What was the speed through the water? A log drifting down the river will do almost 4kts.
Electric power, RE-E-Power
- Thread starter Florida sail
- Start date
- Status
What was the speed through the water? A log drifting down the river will do almost 4kts.
Ross,
I appreciate your advice as well as the advice of all that posted regarding this subject. I guess my next project is the attempt to figure out how to remote control the choke mechanism on my Tohatsu 9.8 so it can be totally remote. Thanks to all...
Fair winds,
>>ron<<
S/V Serenity
I appreciate your advice as well as the advice of all that posted regarding this subject. I guess my next project is the attempt to figure out how to remote control the choke mechanism on my Tohatsu 9.8 so it can be totally remote. Thanks to all...
Fair winds,
>>ron<<
S/V Serenity
The real benefit
would be if you are using the boat the way sailboats are usually used and get your charge from dock power while you are plugged in overnight and/or solar chargers while on the hook. I only need to run my engine for about ten minutes to get out to the open water where I can sail but I always run the engine for at least 30 minutes to give it a proper warmup. It is also much more pleasant to be motoring with a silent electrical motor than a diesel engine.
I use an electrical motor on my 14 ft whitehall. I started out with just a single deep cycle battery that was pretty small. When I started using the dinghy as a fishing boat I bought two Optima batteries hooked up in parallel and was amazed at the range I got. I troll with a downrigger and sometimes travel 5 miles to the fishing grounds. When I get back home I plug it in at the dock and it's ready to go in the morning. When I am cruising during the summer I plug the dinghy charger into an inverter on my sailboat and charge the house batteries with solar panels (260 watts).
The other benefit is that it might be time to start looking at alternatives to use less diesel for the future. Oh yeah and I almost forgot to mention no fumes when I am trolling with the wind at my back.
would be if you are using the boat the way sailboats are usually used and get your charge from dock power while you are plugged in overnight and/or solar chargers while on the hook. I only need to run my engine for about ten minutes to get out to the open water where I can sail but I always run the engine for at least 30 minutes to give it a proper warmup. It is also much more pleasant to be motoring with a silent electrical motor than a diesel engine.
I use an electrical motor on my 14 ft whitehall. I started out with just a single deep cycle battery that was pretty small. When I started using the dinghy as a fishing boat I bought two Optima batteries hooked up in parallel and was amazed at the range I got. I troll with a downrigger and sometimes travel 5 miles to the fishing grounds. When I get back home I plug it in at the dock and it's ready to go in the morning. When I am cruising during the summer I plug the dinghy charger into an inverter on my sailboat and charge the house batteries with solar panels (260 watts).
The other benefit is that it might be time to start looking at alternatives to use less diesel for the future. Oh yeah and I almost forgot to mention no fumes when I am trolling with the wind at my back.
Electric Propulsion for Sailboats
The quiet of electric motoring is wonderful. Trolling motors (although relatively inexpensive) will maneuver most small boats but will not overcome tides and currents. The larger electric motors will product the same types of thrust that internal combustion engines (ICE) do. Gasoline and diesel provide a compact source of energy, it is important to define what you want to accomplish with an electric system. The Queen Mary uses electric drive motors but has diesel engines running generators.
The Electric Boat Forum (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/) is a good place to look for information about different ways electric motors are being used to propel boats in general. Go through the archives - most questions have been asked before. Occasionally a thread will go off on an esoteric drift, but most stick to the topics.
Electric propulsion is ideal for sailboats since a sailboat hull is a displacement one and most efficient for battery capacity available. The different designs focus on solving different specific goals. The solutions fall into a handful of categories:
A) Small boat (less than 25') docking/maneuvering in the harbor/tenders using trolling motors (Minn Kota, Motor Guide, etc.). Simple way to add electric power for relatively short time usage. The 12 volt motors won't move any boat past 3 knots. The 24 and 36 volt motors will go as high as 5 knots. The propeller pitch is 4 inches. Cost is from less than $200 to $2000 depending on size and construction.
