Electrical Problems??? Duplicate from Ask Catalina Sailors

[jonfreeman]

Had an interesting occurrence this weekend. Our 1999 C-310 is in great shape, and we had just left the anchorage at Jarrell's Cove in South Puget Sound, heading for home. We had been on battery power for 1.5 days, and the batteries are new this year. Still, Bank 1 started the engine (albeit cranked a TAD slow (!)), and we motored off.

About 30 minutes out, I noticed the engine was running about 10-15 degrees hotter than normal. Still, the ammeter was showing a healthy charge (as expected), and all seemed OK. I decided to keep an eye on it. About 10 minutes later, the ammeter went to ZERO, and the oil pressure light came on!

I stopped the engine, and checked the oil. Full up. Also looked for any obvious issues in the engine compartment, and finding none, started again. Engine was running a little warm (as before), but the light stayed on, and the ammeter was still dead. HOWEVER, the GPS said we were still outputting 13.5-14 volts... Shut her down again.

OK - What to do? Weather was beautiful, but NO wind. Nearby shores (north or south) were not particularly threatening, so anchoring would be definitely do-able. Could also call Vessel Assist, as we have unlimited towing.

Decided to switch battery banks, and see what happens. Lo and behold, the ammeter comes back on line, the light goes off, AND the temperature cools down to normal. Motored all the way home (about 4 hours) with no issues or incidents. It was hotter than blazes when we arrived, and we had a commitment, so buttoned her up, and headed home.

I have ONE idea that I haven't checked out yet, but thought I'd offer this up to the community. What do you think is the problem? (Or problems?) Anybody ever experience this?

Jon Freeman
C-310 "Summer Sojourn"
Seattle/Tacoma

 

[Tom J]

Jon, we haven't experianced the problem you had, but it sounds like you lost power to the instrument panel, perhaps through the ignition switch. If the switch is intermittant, maybe cycling the switch off and on brought the power back up. Or perhaps the battery switch contacts are oxidized, and cycling that switch helped. The fact that the GPS showed good battery voltage, indicates that the batteries were not at fault. It may take a little experimenting to determine just when the fault occurs. Good luck!

 

[txtowman]

gauge malfunction

One of the first things I do to any engine operated equipment or vehicle is install a remote manual(non-electric) oil pressure gauge. That way when the "factory" gauges go haywire I can make sure I am not doing any damage.
What would you have done if you could not restart the engine?

 

[jonfreeman]

One of the first things I do to any engine operated equipment or vehicle is install a remote manual(non-electric) oil pressure gauge. That way when the "factory" gauges go haywire I can make sure I am not doing any damage.
What would you have done if you could not restart the engine?

Not a bad idea (non-electric oil pressure). I am very mechanical, but have never done this, myself. Can you offer any details on the 25XPB as to how to do it?
As to WHAT I would have done if the engine hadn't started? Well, it IS a sailboat, but wind (lack of) was an issue. Still, I would have attempted to get under way, and get myself anchored. Or, barring that, call for a tow.
Jon

 

[Witzend]

The engine may have been running hotter from the additional load from the Alt. charging the Bat. Do you mean Voltage meter? The guage on the standard instrument panel is a voltage meter, not Amp meter. the fact that it was reading 0 means the connection to the battery was open. How about the selectable voltage meter on the panel below? Sounds like the contacts on the bat. selector opened up from the load across them from the heavy charging. With the stock wining your Alt. is only charging the Bat. that is selected.

 

[jonfreeman]

The engine may have been running hotter from the additional load from the Alt. charging the Bat. Do you mean Voltage meter? The guage on the standard instrument panel is a voltage meter, not Amp meter. the fact that it was reading 0 means the connection to the battery was open. How about the selectable voltage meter on the panel below? Sounds like the contacts on the bat. selector opened up from the load across them from the heavy charging. With the stock wining your Alt. is only charging the Bat. that is selected.

