Dual Purpose Battery?

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May 23, 2004
3,319
I'm in the market as were . Colonial Beach
I had two deep cycle group 27 batteries in my boat for my house bank. I had to replace them so I went to Napa. All they had were Dual Purpose batteries. The person assured me that they are good batteries and they are better than what I had.

I can't figure out what the amp hours of the batteries are. I have two group 27 dual purpose batteries and the only numbers that I can find are:

Napa 8270
G27DCM
CA= 810
CCA= 650
RC= 150

Does anyone know what the amp hours would be for these batteries? I set my Link 10 to 240 amp hours for my total house bank hours. Am I close to what I need to have it set at?
 
Oct 14, 2005
2,191
1983 Hunter H34 North East, MD
Bad...

The WM dual purpose 27's I have are rated at 80 ah/hrs. Their deep cycle ones are rated at 90 ah/hrs. Typically, depending on the manufacturer, a 27 will rate anywhere between the 80 and as high as 105.
 
May 23, 2004
3,319
I'm in the market as were . Colonial Beach
Don....that seems a little low. My last deep cycles that came out of my boat had 115 amp hours. Most deep cycles are at least 100 amp hours from what I was reading on my Link 10 monitor.
 

ebsail

.
Nov 28, 2010
241
O day 25 Nyack. New York
Costco has grp 27 deep cycles 105 amps for around $80 each. I used 3 for my old 35' and we routinely replaced them every 5 years. ( they were still OK but we didn't want problems)
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,686
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Dual purpose batteries are usually a less Ah version with thinner more sponge like plates than the same battery in a true deep cycle. Keep in mind however that many batteries marked as deep cycle are not really deep cycle but more of a hybrid. They often don't give them a 20 hour rate when they border closer to a start battery than a deep cycle because the rate would be quite low for the size case or they don't intend for it to be used is a heavy cycling application. You can't accurately ascertain a 20 hour Ah rate from a reserve capacity number because they are different measurements and Peukerts law throws everything out of whack when trying to convert. If you can track down NAPA's supplier, which I think is East Penn, you can get them to tell you the 20 hour rate if they measured it.

I have an unfair advantage in that I own a battery analyzer that allows me to run a load test to see what the battery puts out for cranking amps and lower CA generally means thicker plates and more likely deep cycle type plates. That number compared with the 20 hour rate has usually led me to batts with thick "deep cycling" type plates.

A good general rule of thumb for house batteries is that if it does not have a 20 hour rating, don't buy it for heavy cycling use as a house bank.

As an example the Deka Marine Master batteries (same ones WM uses) have an 80Ah dual purpose group 27 and a 90Ah deep cycle version. The difference will usually be that the deep cycle battery will have a longer cycle life and more Ah's. The NAPA batteries look a lot like an East Penn product and are probably the same battery WM sells.
 
Oct 14, 2005
2,191
1983 Hunter H34 North East, MD
Bad...

I wouldn't consider the Link reading as an absolute. I was specifically referring to the dual purpose type. Go by the mfgr's data. Maine Sail's comment was very definitive. I don't have a separate starting battery set-up, hence the dual purpose ones.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,686
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I wouldn't consider the Link reading as an absolute. I was specifically referring to the dual purpose type. Go by the mfgr's data. Maine Sail's comment was very definitive. I don't have a separate starting battery set-up, hence the dual purpose ones.
A Link monitor does not tell you the Ah rating you have to tell it the Ah rating. Tell it the wrong Ah rating and everything is and will be off....
 
Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack
The latest Costco DC27 has a 115 amp hour rating and i will have to see how they hold up
 
Dec 8, 2007
303
-mac 26M -26M tucson-san carlos mx
call it 100ah and don't stress out over the details. all these manufactrs use different voltages to get their amp hour ratings, there is no consistency or mandated industry standard to use.one might say 105 ah at 12.0 V the next guy says 100ah but at 12.5V,with no set standard its all just marketing hype anyway.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,686
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
call it 100ah and don't stress out over the details. all these manufactrs use different voltages to get their amp hour ratings, there is no consistency or mandated industry standard to use.one might say 105 ah at 12.0 V the next guy says 100ah but at 12.5V,with no set standard its all just marketing hype anyway.
Actually the Ah rating test is very industry standardized and not rated at 12.5 or 12.0 volts at all. This 20 hour industry standardized testing has been around since the 1920's..

When batteries are designed they have a general idea of what it should produce when compared to the 20 hour Ah discharge test. The manufacturers then run multiple tests on the battery, and periodically sample batches, to determine the industry standardized 20 hour Ah rate. This is why you see some GC2 golf cart batteries that can produce 232 Ah's and others only 215 Ah's in the same case or some group 27's producing only 70 Ah's and others producing 110 Ah's in the same physical case size.

