Electrical issue

[Joe Roc]

So here's what I know. Today I tried to find out why Nothing is working. I am getting 13V on my positive buss bar in the panel. I flip switches and nothing comes on. So I'm assuming tha tthe issue is on the neg side. I see that there is NO wire that leads away from the neg buss to either the engine block or back to the neg post on the battery. This can't be right correct? Shouldn't the neg buss go back to the neg batt post or the engine block? This is so frustrating. When after your neg stuff comes back to the neg ground buss what happens next on your boat? I'm getting desperate! Thanks for your response! Can anyone out there answer this? I've had this boat since 2002 and its been great but last summer the electrical issues started ( power would just cut out and come back on etc. I assume this is a bad or broken connection but would it affect every thing?). I thought I knew the electrical on this boat pretty well but... HELP!!!!

 

[Jackdaw]

Re: 1978 Oday 28 electrical issue

13 volts on the + buss, measured from what ground? The battery? Start there, and move up the ground plane until you get zero volts.

 

[Joe Roc]

13 volts on the + buss, measured from what ground? The battery? Start there, and move up the ground plane until you get zero volts.

I measured from the positive panel buss. Grounded meter to the engine block. No?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Re: 1978 Oday 28 electrical issue

One of the most consistent issues folks report is that the ground connection on the engine has gone sour. Check that ground connection, even if it looks good. Take it completely off and check in detail.

You also have to figure out your own question.

Good luck.

 

[Joe Roc]

Thanks Stu. I guess what I'm asking is...what is the most common set up on this boat? Most commonly is the neg buss grounded to the neg batt post or the engine block? Because I've looked for a "suspect wire" leaving the block and I cannot find anything!!! Is there another 28 owner that can describe or photograph their boats electrical configuration?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Re: 1978 Oday 28 electrical issue

Joe, you essentially have three things: negative buss, battery ground and engine ground. You're right, they should all be connected. Since you're at the boat and we aren't, I'm not sure how much more anyone can help you from "here on the interwebbynettubiethingie." Good luck.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

Thanks Stu. I guess what I'm asking is...what is the most common set up on this boat? Most commonly is the neg buss grounded to the neg batt post or the engine block? Because I've looked for a "suspect wire" leaving the block and I cannot find anything!!! Is there another 28 owner that can describe or photograph their boats electrical configuration?

I think typical set ups for most inboards is that the negative bus is connected to your engine block and your battery negative is also connected to your engine block.

You could have a couple other negative buses. I have two, one behind the electrical panel and one in my battery storage area. I might even ad a third at the engine because both of my ground studs are double stacked.

Are you sure your negative bus isn't connected to the battery or the engine? What about the negative terminal on your battery?

Also, 13 cots seems a little high. Is it maybe 12.7 and you are rounding up?

 

[Joe Roc]

I was rounding up. It's 12.75V. I imagine the neg buss was tied to the block but like I said there seems to be no evidence if it that I can locate. I'm sure there's some simple fix that I'm not seeing. I just thought maybe another similar ODay owner could take a pic of their set up or make a schematic ?

 

[Ron20324]

slightly POSSIBLE THERE'S A BLOWN FUSE ON THE NEG BATTERY SIDE.

 

[centerline]

one thing you mentioned... you assume its the negative buss....

you seem to have found your way thru checking the positive side of things, but you can also check the negative side in the same manner.... im not trying to be condescending, but some people have an easy time of it when trouble shooting the straight and narrow, contained positive side of the system, but they become lost when working with the common ground side.... they dont know where to look or how to find what they are missing....

where does the battery ground to directly... engine block or primary buss? does it go thru a master switch first... or ever? the negative wire going to the panel buss may be hidden in the mess somewhere...
Stu already mentioned the ground at the engine block... it may be grounded fine, but the wire that is piggyback on that connection may be corroded.... and even when the lug connection is fine, the corrosion may be isolated and hidden inside of a crimp fitting.
use a sharp, pointy tester and stick it thru the coating on the wires coming off the lug to see if they all have power... or ground, as it may be.

you need to locate and check the ground at the battery and move downstream from there at every connection...because you dont know where the wire going to the panel buss is and you need to find it
and check every wire leaving the connection to see if there is continuity in it... and each wire that splits off at a junction, may have another junction that has to be checked in the same manner... if you find one without continuity, find out why. you will soon have the problem resolved.

 

[Joe Roc]

I'm not offended. My electrical knowledge is "okay" but I'm no expert. The batteries themselves ground directly to the engine block. As I've said the buss on the neg side doesn't "seem" to have a wire that grounds to the block. This is what I find mysterious. I'll be able to get on this again on Tuesday. I'll be using all of the advice I've read here so far. Hopefully I can get this straightened out. Just the same I may return with more questions because I dread paying the yard $90 an hour...

 

[centerline]

here are a few more trouble shooting questions...

...is this a new-to-you boat?... or has the electrical been working fine but just stopped delivering?
...can you identify where all the wires on the neg buss go to? if not, you should learn and mark them accordingly for future problems, component removal or installs
...is one wire on the buss bigger than all the rest?
...is there a fuse in any of the negative wires?
...for test purposes, with all components off, is there any sparking when you connect a temporary jumper directly from battery negative to the negative buss? if so, find out why!
...if it doesnt spark when you connect the temp wire from batt ground, does anything come on as it should?..... good luck with it

 

[Joe Roc]

here are a few more trouble shooting questions...