B) Electric Outboards (several manufacturers) which will perform like an ICE outboard. It is in essence an outboard lower end with an electric motor and controls replacing the internal combustion engine. Cost is $2500 to $6000 and higher - similar to an ICE outboard. These are ideal to replace an ICE outboard especially if the waters are classified as "electric only".
C) Electric motor replacements for ICE inboard. The existing drivetrain is used. Only the motor is replaced. Technology can be much like the electric outboards but can also be sized much larger for larger boats.
D) Electric Pod mounted motors (RE-E-Power is this type) that mount through the hull. These is wonderful if there is no existing inboard system and you do not want to have an outboard mounted motor. Cost is similar to the electric outboards.
----
None of the pricing above includes the batteries. When properly maintained, true deep discharge batteries last 5-7 years. There is a higher up-front cost for energy and you need to size your batteries to meet your needs. Recharging can be either from shore (at home or at a slip), solar/wind, or a portable generator.
I have been using an Endura 50 on my O'Day 19 (new from WalMart is <$200 from their on-line store). I consider it a "consumable" expecting 3-5 years use. I prefer using it to the ICE outboard but it has its limits. The ICE outboard does propel the boat to hull speed. But the set of four 6 volt golf-cart batteries provide me with enough battery power to go though the better part of a week without recharging.
I just acquired a Capri 22 and will continue to use the Endura 50 for this season due to the Admiral's influence of the budget priorities. We will be testing the 5 hp Nissan outboard that came with the Capri as to how it moves the boat in the tidal currents of the Piscataqua River in Portsmouth NH.
I will be attempting to answer these questions as a worst case scenario for my boating situation: a) "Will I be able to install enough batteries for the cruise out and in going against the tide both ways?"
b) "If not, would a small generator be able to make up the difference while out sailing?"
The Re-E-Power is on my short list. My wife does appreciate the quiet of electric motor-sailing when the wind does not cooperate with our sometimes fixed schedules.
Search "electric boat motors" on YouTube to view how the different electric motors propel boats at hull speeds. A Honda 1000 or 2000 should fit into the storage space that the fuel tank previously did...
John
Ron,
The quiet of electric motoring is wonderful. Trolling motors (although relatively inexpensive) will maneuver most small boats but will not overcome tides and currents. The larger electric motors will product the same types of thrust that internal combustion engines (ICE) do. Gasoline and diesel provide a compact source of energy, it is important to define what you want to accomplish with an electric system. The Queen Mary uses electric drive motors but has diesel engines running generators.
The Electric Boat Forum (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/) is a good place to look for information about different ways electric motors are being used to propel boats in general. Go through the archives - most questions have been asked before. Occasionally a thread will go off on an esoteric drift, but most stick to the topics.
Electric propulsion is ideal for sailboats since a sailboat hull is a displacement one and most efficient for battery capacity available. The different designs focus on solving different specific goals. The solutions fall into a handful of categories:
A) Small boat (less than 25') docking/maneuvering in the harbor/tenders using trolling motors (Minn Kota, Motor Guide, etc.). Simple way to add electric power for relatively short time usage. The 12 volt motors won't move any boat past 3 knots. The 24 and 36 volt motors will go as high as 5 knots. The propeller pitch is 4 inches. Cost is from less than $200 to $2000 depending on size and construction.
B) Electric Outboards (several manufacturers) which will perform like an ICE outboard. It is in essence an outboard lower end with an electric motor and controls replacing the internal combustion engine. Cost is $2500 to $6000 and higher - similar to an ICE outboard. These are ideal to replace an ICE outboard especially if the waters are classified as "electric only".
C) Electric motor replacements for ICE inboard. The existing drivetrain is used. Only the motor is replaced. Technology can be much like the electric outboards but can also be sized much larger for larger boats.
D) Electric Pod mounted motors (RE-E-Power is this type) that mount through the hull. These is wonderful if there is no existing inboard system and you do not want to have an outboard mounted motor. Cost is similar to the electric outboards.
