electric engine in sailboat

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Franklin

Franklin

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Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
I know this has been talked about a little bit but after reading about the Telsa car, I'd have to believe it can be done on a sailboat too.

220 miles to a charge with only 3.5 hours to re-charge from a dead battery. Sounds like a full tank of fuel with the ability to re-charge from the prop.

The thing about the electric motor is that it's perfect for boats because boats only use one gear and it's perfect for a sailboat because it's quiet.

http://www.teslamotors.com/
 
Franklin

Franklin

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Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
oh yeah....they say the batteries will last 100,000 miles before any degrading of miles to a charge. Hard to believe, but hope it to be true.
 
Franklin

Franklin

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Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
so you could be sailing across the ocean, run into no wind, motor out of it and then re-charge the batteries while the wind blows so you can do it again later. It's like having a fuel dock in the middle of the ocean :)
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
That sounds attractive . If you have 50 per cent slip while motoring will you also have 50 per cent slip while charging? Will that mean charging for 300 miles if you motor for 200 miles? Will sailing while charging be like sailing while running the motor in reverse?
 
Franklin

Franklin

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Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
Ross said:
That sounds attractive . If you have 50 per cent slip while motoring will you also have 50 per cent slip while charging? Will that mean charging for 300 miles if you motor for 200 miles? Will sailing while charging be like sailing while running the motor in reverse?
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don't think so, because we already lock the prop which is a greater drag then having it spin under resistance.
 
George H260

George H260

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Aug 11, 2006
1,446
Hunter H260 Traverse City
Electric and Hybrid Propulsion for Sailboats

Practical Sailor did an article on this subject last September.

http://www.practical-sailor.com/iss...d-Hybrid-Propulsion-for-Sailboats_5661-1.html


How soon will electric auxiliary engines be available to all sailboat owners? Opinions differ on whether the concept of electric propulsion itself is viable in recreational sailboats. Opinions also differ as to what system is best: a pure diesel-electric drive train with a hybrid-electric drive with a diesel generator as a back up or a pure electric drive with regeneration capability. Practical Sailor talked with companies developing DC motors.
 
Warren Milberg

Warren Milberg

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Dec 1, 1999
2,391
Hunter 28.5 Chesapeake Bay
About 10 years ago, there was a an old Columbia 28 at my marina in which the original A-4 had been torn out and replaced with an electric motor by a company -- name escapes me -- that was using it as a test bed for electric motors in sailboats. It was a very nice installation that cost about the same it might cost to replace a new diesel (+/- $10k). I seem to recall that battery bank was massive and weighty. Also, that it only had a range of about 50 miles before recharging was necessary. So, you'd need a pretty long extension cord if you were going offshore with this machine....:dance:

PS: I don't think the company making these motors/installations succeeded.
 
Franklin

Franklin

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Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
Warren Milberg said:
About 10 years ago, there was a an old Columbia 28 at my marina in which the original A-4 had been torn out and replaced with an electric motor by a company -- name escapes me -- that was using it as a test bed for electric motors in sailboats. It was a very nice installation that cost about the same it might cost to replace a new diesel (+/- $10k). I seem to recall that battery bank was massive and weighty. Also, that it only had a range of about 50 miles before recharging was necessary. So, you'd need a pretty long extension cord if you were going offshore with this machine....:dance:
Click to expand
But, the new technology uses a much lighter and strong battery pack that has more miles and less weight. Also, fuel weight is a lot too. My tank full is 260 lbs.

As for re-charging, use the feel wheeling prop (I forget the name of that but it's existing technology already in use). And this I find the best advantage. You can't get fuel in the middle of the ocean easily, but if you can charge batteries by sailing, then you can use it all up to get to the wind, and then re-fill the tank (batteries) while sailing.
 
Franklin

Franklin

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Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
if they can fit Output 248 peak horsepower in an engine the size of a watermelon, then just think how small the engine would be for a 40 horsepower engine.
 
Ctskip

Ctskip

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Sep 21, 2005
732
other 12 wet water
Why can't they come up with a electric motor that charges itself? Draw power to operate on one end, while charging on the other. If it sounds to good to be true, you can rest assured a oil company owns it.

Keep it up,
Ctskip
 
Tim R.

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
The price on the Tesla is pretty steep. It was actually developed by a couple of computer geeks who threw electric car technology out the window and reinvented it using laptop battery technology.
 