...is this a new-to-you boat?... or has the electrical been working fine but just stopped delivering?
...can you identify where all the wires on the neg buss go to? if not, you should learn and mark them accordingly for future problems, component removal or installs
...is one wire on the buss bigger than all the rest?
...is there a fuse in any of the negative wires?
...for test purposes, with all components off, is there any sparking when you connect a temporary jumper directly from battery negative to the negative buss? if so, find out why!
...if it doesnt spark when you connect the temp wire from batt ground, does anything come on as it should?..... good luck with it

I've owned the boat got 12 years

Until mid summer last year there was never a problem
Currently I'm trying to figure out where all the wires go. ( not an easy task)

Here's the issue. There doesn't seem to be a larger wire connected to the buss. This is what's confusing to me

No fuses

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

I've owned the boat got 12 years

Until mid summer last year there was never a problem
Currently I'm trying to figure out where all the wires go. ( not an easy task)

Here's the issue. There doesn't seem to be a larger wire connected to the buss. This is what's confusing to me

No fuses

MaineSail has written a number of times about manufactures using undersized wires. You might just have an undersized negative ground to the engine. What size are the wires? Any photos? What size is your positive wire?

You shouldn't have any fuses on the negative side.

Earlier you wrote that you tested the positive bus by touching the multimeter to the positive bus and then the engine. What happens when you test the positive bus to the negative bus?

According to the wiring diagram in the Oday 28 Owner's Manual (http://sbo.sailboatowners.com/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=viewlink&link_id=6370&Itemid=257), there is a ground from the negative bus (no size given) to the negative post of battery no. 2. Then both batteries are connected to a common wire that grounds to the engine. So you should have only one ground at your engine. How many wires are connected to your batteries' negative terminals?

From your Owner's Manual, there are 6 possible ground connections that could be bad and causing your problem. Have you inspected all of them?

 

[Joe Roc]

MaineSail has written a number of times about manufactures using undersized wires. You might just have an undersized negative ground to the engine. What size are the wires? Any photos? What size is your positive wire?

You shouldn't have any fuses on the negative side.

Earlier you wrote that you tested the positive bus by touching the multimeter to the positive bus and then the engine. What happens when you test the positive bus to the negative bus?

According to the wiring diagram in the Oday 28 Owner's Manual (http://sbo.sailboatowners.com/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=viewlink&link_id=6370&Itemid=257), there is a ground from the negative bus (no size given) to the negative post of battery no. 2. Then both batteries are connected to a common wire that grounds to the engine. So you should have only one ground at your engine. How many wires are connected to your batteries' negative terminals?

From your Owner's Manual, there are 6 possible ground connections that could be bad and causing your problem. Have you inspected all of them?

THANK YOU SO MUCH!! This is what I've wanted to see! An actual manual! The schematic will be infinitely helpful!

As to your questions a #8 wire feeds the panel buss from the battery switch. On the neg buss all wires are the same size. None are #8 wire. All wires are white. There are no fuses on the neg side. I have not tested the pos buss to the neg buss. What should the proper result be? Thanks again for the link to the manual! Huge help to me!

 

[Stu Jackson]

Joe, glad you finally got the info you originally asked for. One important thing to consider: that's how it was supposed to be when it left the factory, but you never know what a PO did. You NEED to trace your own wiring and make a wiring diagram of your own (which I figure you already know but just want to emphasize). I've had our boat for almost 15 years, and the PO had it for 12. He gave me a wiring diagram. When I investigated, it turned out to be wrong in many respects.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

THANK YOU SO MUCH!! This is what I've wanted to see! An actual manual! The schematic will be infinitely helpful!

As to your questions a #8 wire feeds the panel buss from the battery switch. On the neg buss all wires are the same size. None are #8 wire. All wires are white. There are no fuses on the neg side. I have not tested the pos buss to the neg buss. What should the proper result be? Thanks again for the link to the manual! Huge help to me!

No problem.

All wires are white? This might be your 120v system. Do you have a shore power system? Again, the wiring diagrams in the manual show white wires for the 120v side and black wires for the 12v side.

The result should be the same as when you test of the positive to the engine block.

 

[Joe Roc]

No problem.

All wires are white? This might be your 120v system. Do you have a shore power system? Again, the wiring diagrams in the manual show white wires for the 120v side and black wires for the 12v side.

The result should be the same as when you test of the positive to the engine block.

Most if the wires are white. Hmm now I wonder whether there isn't another neg buss. It's doubtful. I've been through every inch of this boat over the years and I feel I would've seen it.

And yes there is shore power which I've used maybe twice in my life. We're strictly mooring rats. Lol

 

[Deadline]

Keep it simple

Perhaps the circuit breaker went off. On my H320, it's buried in a lazerette and sometimes gets thrown by a stray life preserver. Do you know where yours is?

 

[Joe Roc]

Perhaps the circuit breaker went off. On my H320, it's buried in a lazerette and sometimes gets thrown by a stray life preserver. Do you know where yours is?

I'm unaware of any circuit breaker. Like I had said I've been through every inch of this boat over the years and have never seen one.