early vega lower bilge drain screw

pjacobs55 · Mar 20, 2010

Karl,
My Vega had a machine screw about 1 inch long in this hole, threaded directly into the fiberglass and sealed with caulk of some kind.

After removing it I got some water out ... about a cupful ... and later poked a small cotton string into the hole and let it dangle below the keel into a small bucket. This removed about one cup more water, then stopped.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
.

peterjmaud · Mar 25, 2010

Karl and Peter, When I removed the machine screw
last Fall from my boat water poured out full
force for well over five minutes. It continued to
trickle for quite some time afterwards. I do have
some hairline fractures in the leading edge of the keel
(which leaked some water when I first bought the
boat). I am currently working on repairing them.
Peter M.At 09:36 PM 3/20/2010, you wrote:

tim_klynn · Mar 25, 2010

My boat also has a small hairline crack at the bottom leading edge of the keel. I have never had much water in the bilge, but did have a small weep down on the forward part of the bilge near the top of the fuel tank. I fiberglassed over this spot and will epoxy over the hairline crack on the keel. The boat has been out of water all winter, so I am hoping the keel is dry internally. -Tim

pjacobs55 · Mar 25, 2010

There's a drawing of the early Vega keel area in the Yahoo Files Section called Keel_Construction.jpg
I think any cracks in the leading edge are in the cast iron ballast area, but any leaks in the aft area would certainly appear in the hollow part of the lower aft keel.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

dougpol1 · Mar 25, 2010

I am pretty new to Vega's but it seems strange to me that any part of
the lower keel should be hollow and dry thus buoyant. It would seem to
me if it were full of water that would be better. Maybe drained if
hauled ashore to keep it from freezing. I just can't imagine why they
would put buoyancy down low like that.. They then put fuel and batteries
in the keel to keep weight low. That doesn't make a lot of sense to
me??? DougPeter wrote:

dougpol1 · Mar 25, 2010

I bet the boat is partially water ballasted. That would be nice for
hauling on a trailer. DougPeter wrote:

dougpol1 · Mar 25, 2010

I had a center cockpit boat that had concrete ballast inside the keel
under the aft cabin. I had her up in the yard and she leaked rainwater
down into the keel and it got under the concrete froze and lifted the
ballst about 2 inches and lifting the cabin sole and the sole in the
head and shower. I took the concrete out and replaced it with lead.
The good news was it took up less space and provided some more
storage.You definitely do not want water in the keel if the boat is out
of the water during the winter.
Doug
Tim Klynn wrote:

tim_klynn · Mar 25, 2010

My bilge drain plug is epoxied over, so at the end of the season, I used a small hose to reach past the fuel tank and sucked the last bits of water out. I then poured in some RV antifreeze and pumped it out with the electric bilge pump that lives under the fuel tank. While checking on the boat from time to time over the winter, I would turn on the bilge pump, it was dry in the bilge.

My boat is a 1973, probably a series II, the keel is solid forward of the large sole cover. A diesel tank fill up most of the hollow aft section of the keel. The tanks sits on a inverted ushaped piece of fiberglass mat/cloth. I glassed across the bottom of the u to form a box and installed a narrow whale bilge pump inside on the floor of the box. I would guess the area under the fuel tank would only hold about 3-5 gallons which is only 40 pounds of water max. Not much good for a water ballast.

I am guessing that Per Brohall didn't fill this area of the keel for several reasons:
1) the boat probably doesn't need it (see the discussion in the manual about using iron vs lead ballast

2) there is probably something to do with balance of the boat, the heaviest part of the keel is under the mast

3) Brohall probably wanted to keep the boat as light, but still wanted a longer keel and keel hung rudder, so the void is there to provide hydrodynamic shaping

4) gives a good low spot to install the diesel tank and forms a low sump to collect any trespassing water.

5) some other reason I don't know about (Brohall's girlfriend wanted a cool spot to store many bottles of wine?)

-Tim

SVFlyAway · Mar 26, 2010

The reason for a deep bilge is to gather water that always get into a boat
and keep it from sloshing about when at sea. I once sailed in a boat with no
deep bilge and it was always a problem with water on the cabin sole (not
much of a boat actually). The weight is forward to put the center of mass at
the center of effort, thus providing better balance.

In my Series 2, late 1970s the fuel tank in in the port locker so I have a
huge bilge area. I always use a shop vac to dry it out rather than the bilge
pump. I rarely have much water in the bilge, but always a little works its
way into the boat -- fortunately when I am not sailing or running the engine
it is fresh water. I recently installed a third battery in the area by
extending a shelf over part of the void. I use Optimus batteries, though the
new Lithium Ion batteries by Master Charge look interesting (but they are
too expensive for my pocket book at this time)

I am also thinking of adding a couple other batteries in the cabin lockers.
I like plenty of power. The alternator on the little engine won't be able to
keep them charged, but I plan on building another towing generator. In my
bigger boat at 7 kts I generated 7 amps -- that's over 160 amps in a day,
plenty to keep all my electronics running (yes I love technology!). Of
course the Vega isn't quite that fast and I am worried about the drag, but
losing a 1/4 kt to gain even 100 amps a day is worth it (it isn't the
destination, it is the journey).