Brian Schwerdt

Brian Schwerdt

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Sep 29, 2008
93
Oday 22 Oneida Lake, Syracuse, NY
Franklin said:
if they can fit Output 248 peak horsepower in an engine the size of a watermelon, then just think how small the engine would be for a 40 horsepower engine.
Click to expand
Franklin,

Unfortunately, while this is true, the larger the electric engine is, the more efficient it is. This is in direct contrast to gasoline/deisel engines. Unfortunately, this throws out the conventional wisdom encapsulated in "just think how small the engine would be...". It's just doesn't scale the same way. This does not mean that I disagree with your overriding point, though. I would love to put an electric motor onto my boat, and the though of using it as a generator (nautical "regenerative braking") is intriguing. I wonder how much electricity could be generated by this setup. Could it possible offset energy otherwise gathered by expensive solar panels/windmills?
 
kloudie1

kloudie1

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Nov 6, 2006
10,048
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Electric Motor In Sailboat

Just a couple of thumbnail observations.. The battery in the Telsa is 59 Kilowatt Hours at 400 Volts.. Weighs 950 pounds.. Rated for 500 deep discharge cycles.. I don't doubt that they can get 200 miles at slow speed in a car but a boat is a different animal.. Say you run your diesel at 10 horsepower.. a light load for a 25-30 HP diesel.. That is 7.5 Kilowats, constantly required to drive the prop.. What that says is that the battery from the TELSA would last about 8 hours at that output..Call that at 6 Kts, = 48 miles..with perfect efficiency.. (not likely) Fine for day sailing and around-the lakes... But here is the rub.. if you've just depleated your battery offshore, you need to replenish it and drive the boat if the wind has not piped up or if you are in a canal where you can't sail.. So if you do any long distance sailing at all, ya still have to have the diesel.. The fuel cell is where the future action is going to be! It will convert a hydrocarbon fuel to electricity at a much better efficiency number than that at which the diesel makes horsepower. I saw the Ford Fusion fuel cell powered car go over 200 MPH at Bonneville .. and the Buckeye Bullett Fuel cell streamliner went 285 mph or so.. They use hydrogen, but the conversion cells are on the way.
 
M

MoonSailer

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Jun 7, 2007
875
Pearson- 323- Mobile,Al
electric is a natural for a sailboat. The battery bank could be used while at anchor and recharged with wind,solar and current while at anchor!!!!! I don't understand why it costs so much. An electric motor is soooo simple to make when compared to a diesel engine. Also you need less hp as the electric can be direct drive as the electric can have tremendous torgue and be reversible!!!!! If the companies would not be so greedy wanting a huge profit on each unit they could sell a lot of units and make more money. Maybe the Japanese or Chinese will produce some units...they don't seem to be so greedy. http://www.solomontechnologies.com/augusta_canal_launches.htm
 
Tim R.

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
MoonSailer said:
electric is a natural for a sailboat. The battery bank could be used while at anchor and recharged with wind,solar and current while at anchor!!!!! I don't understand why it costs so much. An electric motor is soooo simple to make when compared to a diesel engine. Also you need less hp as the electric can be direct drive as the electric can have tremendous torgue and be reversible!!!!! If the companies would not be so greedy wanting a huge profit on each unit they could sell a lot of units and make more money. Maybe the Japanese or Chinese will produce some units...they don't seem to be so greedy. http://www.solomontechnologies.com/augusta_canal_launches.htm
Click to expand
Chalk it up to recovering development costs not greed. If the technology takes hold, many of the companies that do this will cease to exist and then the volume will go up for the others and the price will drop.

I am sure the price will drop when the Chinese rip off the technology and build cheap clones. The Japanese will take the tecnology and make it better and use the trade deficit to kill the american companies(you can blame our guvment for this one).

Stepping down from the soapbox.
 
RanAweigh

RanAweigh

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Sep 25, 2008
37
Catalina 27 Old Saybrook
In the past few months I have been seeing a few boats that have been converted to non-combustion machinery. It seemed intriguing to me as well. BUT,they all seemed to have some things in common.
1. Auxiliary propulsion seems to be limited to a couple of hours
2. They were for sale

Here is a couple of links to one such vessel of the three or four that I can remember.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sxx_OwhCCc&feature=related
http://www.electricyacht.com/electric-yacht-conversion/tranquility.html
http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/index.php/2008/04/23/911-stabbing-call-in-harwich?blog=80

Ran
 
BobM

BobM

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Jun 10, 2004
3,269
S2 9.2A Winthrop, MA
I thought I'd heard that the originator of the Tesla concept got kicked out under protest. I have been following this a little bit and its seems like it is a coin toss whether they will ever go into full production.

By the way, what we need is a way to stow batteries as ballast..be a bit of a shock if you had a serious grounding though ;-)
 
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George H260

George H260

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Aug 11, 2006
1,446
Hunter H260 Traverse City
As you point out, simple economics doomed it. Electric Motor $10,000 + $200,000 for the extension cord.
 
kloudie1

kloudie1

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Nov 6, 2006
10,048
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Couple more numbers.. A typical wind generator puts out about 140 watts in a ten kt breeze.. That charger would take 420 hours, 17 days, to recharge a fully depleated Telsa Battery..
There are some physics and energy density things that go against a constant power demand being provided by batteries.. The good thing is that Telsa battery could run an electric coffee pot for a month or so and could run a boat air conditioner for 4-5 days !! Cruising World Magazine had an article recently about Nigel Calder's new high tech boat in which he's installed a hybred propulsion system..
 
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