky wiring practices. (Some People?) On my boat I have a special goody bag were I have over time collected nearly every concievable option. I even have a modified 30 amp cord with a 50amp plug on the dock side end. Then I can use my 30amp to 30amp Y at the boat. This way all you have to deal with one cord not two. I do not do this all the time. And Yes I keep the bag lock up and out of sight.
Another thing to always watch out for is reverse polarity issues when going some place new. Make sure you are double poled breaker on the boat and Always make sure all power is turned off on the boat, make sure breaker is off at dock before pluging in. Always have someone at the service panel below watching out for any problems.
Most marinias do not hire reliable electricians and can not be trusted. Most people have no clue about electricty and do strange things. Because they have not bothered to educate them selves. Its not that hard. Even a cave man can do it! Not funny electricity can be dangerous. No excuses the information is out there.
I hope this helps you out
Good luck!
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Thanks, Mutuempo. I was about to tell Steve D the same thing. The one that caught my eye was from the Waste Marine catalog manufactured by a company called "EEL" and sells for $234.99 which is comperable (well, a $30 difference) to the Marinco unit at Jamestown Distributors.

The EEL brand is Marinco. The only difference is the new connector on the end. Just installed two 50A 125V EEL cables about a month ago and while decent I don't know how they will hold up long term.. The Smart Plug cables are sill much better but not offered in 50A yet...
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
7,089
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Most people don't know this but the standard 30 amp power cord as a designed in safety factor and will handle 50amp draw just fine.
I even have a modified 30 amp cord with a 50amp plug on the dock side end. Then I can use my 30amp to 30amp Y at the boat.
While you have vastly more experience using shore power than I (I only plug in maybe once a year), I don't think either of the above statements are good ideas.

Whether it will work most of the time, and is safe in the long term are two different things.

A typical 50' 50A 125V shore power cord is made with 6 ga. wire. The comparable 30A cord is 10 ga. This is a big difference in ampacity. While using a cord with less ampacity than recommended may indeed work, even for a while, the cord may suffer progressive deterioration (due to heat) and ultimately fail. Failures of cords can cause fires.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Most people don't know this but the standard 30 amp power cord as a designed in safety factor and will handle 50amp draw just fine.
Good luck!
In the marine environment, with the crappy twist lock plugs we use here in the US, you are lucky to get even 30A out of a 30A rated cable.

The receptacle at the boat, cord, cord, and pedestal are a HUGE source of corrosion and thus resistance making passing even 30A, on a slightly used 30A cable or dock receptacle, more than a few months old, a dubious task at best.. We then often add multiple adapters, Y's, splitters, converters etc. etc. adding even more friction fit connections to potentially fail.

I see LOTS of burned 30A and 50A cord-sets that never tripped a breaker but the resulting high resistance has melted the plug end or receptacle end.. While 10GA wire can handle 50A for a short period it will eventually over heat if asked to do so for long periods, especially with a long cable and it simply should not be done. That said the fire would most likely occur at the receptacle before the wire as that is the real weak link in the US shore power system. These cord sets are also tightly bundled in a jacket that does not dissipate heat well making their over all ampacity ratings considerably lower than that of a single bare non-bundled conductor of 10GA wire.

Trying to pull more than 30A through a 30A cable will almost always result in issues unless you are in the controlled environment of UL Lab's, testing brand new everything...;) Once at the dock nothing is new, or performs at "new" for very long...

Please do not try and pull more than 30A through a 30A shore power cord set. If you light up the marina it will likely exceed the coverage of your insurance policy, and you'll be on the hook. Heck for that matter try not to pull much more than 25A and you'll be doing far better than pushing the cable to its face value rating..... In a house it is one thing but boats are not indoors, the connections corrode, oxidize and cause high resistance which leads to heat and eventually fire even at well below the cord sets face value rating.

The cord set below had the "potential" to draw about 42A on this boat. According to the owner it never drew more than about 36A - 38A. This is the reality of the marine environment hard at work when combined with the crappy shore power standard we use here.

This could have burned down the entire marina. When I showed up at this boat it was drawing about 22A and the temp on this was over 185F.... It had clearly been much hotter....

Please inspect and clean your plugs and receptacle tips often!!! Sadly these are not rare instances...

 
Jun 25, 2012
942
hunter 356 Kemah,the Republic of Texas
While you have vastly more experience using shore power than I (I only plug in maybe once a year), I don't think either of the above statements are good ideas.

Whether it will work most of the time, and is safe in the long term are two different things.

A typical 50' 50A 125V shore power cord is made with 6 ga. wire. The comparable 30A cord is 10 ga. This is a big difference in ampacity. While using a cord with less ampacity than recommended may indeed work, even for a while, the cord may suffer progressive deterioration (due to heat) and ultimately fail. Failures of cords can cause fires.
You say you only plug in once a year..." WOW"...now that is living off the grid. Does our S.C. government know who you are? Watch out for drones flying over head. Its just not spy satellite's any more. Remember to always wear a baseball cap and never look up!
Now back to our more fun electricial discussion.
The single 30amp 50' cord with 50amp dock side plug is only used as a convenience
for one night stays. And is not used 24/7. Second I am not trying to pull more then 30amps when in use. I beg to differ on the a 30amp cord total amp capacity, yes it can safely pull more then 30amps but only for short durations. I know this because my Dad is an electrician and grew up around electricity . Also remember to keep and eye on the white neutral on plug. This is were you will see the first signs of failure. That is why it is best to turn off breaker at dock and have main breaker off on boat. Its the sudden momentary contact that will cause arcing and burn marks on plug as your all devices try to make a sudden surge pull of electricty when first pluging in that will cause premature damage to end of cord and plug. The factory molded non service-able plug ends are the worst for premature failure. While the cord it self may still be good. Problem is a replacement service-able plug end alone will cost more then a whole new 30amp cord set.
regards
RR
 
Jun 25, 2012
942
hunter 356 Kemah,the Republic of Texas
Main Sail....Good post! Pretty much mirrors what I keep telling people. Is that the white neutral on that burned out plug on posted picture I see?
regards
RR
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Main Sail....Good post! Pretty much mirrors what I keep telling people. Is that the white neutral on that burned out plug on posted picture I see?
regards
RR
No, it was the black/hot wire... Neutral/white has the L shaped female socket...
 
Jun 25, 2012
942
hunter 356 Kemah,the Republic of Texas
Okay good to know. So if plug was wired right and dockside was correct. Did you check to see if the wiring was all correctly done on the boat? If all wiring is correct we know for sure it was either age or blade contacts were just dirty or just loose and not making good contact. Causing the over heating and burning of plug.
 
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