SVFlyAway · Mar 26, 2010

Note, it isn't Master Charge, but MasterVolt that makes the Lithium
batteries. If anyone has any experience with them I'd sure like to hear
about it. Here is the link:

http://mastervolt.fr/view_product.php?lang=2&section=mobile&prggr_id=1019&prg_id=1187&pro_id=6103

Chris

pjacobs55 · Mar 26, 2010

There're two ways to satisfy power needs:
Make more power (MegaWatts)
Need less power (NegaWatts)

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

vegatern · Mar 27, 2010

I always use a shop vac to dry it out rather than the bilge
pump. I rarely have much water in the bilge, but always a little works its way into the boat

Someone, it may have been on this list, suggested using a turkey baster to get that last little bit of water out of the bilge, and that is what I use now as it is easier than the sponge and bucket I used before. Thanks to whoever made the suggestion ;-)
Craig Tern#1519

dougpol1 · Mar 29, 2010

On my Vega Sea Legs 2225 the previous owner moved the fuel tank from the
keel into a tank in a port cockpit locker he also moved the batteries
into the starboard locker. OF course this places a lot of weight up
high. Likely next winter I will build a new tank and put it into the
keel again and will do the same with the batteries. There is likely 3
or 4 hundred pounds buoyancy inside the keel as it is now. Add to that a
200 to 300 lbs of fuel and batteries in the lockers. So I suspect I
have about 500 lbs of righting moment lost. This has to be fixed if I
am to go to sea in this boat. There are a few other things that have
been slightly seat of the pants engineered that I will have to fix.

Doug

Chris Brown wrote:

ronmagnusson · Mar 31, 2010

I have a brand new bilge drain screw if anyone is interested.

Ronnie Magnusson
Cell 203-395-0670
Work 203-881-2600
Fax 203-881-2644
Skype ronniemagnusson

vegatern · Mar 31, 2010

Doug, The keel tank in the Tern was also removed and a larger tank was placed in the port locker. I still have the original poly tank from the keel which I can't use. You are welcome to it if you like, if you will pay shipping from California. It's from a series 2 (at least I'm pretty sure she's a series 2) #1519. and holds 9.6 gallons of diesel. E-mail me at craigwhirt@... if interested.
A couple of winters ago I moved about 100' of chain into the keel where the tank had been. I glassed tabs to the hull about 10 inches back from the front of the void, just below the batteries. A narrow "bulkhead" is held against the tabs by the weight of the chain, about 80 pounds I think so about equal to the weight of the missing tank. I would need to secure it better if I were to plan on inverting the boat. The change in motion was immediate, and I think an improvement. I have wondered though, and I would appreciate opinions, if placing that much weight in one location on the hull is OK. 80 pounds of chain is piled in a column with a base about 8 inches by 10 inches and I have wondered if I could damage the hull in a sea, or is it no different than putting chain in the bow chain locker? The glass should be thicker in the keel . . .
Also, I think a standard shipping container is 8' wide and the Vega's beam is 8'1".

Craig Tern#1519

j.hunter9999 · Apr 1, 2010

Many people have moved the tank out of the bilge, including me. I'm not sure what to put in its place just yet. I considered glassing in a bulkhead of sorts and filling full of beer or wine. What have other people put in place of the relocated fuel tank?

Jack
Bella - V2620

pelagicasd · Apr 1, 2010

Hi Craig (and everybody else), Just a quick mention on the series 2 tank. When we salvaged Oops the Series 2 that we bought after she was broadsided by a sportfisher I tried to use her tank on Lyric. It was a no go. Not sure if it was a change in the hull shape but the tank wouldn't fit in Lyric's bilge as it was to wide. I presume the Series 1 vegas have a narrower keel. I cut a hole in the keel for a through hull and tha glass isn't thick enough to account for the difference. Walt
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
From: j.hunter9999@...
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 11:02:47 +0000
Subject: [AlbinVega] Fuel Tank Relocation

Many people have moved the tank out of the bilge, including me. I'm not sure what to put in its place just yet. I considered glassing in a bulkhead of sorts and filling full of beer or wine. What have other people put in place of the relocated fuel tank?

Jack
Bella - V2620

rogerefairest · Apr 1, 2010

Hi All,

This might be a bit of a stupid question but I am confused.

Is this the right place to put the goose neck strap? I ask since I took the whole of the boom and mast apart and I can not find any other place to put it and were it is at the moment use to have a split pin in place so I am not sure if I lost some part.

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

Taking advantage, thanks for the comments on the sailing, we are now off and in Ramsgate (south east conner of britain), waiting to cross the channel to France then back into the uk to get to cross down into Spain from the Scilly Isles.

Regards

Roger

rogerefairest · Apr 1, 2010

Forgot the picture.

________________________________
From: Roger Fairest rogerefairest@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com; albinvega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 1 April, 2010 18:28:20
Subject: [AlbinVega] Goose neck strap

Hi All,

This might be a bit of a stupid question but I am confused.

Is this the right place to put the goose neck strap? I ask since I took the whole of the boom and mast apart and I can not find any other place to put it and were it is at the moment use to have a split pin in place so I am not sure if I lost some part.

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

Taking advantage, thanks for the comments on the sailing, we are now off and in Ramsgate (south east conner of britain), waiting to cross the channel to France then back into the uk to get to cross down into Spain from the Scilly Isles.

Regards

Roger