Thanks Witzend! I misspoke - It IS a VOLTmeter. Is it REALLY possible the contacts on the battery switch could open while charging? I had figured the higher temp might be due to charging, as it didn't continue climbing. BTW - I have an after market alternator and regulator. Guessing higher than stock, but not sure (previous owner add).

Haven't got down to the boat to run this down, but IF the battery switch really could be fratzing out, that would be something I probably couldn't see (or address without mere replacement). Any ideas on how to diagnose THAT?

 

[Witzend]

Take it apart if possible and clean the contacts.

 

[rpwillia]

Agree with Witzend

Check all of your connections especially at the selector switch as that is the common point. Sounds like a dirty contact.

 

[jonfreeman]

Well -

I went down friday, and checked the following items:
- Battery fluids - Good
- Battery charge - Good both banks (dockside charger was on for 5 days...)
- Connections at battery - did some cleaning and tightening, but no sign of arcing or heat damage.
- Connectors at selector switch - these SEEMED looser than appropriate, so tightened them.

I started the engine on the suspect bank, and all appears normal (voltmeter on, oil light off). Since I didn't find any OBVIOUS issues, I am still gonna keep looking. It would be great if the tightening of nuts is all that was required, but...

next up -

- Alternator connections
- Engine grounds

Jon Freeman
C-310 "Summer Sojourn"
Tacoma/Seattle

 

[Stu Jackson]

Jon, in most cases electrical problems, assuming things were fine to begin with and nothing's been changed, are ALL due to rotten CONNECTIONS.

 

[jonfreeman]

We are back from our San Juan trip, and the problem never recurred since I tightened all the connections. HOWEVER -

The first morning in Ludlow, we needed to be up and gone early to make the outgoing tide, and I went to start the engine and NOTHING! Thinking it might be the one place I hadn't looked, and that it might be related to THIS problem, I proceeded to take the gage pod apart (on the pedestal). Once opened, it was clear the connections were clean and tight, but I built a little test harness with a bulb and alligator clip wire to make sure 12V was getting out of the start and key switches (it was). SO - has to be either the starter or the solenoid (OH Joy, where to get parts on a Sunday...).

I pulled the engine hatch off and moved it forward, and proceeded to tighten all the connections, and ... WHERE the heck is the starter??? Looked and looked, and finally found it - PORT side under all the hoses and wires. HMMM - LOOK AT THAT!

The spade connector wire that plugs into the starter was off and just hanging there. Plugged it in, and pushed the starter button... VROOOM!

We lost an hour and a half, but we were finally off. The tides sucked a little going through the Pt Hudson area, but not terribly.

HOWEVER - In Garrison bay later in the week, the same thing happened, with the same problem - wire fell off. This time, I pinched the spade connector AND zip-tied the whole thing so it COULDN'T fall off. No problems the rest of the week.

Hopefully this will help someone else if they experience the same situation.

I DO wonder if this is related to the original problem??? If so, it is fixed.

Jon Freeman
C-310 "Summer Sojourn"

 

[paulj]

These are the connections I had to redo........and added some wire tyes.


paulj :troll:

 

[Stu Jackson]

The first thing to check when the starter doesn't turn over at all is NOT the start button

It IS the fuse between the start button and/or what you found, which is a new one on me after 12 years.

Good report.

 

[rpwillia]

Starter Connection

Doesn't the connection on the starter connect the output from the alternator to the battery. Was that the connector that was loose. That will definitely give you an indication of low voltage (e.g. 12vdc when you are expecting 13.5vdc from the alternator).

 

[Stu Jackson]

Basic Electrical 101

You may be interested in Reply #11, here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4949.0.html

The wiring between the starter and the alternator has a reason and this link explains the concept.

One of the best things you can do is remove the alternator output from the 1-2-B switch and run it to your house bank.

There are many other discussions I have written about the 1-2-B switch. You can do a search on the message board to find the others, if you're interested.

In the discussion about engine overheating, i invited you to join us on our board because we have the same engines. We also have pretty much the same electrical systems. Paul J and I have discussed his electrical system and come up with something that works well for him. We'd be glad to help.