dropping the rudder

BF38

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Sep 19, 2012
4
Beneteau 38 ft lauderdale
Has anyone had to drop the rudder on a Beneteau 38 or other model in order to remove the shaft? Any tips on doing that? How heavy is the rudder? Did the yard hold it up in the slings or did you have to dig a hole?

I saw a comment where someone hoisted the motor up and pulled the shaft from under the motor but dont know if that was a Ben 38 or some other boat. Either way...sounds like an awful job.

Thanks.
Bill
 
Jun 21, 2004
2,532
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
A good friend of mine and I had our boats in the yard together this past March. He had to change his bent shaft after snagging the line on a crab trap; the boat is a Catalina 350. We were trying to determine if the rudder would need to be dropped. Another guy came along and we discussed the dilemma. He simply pushed / deflected the rudder sideways and it was just enough for the shaft to clear. Needless to say, my friend was a happy camper! At least with the Catalinas, there is enough side to side play in the rudder bearings to allow for shaft removal---pretty good engineering. I don't know if the Beneteau set up is similar; however, I would certainly give it a firm push before dropping the rudder. Good luck.
 
Oct 9, 2013
72
Beneteau First 38 Belmont Harbor
Here is a link to a guy dropping a rudder on a TARTAN 33.

<http://womble_1.tripod.com/T33_Maint_1.html>

Some good pics and good background info. Probably not the same as a 1984 Beneteau First 38 rudder but a lot of similarities. This past weekend I had my head in (a) the lazarette to check on access to the upper bearing and (b) the rear of the engine compartment to see how difficult the quadrant & auto pilot arm (if installed) would be to disconnect. Overall, it does not look to be too bad. Sorry, I did not get any pics. Biggest task will be to get bolts which have not been turned in 29 years to turn – PB Blaster, heat, and possibly impact wrench.

From what I understand the rudder itself is filled with foam & should float. Pulling down on the rudder to get extract the upper portion of the rudder post from the rudder tube seems like it would be difficult. Thus, it appears that the preferred method is to lift the boat out of the water and then while she is in slings to drop the rudder. Of course taking care that the rudder does not drop to the ground when the devices (quadrant, auto pilot arm, pin, etc) holding the rudder in position are removed.

For reference here is screen shot of BENETEAU Spare Parts website for Beneteau First 38. It gives a good idea of how the rudder is installed (top to bottom): emergency tiller connection at top of rudder post, upper rudder bushing, quadrant, rudder tube, lower rudder bushing, and rudder blade.

We will be dropping the rudder on “déesse” in a few weeks.
 

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Oct 9, 2013
72
Beneteau First 38 Belmont Harbor
Pushing the rudder to the side just seems too easy. Would be great if it can be done. My karma would not allow such a feat to happen.

Guys in the yard have had to dig a hole under the rudder to drop it. Yard did not like it at all.
 
Jun 21, 2004
2,532
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
Doug,
As I said, I actually saw the shaft removed on the Catalina 350 without dropping the rudder. The rudder has to be positioned carefully and pushed laterally. There is just enough room for the shaft to clear. Haven't had a need to try it on my Beneteau yet; however, it definitely works on the Cat 350. We thought that we might have to "shave" the rudder surface to obtain necessary clearance; however, it wasn't necessary. An "old" guy working on his boat in the yard came over and said "let me show you guys how to do this"; he had the shaft out in less than a minute. We were truly amazed and thankful!
 
Jan 6, 2014
35
Oceanis 351 Helsinki
First dig the hole and put something under the rudder, see pictures, how I did it.
Then just loosen up four bolts from quadrant, no need to remove them. Remove the pin from quadrant. Then remove the pin from collar and the rudder should come off. No need to remove cables from quadrant.
After this, I just broke down the pile under rudder and the rudder came off nicely (I did whole thing alone and took about 20min after the hole was ready
 

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Mar 15, 2010
1
Beneteau 2007 393 Severna Park
I checked on my 2008 Bene 393 last time on the hard. To remove the shaft, just remove the prop and pull the shaft straight out. The rudder is offset from the prop shaft alignment just enough to allow the shaft to be pulled without messing with the rudder.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,039
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Guys in the yard have had to dig a hole under the rudder to drop it. Yard did not like it at all.
We call it a "Coster Hole" after our good friend who had to dig one for his Tartan 33. Digging through soil that has settled for about a hundred years is a bit of exercise. Nevertheless he did it and got the rudder off and the shaft out. I don't even remember why he embarked on this adventure.
 
Jun 6, 2004
8
-Beneteau -331 Rock Hall, MD
I've changed the prop on my 331. While I was at it, I also replaced the cutlass bearing and the Volvo prop seal. Once the cutlass bearing is out and the transmission coupler is off, there is enough play in the prop shaft tube for the prop shaft to come out and slide past the rudder.
 
Feb 22, 2011
71
Hunter Legend 37 Muskegon, MI
Don't even know if this forum is still open but here goes. My Legend 37 has a hollow sounding spot in the rudder so I decided to remove the rudder and attempt repairs. In order to do this I wanted to remove my rudder because glass doesn't work well in below freezing to sub zero temps very well (nor do I). The "in the water" removal might be a bit risky. I pre loosened the 2 bolts in the quadrant and the single main cross bolt that actually held the rudder a week before haul out. I arranged for our lift operator to lower the boat so the rudder was a few inches above a piece of plywood (our yard is asphalt so no digging!). Once that was done, I removed the quadrant and the main bolt holding it. I did have to exert some convincing pressure from a BFH (with a piece of wood on the top of the rudder shaft). 3 whacks and the rudder dropped to the plywood. The boat was raised and the rudder removed. Sorry I didn't take any pictures. Once you take the deck cover off the quadrant area you'll see what I'm talking about. I am anticipating re installation to be about as painless. You'll probably see me searching for info on glass work or new rudders (of which might be the better alternative). Shipping weight for a rebuilt rudder on my skeleton is 140# and mine weighs 181# without shipping materials. (Different post)
Have at it. Yours might be as easily removed as mine was.
 