----
None of the pricing above includes the batteries. When properly maintained, true deep discharge batteries last 5-7 years. There is a higher up-front cost for energy and you need to size your batteries to meet your needs. Recharging can be either from shore (at home or at a slip), solar/wind, or a portable generator.
I have been using an Endura 50 on my O'Day 19 (new from WalMart is <$200 from their on-line store). I consider it a "consumable" expecting 3-5 years use. I prefer using it to the ICE outboard but it has its limits. The ICE outboard does propel the boat to hull speed. But the set of four 6 volt golf-cart batteries provide me with enough battery power to go though the better part of a week without recharging.
I just acquired a Capri 22 and will continue to use the Endura 50 for this season due to the Admiral's influence of the budget priorities. We will be testing the 5 hp Nissan outboard that came with the Capri as to how it moves the boat in the tidal currents of the Piscataqua River in Portsmouth NH.
I will be attempting to answer these questions as a worst case scenario for my boating situation: a) "Will I be able to install enough batteries for the cruise out and in going against the tide both ways?"
b) "If not, would a small generator be able to make up the difference while out sailing?"
The Re-E-Power is on my short list. My wife does appreciate the quiet of electric motor-sailing when the wind does not cooperate with our sometimes fixed schedules.
Search "electric boat motors" on YouTube to view how the different electric motors propel boats at hull speeds. A Honda 1000 or 2000 should fit into the storage space that the fuel tank previously did...
John
Re: Electric Propulsion for Sailboats
In the early '70's GE came out with a battery electric lawn tractor and it was pretty good. Had three motors for the blades on the mower and a rather large one for traction. I haven't seen one since about 1975. As far as I know golf carts are the only truly successful electric vehicle in production. Edison was making electric cars a hundred years ago and they were very good but.............They just never caught on.
In the early '70's GE came out with a battery electric lawn tractor and it was pretty good. Had three motors for the blades on the mower and a rather large one for traction. I haven't seen one since about 1975. As far as I know golf carts are the only truly successful electric vehicle in production. Edison was making electric cars a hundred years ago and they were very good but.............They just never caught on.
Ahhhh.. I will beat the dead horse (or is it 0.7457 KW?) again.. Golf carts work great because the course distance is limited and constant. The course closes at night so the carts are charged during that time on “shore power”. Same with play cars that commuters will use on a restricted distance run.
I noticed in the new Sail Magazine that Styer had a hybrid kit/attachment for their motors that bolts to their engine where the bell housing goes. It contains a 7KW (about 9.5 hp) electric motor/generator that can be coupled or uncoupled to the diesel. It has a computer control system that makes it work kinda like the system in a Pryus or similar, and can use the generator while powering on the diesel to charge the battery.. Pretty nice until ya notice that the price is $15,000, without the batteries. You’d have to save about 4000 gallons of diesel to make it pay out.. I just don’t think this is a good avenue for long power draws of fairly high power. The Re E Power system a fine way to push a small day sailor in and out and is probably fine for folks who want to limit the distance that they can motor.. This stuff does not fit into my idea (yes it is considerably biased!) of what a sailboat should be capable of doing.
I noticed in the new Sail Magazine that Styer had a hybrid kit/attachment for their motors that bolts to their engine where the bell housing goes. It contains a 7KW (about 9.5 hp) electric motor/generator that can be coupled or uncoupled to the diesel. It has a computer control system that makes it work kinda like the system in a Pryus or similar, and can use the generator while powering on the diesel to charge the battery.. Pretty nice until ya notice that the price is $15,000, without the batteries. You’d have to save about 4000 gallons of diesel to make it pay out.. I just don’t think this is a good avenue for long power draws of fairly high power. The Re E Power system a fine way to push a small day sailor in and out and is probably fine for folks who want to limit the distance that they can motor.. This stuff does not fit into my idea (yes it is considerably biased!) of what a sailboat should be capable of doing.
- Status