From Bill; 1997 Cat 22 at S. Shores NC I previously posted message concerning possible reasons for keel cable break especially under the swage. I now post this as a seperate topic because the answers I got included those from people who used boat in salt water for more than 20 years with no ill effects on the cable--same cable the entire time. However both of those people appear to have kept the boat on trailer rather than at dock. In my case more than 5 years continuous in brackish water at the slip failed to produce any corrosion under the swage or any where else. So once again I ask what accounts for the cable wear that is supposed to be frequent and is the salt water threat greatly exaggerated by Cataina Direct who advise changing cable every 2 years. Those who responded to my previous thread about "why cable breaks" emphasized importance of frequent inspections of cable. However that misses the point of Catalina Directs advice: they point out that you cannot see under the swage and they say that is most frequent point of corrosion. I sawed my swage open on the old cable to find that there was no corrosion. So I ask again why is there no corrosion in salt or salty water in the experience of at least several of us and is it the loosely flapping unwound cable that produces the stress or the vibrating humming cable produced by taking up the slack a turn or two? I always eliminate hum by loosening turn or two with--as I say--no ill effects.
effect salt water on keel cable
- Thread starter Bill21281
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My Cable Did Break
I don't know how old the cable of my '86 C22 was, but last year it broke. My mooring is in salt water and can get shallow at low tide so my habit was to raise the keel before leaving the boat, 27 turns to full up. On turn 25 it broke and visions of water flooding in thru the keel trunk ran thru my head. Luckily, no such damage. The big problem then was, How to raise the keel to get the boat on the trailer. What I was able to do at the dock was to snag the keel with a line drawn down both sides of the boat from the bow and after several attemps secure it in the up position. It worked and when I finally got the cable out, it had broken right at the swage. I replaced the cable and will order another new cable to have on hand and would recomend a full inspection every year. The sound that the 600# keel made when it hit the trunk and didn't split the boat in half was enough to make me want to change the cable every year.
I don't know how old the cable of my '86 C22 was, but last year it broke. My mooring is in salt water and can get shallow at low tide so my habit was to raise the keel before leaving the boat, 27 turns to full up. On turn 25 it broke and visions of water flooding in thru the keel trunk ran thru my head. Luckily, no such damage. The big problem then was, How to raise the keel to get the boat on the trailer. What I was able to do at the dock was to snag the keel with a line drawn down both sides of the boat from the bow and after several attemps secure it in the up position. It worked and when I finally got the cable out, it had broken right at the swage. I replaced the cable and will order another new cable to have on hand and would recomend a full inspection every year. The sound that the 600# keel made when it hit the trunk and didn't split the boat in half was enough to make me want to change the cable every year.
My boat was continually moored
The iron keel, being the least tolerant metal of the bunch takes all the corrosion. The cable and swage do not. I stand by my previous post. Don't worry about it, just inspect it once in a while and enjoy your boat.
The iron keel, being the least tolerant metal of the bunch takes all the corrosion. The cable and swage do not. I stand by my previous post. Don't worry about it, just inspect it once in a while and enjoy your boat.
explain keel hits trunk when cable breaks
This is the great fear, but I have never understood the mechanics. If cable breaks the keel swings down on the pivot point at the forward end of the keel. It seems to me that in oreder to hit the keel trunk the keel would have to continue its forward swing past the vertical position and defy gravity by swinging forward and upward. I suppose, like any free swinging pendulum, it can continue under its own momentum to swing upward and forward in that way but the water itself must offer some resistance as does the opening in the keel trunk which in my boat is quite tight. Am I correct--are we talking about an upward and forward swing of the keel past the vertical as it drops in free fall? If so, I wonder how many owners have, like you, experienced such a fall, and of that number, how many boats were damaged.
