Electrical Controversey

Jun 21, 2004
3,116
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
I am having a back and forth debate (amicable) with a friend on measuring voltage drop along a 62ft 30amp marinco boat electrical cord. The cable run consists of a 50' cord with a 12' extension attached with a marinco plastic coupler. I am measuring the voltage at the dock box electrical outlet (120 volt / 30 amp) and then at the end of the 62 ft cable and arriving at the voltage drop by simply comparing the difference between the two readings. My friend says this is incorrect; you must have a load on to accurately determine the voltage drop. Any suggestions are most appreciated!
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,244
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
put a load on it and see what you get......i am thinking there will not be much difference on 120 v ac on that number 10 wire though
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,759
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
If there is no load there is no voltage drop. Turn the water heater on then measure it...
 

Dan_Y

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Oct 13, 2008
521
Hunter 36 Hampton
You need a load for best results. Open circuit voltage should be the same as the source. When current flows through the wire to a load and back you get a voltage drop along those two legs according to V=IxR. That's current in a dc circuit or real current in an ac circuit going to a resistive load like a heater. Also, under load, you may find excessive voltage drop across the extension connection, or at either end of the plug, especially if corroded. It may get warm due to the high resistance from corrosion when current is flowing, that's due to I^2xR heating ...you are dissipating power where ever there is resistance. That's why cords get warm and bad connections get hot and burn. That's a big reason Mainsail recommends the Smart Plug BTW because it has greater contact area and therefore less resistance. At any rate, proceed with caution when measuring. AC is unforgiving and can stop you heart.

A simple way to look at it is that's why your skill saw can stall under load on a 50 foot 16awg extension cord... the voltage drop is great to the point where the saws not happy with 90v. Thicker wire has less resistance per foot so less voltage drop. Plus the higher voltage at the load, the less current is drawn.

BTW, an out of phase reactive current also flows to inductive loads through the AC cord like motors and transformers that aren't power factor corrected. PF = 1 is purely resistive current (think toaster oven load) and the lowest total current flow for the real power produced at the load. PFs of 0.6 - 0.9 are typical. Good appliances are 0.9-0.95. For example, the good battery chargers like sterling and pronautic p are PF corrected and draw less current (less reactive current) for the DC amps produced.
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
you absolutely do need a load, and the more load you have, the higher the drop will be.... this is why we need bigger wire to carry heavier loads....
what you are measuring with the method you are using, is the resistance of the wire without a load on it.
 
Jun 21, 2004
3,116
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
Ok, you guys have me convinced! But, I am measuring a 9 volt drop from the dock outlet (source) to the end of the plug on the 62 foot run of cable. 111 volts from hot to common, same on hot to ground, and nothing from common to ground. Haven't had a chance to try another cable, measure resistance, etc. Guess I probably have a defective cord or bad plug.
 
Feb 29, 2016
7
french production boat blue water ketch Albany
I am with all the others and DanY writes it particullary well. One addition though: the more load you put on the end of the extension cord, the bigger the voltage drop will be!
Regarding your second post "measuring a 9 volt drop from the dock outlet (source) to the end of the plug on the 62 foot run of cable. 111 volts from hot to common, same on hot to ground, and nothing from common to ground."
I am not sure how US 110 volt is wired, but I assume common and ground are connected, and there you get the same measurement, from hot to either one of these.
As far as the 9 volt voltage differential (drop): it not clear to me how you measured that. Is the Voltage at the source 111 Volt and should it be 120 Volt? If that is the case, that will have nothing to do with your cord/cable, and the voltage loss has occurred further up the line.
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
I am not sure how US 110 volt is wired, but I assume common and ground are connected, and there you get the same measurement, from hot to either one of these.
the neutral and the ground are never connected together on the boat or boat products... Im not sure how the docks wire into the main circuit at the land based main breaker, but for safety, the circuits are supposed to be separated on the boats.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,759
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
the neutral and the ground are never connected together on the boat
Correct, but there are exceptions to the "never"....

or boat products...
AC neutral (white) and AC grounding (green) are never bonded to one another on board the vessel unless a generator is operational or an inverter is operational. Unless the inverter is inverting or the generator is generating there should never be continuity between AC Neutral & AC Green when you are unplugged from shore power and not inverting or generating.

Im not sure how the docks wire into the main circuit at the land based main breaker, but for safety, the circuits are supposed to be separated on the boats.
The dock pedestal neutral and safety ground are bonded back at the "AC source".
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Correct, but there are exceptions to the "never"....



AC neutral (white) and AC grounding (green) are never bonded to one another on board the vessel unless a generator is operational or an inverter is operational. Unless the inverter is inverting or the generator is generating there should never be continuity between AC Neutral & AC Green when you are unplugged from shore power and not inverting or generating.



The dock pedestal neutral and safety ground are bonded back at the "AC source".
Oops!... I forgot about boat with generators, and didnt know about the need for this when using inverters....
 
Jun 21, 2004
3,116
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
HA, the voltage at the dock pedestal is 120v; the voltage measured at the end of the 62 ft cable female plug is 111v.

To all others, if I want to measure the the voltage drop along the 62ft cable only, seems that by applying a load, such as a water heater, I am not measuring the drop exclusively for the cord but I would be measuring the voltage drop for the dock cord and the entire water heater circuit. What I really am trying to measure is the drop at the end of the 62 ft cord. How should I go about doing this?
 
May 17, 2004
6,152
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
If you're using the same meter to measure the voltage at the dock and at the end of the cord, and getting a 9V difference, then something seems seriously wrong. A volt meter shouldn't be drawing enough current for V=IR to be 9 volts unless the resistance of the cord is strangely high. What's the voltage at the end of the 50' cord?

To measure the voltage drop with the heater on, I'd recommend plugging in the boat and turning on the heater, then measuring the voltage at one of the outlets on the boat. That would be the drop of the cord, plus a little bit from the boat's wiring between the plug socket and the breaker panel.
 
Jun 21, 2004
3,116
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
Will do. Need to check the cord more thoroughly as all I have done is to check the cord for correct polarity and measured voltage. Much thanks for the help.