Mar 20, 2016
594
Beneteau 351 WYC Whitby
just removed my buddy's rudder on 37.5 first. To repair some spots and remove play in bearing. Dug a hole ,but didn't support it .I undid the rudder and then saw him in the hole with it. He is a big guy, trust me his was extremely heavy ,I'm guessing 200lbs plus,the shaft is like 3 inch solid steel. Lesson learned support it
 
Mar 30, 2014
28
Beneteau First 375 qc
Dear mechone,
Is it possible to contact your friend by email? I would be curious to learn how he did correct the play in rudder bearing, i have the same boat model! Many thanks in advance!
 
Mar 20, 2016
594
Beneteau 351 WYC Whitby
Actually I'm helping him I'm a millwright by trade.
You drop the rudder and pull the bearing , it has a single split in it.
You put a large hose clamp around it in the middle and tighten it ,put it on the rudder and feel the play .
Using a cut off wheel on a grinder you remove material ,then tighten clamp again and check play.
You want the fit to be able to turn but not a lot of play.once you have this the bearing is now smaller than the rudder hole.
You coat the outside of the bearing with pva which is a mold release agent.
You cut thin strips of fiberglass cloth that go around outside of bearing
Above and below the clamp and epoxy them around with west epoxy.when dry remove clamp bearing keeps closed and out side is bigger . Sand out side of bearing to fit in rudder hole.
Epoxy bearing outside back into rudder hole. The pva you put on outside of the bearing will allow the bearing to release from the fiberglass ring you just made like original,once water hits it.
Put some Molly grease on rudder bearing surface and reinstall rudder and now no play.
We used a couple of Allen keys to pull the bearing down and out of rudder tube.
Hope that explains the repair
Chris
 
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Mar 30, 2014
28
Beneteau First 375 qc
Hi chris, thank you very much for this really good explanations, it seems to be not that difficult; just a question, why do you have to put pva outside the bearing? My understanding is that the new fiberglass ring will be a kind of spacer between the inner side of the tube and the outer side of the bronze bearing? My thought is that the bearing should be glued to the inner tube to avoid it turning, it the rudder post that should move into the bronze bearing? Do you recommend any specific pva for that repair? I never used that before and wondering where I can get this product!
Finally, if you could share (maybe by private message) the contact for the 375 i would really appreciate, this boat model is pretty rare and its always useful to know other owners and share specific information.
Regard
 
Mar 20, 2016
594
Beneteau 351 WYC Whitby
Originally the bearing is not epoxyed into the rudder housing
If you glue it in,it would turn into a nightmare to remove incase of future repair,thus the pva
You could grind more of the bearing leaving a gap half way thru ,the epoxy will go into this gap making a key, not letting the bearing turn but still able to remove if that makes sense,make sure pva is in gap
We have local fiberglass supply shop that sells pva , ( Rayplex fiberglass)however it is available on ebay
I believe all beneteau bearings are the same made the same way so this repair is for any model
 
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Feb 22, 2011
71
Hunter Legend 37 Muskegon, MI
This will be an update on my earlier post. I didn't do the repairs myself. I'm not that proficient with fiber glass and I know it. I did drop the rudder off at Foss Foam in Williston, FL. They tore it apart and notified me that the interior was quite saturated with water, but the steel inside was still in good condition. I'll attach a picture of it as a skeleton of the rudder. Looking forward to picking it up in a few weeks and I'll again update after that and when it is back on the boat in April.
 

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Mar 26, 2011
3,399
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
If the shaft has only a very slight bend from snagging a crab trap, it can simply be bent back. They're not made of glass.

It's not quite that simple. The amount of force is considerable (can be easily calculated) and a cradle is required to prevent damage to the rudder, but it works. I know dozens that have been fixed that way.

More than a few degrees is different.
 
Jan 5, 2017
2,263
Beneteau First 38 Lyall Harbour Saturna Island
Has anyone had to drop the rudder on a Beneteau 38 or other model in order to remove the shaft? Any tips on doing that? How heavy is the rudder? Did the yard hold it up in the slings or did you have to dig a hole?

I saw a comment where someone hoisted the motor up and pulled the shaft from under the motor but dont know if that was a Ben 38 or some other boat. Either way...sounds like an awful job.

Thanks.
Bill
Hi Bill
We have just purchased a First 38 and I know I will have to replace the shaft and cutlass bearing fairly soon. Were you able to remove the shaft without dropping the rudder? Did you try it after removing the cutlass bearing? This thread doesn't seem to have the final answer.
My old boat ( Ericson 28+) has the engine offset about 4 in. so it was easy.
Mike
 

sailrj

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Jun 16, 2004
43
Beneteau 351 0 Aurora, KY
On our 1996 O 351, remove the prop and the shaft will bend just enough to squeeze by the rudder. Don't forget that the shaft will have more play being out of the coupling and the further it gets out of the journal. Have removed ours several time and never had to pull the rudder. Thank goodness!!