This is the great fear, but I have never understood the mechanics. If cable breaks the keel swings down on the pivot point at the forward end of the keel. It seems to me that in oreder to hit the keel trunk the keel would have to continue its forward swing past the vertical position and defy gravity by swinging forward and upward. I suppose, like any free swinging pendulum, it can continue under its own momentum to swing upward and forward in that way but the water itself must offer some resistance as does the opening in the keel trunk which in my boat is quite tight. Am I correct--are we talking about an upward and forward swing of the keel past the vertical as it drops in free fall? If so, I wonder how many owners have, like you, experienced such a fall, and of that number, how many boats were damaged.
The pendulum swings . . .
Bill: Get to know the mechanics of your keel, it will help you along the way. First of all, your keel does not go down all the way to vertical. It stops with a swept-back angle of about 15-20 degrees. The trunk 'breaking' thing happens when the keel reaches its stopping point while it is moving at a high rate of speed (like if the cable breaks). Our friend Charlie obviously was in shallow enough water when he broke the cable, and the keel hit bottom before it wacked the keel trunk. Should the keel cable break, the keel will not go to a vertical position and stop. It will keep going like a pendulum, until it runs into something, usually the keel trunk.
Bill: Get to know the mechanics of your keel, it will help you along the way. First of all, your keel does not go down all the way to vertical. It stops with a swept-back angle of about 15-20 degrees. The trunk 'breaking' thing happens when the keel reaches its stopping point while it is moving at a high rate of speed (like if the cable breaks). Our friend Charlie obviously was in shallow enough water when he broke the cable, and the keel hit bottom before it wacked the keel trunk. Should the keel cable break, the keel will not go to a vertical position and stop. It will keep going like a pendulum, until it runs into something, usually the keel trunk.
The keel stops here.
This illustration shows what part of the keel will hit what part of the trunk if it is free to swing. Ignore the red arrow as it refering to the hangar bearings.
This illustration shows what part of the keel will hit what part of the trunk if it is free to swing. Ignore the red arrow as it refering to the hangar bearings.
Keel Cable
I keep my C-22 in the waters of Puget Sound all Summer (salt water). I've had no problems with my keel cable now 3 years old. While the boat is in the water, I have no stress on the cable due to the fact that I never raise it while I'm sailing. I know that many people think you can sail faster down wind with the keel up, but hey, I'm no racer I'm a pure cruiser. The only time I have tension on the keel cable is when I take the boat out of the water and that's maybe 10 minutes. As soon as I'm on the trailer, I release the tension, take the boat home 8 miles away and hose the entire boat down. I keep it simple, low tech and cruisable. Roger
I keep my C-22 in the waters of Puget Sound all Summer (salt water). I've had no problems with my keel cable now 3 years old. While the boat is in the water, I have no stress on the cable due to the fact that I never raise it while I'm sailing. I know that many people think you can sail faster down wind with the keel up, but hey, I'm no racer I'm a pure cruiser. The only time I have tension on the keel cable is when I take the boat out of the water and that's maybe 10 minutes. As soon as I'm on the trailer, I release the tension, take the boat home 8 miles away and hose the entire boat down. I keep it simple, low tech and cruisable. Roger
where does free swinging keel hit trunk?
From Bill--the original poster of the question-- Apparently, as the next respondent points out the keel never normally reaches the vertical. I did not realize that. So, according to the diagram if the keel continues to try and fall when the cable breaks, it will try to reach the vertical position and the pivoting end of the keel--the portion in the trunk--will bang against the aft end of the trunk. Is that correct?
From Bill--the original poster of the question-- Apparently, as the next respondent points out the keel never normally reaches the vertical. I did not realize that. So, according to the diagram if the keel continues to try and fall when the cable breaks, it will try to reach the vertical position and the pivoting end of the keel--the portion in the trunk--will bang against the aft end of the trunk. Is that correct?
keel trunk
I can answer that question for you as I just had my keel off and repaired the gel where the keel had rested when down all these years. The keel hits just at the top of the curve in the trunk at least thats where it does on mine, although this would be a very strong area, iron vs glass well you get the picture. On my boat the gel had rubbed off exposing the mat. I used epoxy to make the repair. I also took the time to remove the sharp angle on the keel before putting it back on the boat.
