I now understand why you are considered the Diva of MSDS!!!!! I know you've answered these questions millions of times, but please, one more time for the novice sailboat owner!!!!!!! Problem: waste water returns to the bowl after flushing. Not always right away, but almost always after getting underway. Solutions so far: I ordered your super delux bowl cleaner, good stuff! I use only fresh water to flush, I have pumped holding tank at pump out stations and used the macerator to empty holding tank. But, egads the thing has a life of its own!!! Our boat is an '87 catalina, the head is an Groco model HF. A very sweet boat with a very bad smell at times. Thank you in advance.
- Status
NO head smell flush
COLUMNBINE 1988 Model #5153 used to have bad head flush odor. Our solution was to not open the thru hull for flushing. Instead, we flush with the water in the sink from washing our hands. Just move the toilet lever to wet, and pump the toilet. This system also eliminates the problem of pumping excess water into the holding tank when flushing. We switched to this method when we had problems with people leaving the thru hull open under sail and at anchor and risking flooding of the wash basin and the boat.
COLUMNBINE 1988 Model #5153 used to have bad head flush odor. Our solution was to not open the thru hull for flushing. Instead, we flush with the water in the sink from washing our hands. Just move the toilet lever to wet, and pump the toilet. This system also eliminates the problem of pumping excess water into the holding tank when flushing. We switched to this method when we had problems with people leaving the thru hull open under sail and at anchor and risking flooding of the wash basin and the boat.
Among other things, rebuild or replace the toilet
There's a cup shaped rubber valve in the discharge fitting of your toilet that has a slit in it which is called a "joker" valve. Until it's worn out, it only allows water etc to pass through it in one direction--out of the bowl...but over time the slit doesn't close completely any more, and begins to leak. Like every other rubber and neprene part in the toilet, the joke valve should be replaced every year or so. However, replacing ONLY the joke valve is a bit like changing the oil in your engine without changing the filter...because all the other rubber and neoprene parts in a toilet are seeing just as much wear. Every head mfr offers "rebuild" or "repair" kits for each of their models, and all the parts in 'em should be used. But--when it comes to the low-end toilets like the Jabsco, the Groco HF, the Wilcox Headmate and one or two others, the kits can cost half as much as replacing the whole toilet...which is why I refer to any toilet you can buy at discount for under $150 as a "disposable" model. It makes better economic sense...requires less work...and you'll consistently have a toilet that's more reliable if you just replace the d'd thing every 2-3 years instead of spending the price of a new toilet on a couple of rebuild kits in the same time frame. So if your toilet is more than a few years old, replace it. However...something is pushing waste back into the bowl. It may not be coming up the discharge...sea water trapped in the intake can take on a life of its own too. So there are a couple of things to check: if there isn't a vented loop between the toilet and the tank, install one. Heeling can send the contents of even a half-full tank back toward the toilet. If you have a y-valve in the head discharge line that allows you to go overboard at sea...or one in the holding tank pumpout line that, along with a macerator, lets you dump the tank at sea, NEVER leave ANY of them in the overboard position and ALWAYS keep the seacocks--both intake and discharge--closed except when the head is actually in use. And, there MUST be a vented loop between a macerator and a seacock. What's coming back, may not be coming from the tank. Urine crystals can build up in the head discharge hose over time, restricting flow and trapping "stuff" in any low spots in the toilet. When you disconnect that hose to either replace or rebuild your toilet, if that's your problem it will be obvious.
There's a cup shaped rubber valve in the discharge fitting of your toilet that has a slit in it which is called a "joker" valve. Until it's worn out, it only allows water etc to pass through it in one direction--out of the bowl...but over time the slit doesn't close completely any more, and begins to leak. Like every other rubber and neprene part in the toilet, the joke valve should be replaced every year or so. However, replacing ONLY the joke valve is a bit like changing the oil in your engine without changing the filter...because all the other rubber and neoprene parts in a toilet are seeing just as much wear. Every head mfr offers "rebuild" or "repair" kits for each of their models, and all the parts in 'em should be used. But--when it comes to the low-end toilets like the Jabsco, the Groco HF, the Wilcox Headmate and one or two others, the kits can cost half as much as replacing the whole toilet...which is why I refer to any toilet you can buy at discount for under $150 as a "disposable" model. It makes better economic sense...requires less work...and you'll consistently have a toilet that's more reliable if you just replace the d'd thing every 2-3 years instead of spending the price of a new toilet on a couple of rebuild kits in the same time frame. So if your toilet is more than a few years old, replace it. However...something is pushing waste back into the bowl. It may not be coming up the discharge...sea water trapped in the intake can take on a life of its own too. So there are a couple of things to check: if there isn't a vented loop between the toilet and the tank, install one. Heeling can send the contents of even a half-full tank back toward the toilet. If you have a y-valve in the head discharge line that allows you to go overboard at sea...or one in the holding tank pumpout line that, along with a macerator, lets you dump the tank at sea, NEVER leave ANY of them in the overboard position and ALWAYS keep the seacocks--both intake and discharge--closed except when the head is actually in use. And, there MUST be a vented loop between a macerator and a seacock. What's coming back, may not be coming from the tank. Urine crystals can build up in the head discharge hose over time, restricting flow and trapping "stuff" in any low spots in the toilet. When you disconnect that hose to either replace or rebuild your toilet, if that's your problem it will be obvious.
Smell?
I have noticed the same problem with my Groco HF. However I read in "Good Old Boat" a recommendation to put a vented loop in the INTAKE line to prevent siphoning from the intake thru-hull. I concluded from that article (which I read this winter) that I would either vent the intake or shut off the thru-hull when the head is not in use to prevent siphoning.(recommended by Peggie) I assume that siphoning from the intake only occurs when the bowl of the head is below the waterline. Also I'm assuming that the water is coming in from the INTAKE side and filling the bowl to seek its own level outside the hull. Does this make sense?
I have noticed the same problem with my Groco HF. However I read in "Good Old Boat" a recommendation to put a vented loop in the INTAKE line to prevent siphoning from the intake thru-hull. I concluded from that article (which I read this winter) that I would either vent the intake or shut off the thru-hull when the head is not in use to prevent siphoning.(recommended by Peggie) I assume that siphoning from the intake only occurs when the bowl of the head is below the waterline. Also I'm assuming that the water is coming in from the INTAKE side and filling the bowl to seek its own level outside the hull. Does this make sense?
Siphoning
If the level of the head is at or below the water line the intake water will "find it's own level" if allowed to do so. The intake valve must be kept closed. I keep my thru-hull closed as well when underway or the head is not being used.
If the level of the head is at or below the water line the intake water will "find it's own level" if allowed to do so. The intake valve must be kept closed. I keep my thru-hull closed as well when underway or the head is not being used.
Jan's only flushing with fresh water...but--
There's an article in the Head Mistress Reference library called Intake Odor (or something like that) which describes a way to solve stinky seawater intake problems. A vented loop in the intake--which, btw, has to go between the pump and the bowl...if you put it between the thru-hull and the pump, the head can't prime--will solve the high water problem in the bowl, but it won't do a thing for the dead and decaying sealife in stagnant seawater trapped in the intake, pump and channel in the rim of the bowl.
There's an article in the Head Mistress Reference library called Intake Odor (or something like that) which describes a way to solve stinky seawater intake problems. A vented loop in the intake--which, btw, has to go between the pump and the bowl...if you put it between the thru-hull and the pump, the head can't prime--will solve the high water problem in the bowl, but it won't do a thing for the dead and decaying sealife in stagnant seawater trapped in the intake, pump and channel in the rim of the bowl.
- Status