The industry keeps each other honest too. US Battery & Trojan for example are frequently testing competitors batteries against the ratings and this is why you sometimes see Ah ratings change or CCA/MCA ratings change.

The 20 hour rate is how many amp hours the battery can supply before dropping to 10.5 volts under a given load. Each battery has it's own amp load it can support for 20 hours before hitting 10.5 volts. It is not rated at a specific voltage.

They start with a 100% charged battery then discharge it over a 20 hour period until it hits 10.5 volts. It often take multiple tests on a newly designed or recently changed battery to arrive at the amp draw that will go 20 hours before hitting 10.5 volts.

For us it is easy as the manufactures have already figured this out. So a 200 Ah battery can support a 10 amp load for 20 hours before dropping to 10.5 volts. This test is easily repeatable at home if you have a DVM and a known amp load that matches your batters support load.

I have tested new batteries and old using this simple standardized test and new ones are almost always spot on the rating and often very slightly over if the temps are not at spec (77-80F). The toughest part is coming up with a known load that equals the 20 hour rating load if you don't already know it.

To perform the test you simply divide your batteries 20 hour Ah rating by 20 to arrive at what the battery can support for 20 hours before dropping to 10.5 volts.

In Practice: Battery "A" has an amp hour rating of 150, dividing by 20 = 7.5. This battery can support a 7.5 amp load for 20 hours before dropping to 10.5 volts/dead and will produce 150 Ah's while doing so. A battery with a 60 Ah rating will carry a 3 amp load for 20 hours before dropping to 10.5 volts, a 200 Ah battery can support 10 amps for 20 hours before dropping to 10.5 volts. Ah's/20= amp load

The other common test is the reserve capacity test. In this test 25 amps is applied and the minutes counted before it hits 10.5 volts.

A group 27 battery without a 20 hour rating may only be in the 75-80Ah range. Generally if a battery is not meant for deep cycling they don't give it a 20 hour rate.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,686
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
That NAPA 8270 battery is made by East Penn / Deka and is an 80Ah rated battery as I just spoke with them. The tech support person I spoke with advised for the true deep cycle version, if cycling them.

So the 8270 is an 80 Ah rated battery but NAPA just does not publish it. Your bank is 160Ah not 230Ah and that is a big difference. Plugging in 230 Ah would have you very deeply cycling those batts, down to less than 30% of capacity @ a LINK 50% discharge, and they would not have lasted very long doing so.

If you wanted more Ah's you might ask if you can return them and then see if you can find a US Battery dealer. Their US 27DCXC is an excellent 12 volt group 27 battery with 105 Ah's. They are reasonably priced too. US Battery directly targets Trojan and sells very high quality batteries..
 
May 23, 2004
3,319
I'm in the market as were . Colonial Beach
Crap...that is a big difference. I am trying to contact the store now and see what I can do. I am very disappointed that the batteries were misrepresented to me when I bought them.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,686
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Crap...that is a big difference. I am trying to contact the store now and see what I can do. I am very disappointed that the batteries were misrepresented to me when I bought them.
The also sell the deep cycle version which is a 90 Ah battery. These are basically the same batteries West Marine sells. I don't know if they were necessarily misrepresented it is a dual purpose battery, not a deep cycle, and they actually say it right on the label. The deep cycle version has a teal/greenish label not blue and says deep cycle on the label.

They are actually pretty fairly priced at $97.99 when compared to WM's $170.00 price tag, but that's not a big surprise. This is the same battery WM sells for $70.00 more & Deka / East Penn builds a decent battery... http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=NBE8301_0300751591

Compare those specs to the WM DC27 or Deep Cycle 90 and you'll quickly see they are the same..
 
May 23, 2004
3,319
I'm in the market as were . Colonial Beach
They told me that they had 150 amp hours when I bought them. I suspected that something was up.
 
May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
Just my .02

I wouldn't even consider buying a dual purpose, or start only battery for any application on a sailboat. Unless you have a really big boat, with a great big honkin diesel engine, they do not require lots of cranking amps and a deep cycle should do that job just fine.
 

UPSGUY

.
Jan 9, 2011
133
Catalina 22 Bayville NY
Im amazed at the depth of knowledge on this site. Thank you for the education on something I thought I understood!
 
May 23, 2004
3,319
I'm in the market as were . Colonial Beach
Called the store. I am taking the dual purpose batteries back and getting deep cycles.
 
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