I can answer that question for you as I just had my keel off and repaired the gel where the keel had rested when down all these years. The keel hits just at the top of the curve in the trunk at least thats where it does on mine, although this would be a very strong area, iron vs glass well you get the picture. On my boat the gel had rubbed off exposing the mat. I used epoxy to make the repair. I also took the time to remove the sharp angle on the keel before putting it back on the boat.
Additional Note of Interest
Bob B.-Edmonton,AB--Great Diagram. Where did you locate it? Ken -PPYC--I had to do a gel repair like yours and went a step further. Cut a 1"x3" piece of side wall from a car tire and used liquid nail to placed it right where the keel touches. Gives me that added edge here in Florida when you sometimes touch a sand bar briefly and keep going as the keel returns to its full down position. Good topic and good replies.
Bob B.-Edmonton,AB--Great Diagram. Where did you locate it? Ken -PPYC--I had to do a gel repair like yours and went a step further. Cut a 1"x3" piece of side wall from a car tire and used liquid nail to placed it right where the keel touches. Gives me that added edge here in Florida when you sometimes touch a sand bar briefly and keep going as the keel returns to its full down position. Good topic and good replies.
Winch/cable/keel diagram. Aldo?
Bob W. Palm Coast FL. I had saved the diagram in a file. I was new to this forum & had seen people referring to a cable turning ball. I didn't know what the ball was because my C22 doesn't have one. I asked the question & received a lot of info on the subject. Someone posted this diagram & noted that the ball is actually higher than illustrated. Aldo even found his spare, took a picture & posted it for me. Many thanks to all. BTW where is Aldo? He was a frequent poster & a good source of info. Regards, Bob B.
Bob W. Palm Coast FL. I had saved the diagram in a file. I was new to this forum & had seen people referring to a cable turning ball. I didn't know what the ball was because my C22 doesn't have one. I asked the question & received a lot of info on the subject. Someone posted this diagram & noted that the ball is actually higher than illustrated. Aldo even found his spare, took a picture & posted it for me. Many thanks to all. BTW where is Aldo? He was a frequent poster & a good source of info. Regards, Bob B.
I'm Still Here
Bob: I'm still here. We are still enjoying our C-22 as much as ever. It was a nice summer on the Chesapeake, and we really enjoyed our summer cruise with Catalina 22 Fleet 10 from Anapolis MD. Only a few of the boats in the fleet are still 22s, but that's OK. Our boat is still in the water and my wife and I had a nice day sail last Saturday. We have started shopping again, (and a little more seriously this time), for a C-25, and it's NOT much fun. We are very particular about what we are looking for, since we have had our C-22 for 25 years, and know our boat and know what we like, what we want, and the way we are. What we really want is a boat like our C-22, but with more room for our sons. I could go on and on, but that's where I've been. One problem with C-25s is that people spend tons of money on them, and then when they go to sell them expect to get it back. Their boat may not be worth what they want, and then their feelings get hurt when you offer them what you think their boat is actually worth. Maybe a little snow blowing around will help with this issue. Aldo
Bob: I'm still here. We are still enjoying our C-22 as much as ever. It was a nice summer on the Chesapeake, and we really enjoyed our summer cruise with Catalina 22 Fleet 10 from Anapolis MD. Only a few of the boats in the fleet are still 22s, but that's OK. Our boat is still in the water and my wife and I had a nice day sail last Saturday. We have started shopping again, (and a little more seriously this time), for a C-25, and it's NOT much fun. We are very particular about what we are looking for, since we have had our C-22 for 25 years, and know our boat and know what we like, what we want, and the way we are. What we really want is a boat like our C-22, but with more room for our sons. I could go on and on, but that's where I've been. One problem with C-25s is that people spend tons of money on them, and then when they go to sell them expect to get it back. Their boat may not be worth what they want, and then their feelings get hurt when you offer them what you think their boat is actually worth. Maybe a little snow blowing around will help with this issue. Aldo
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