I took the V-21 out and was blasting around singlehanded and dropped the rig. The forstay parted and it ripped the tack loose from the chainplate. Paddling back solo sucks with the rig over the side. It looks like a new turnbuckle will fix the Forestay and a new U-clamp will fix the Jib. However, one of the mast step bolts pulled part way out, I got some cracked glass on the roof and a bent step. On the V-21's do the mast step bolts just go through the cabin roof and into the compression post?
Dropped the rig today...
- Thread starter CharlieCobra
- Start date
- Status
You're lucky...
...that it is a small rig. A larger boat would have been a FAR bigger headache. I have to ask, 'how many years old was the headstay?' I wonder how many skippers realize just how vulnerable the rig is after the headstay is blown. ALL headstays on ALL boats should be replaced after 10 years of service. Good luck with the repairs.
...that it is a small rig. A larger boat would have been a FAR bigger headache. I have to ask, 'how many years old was the headstay?' I wonder how many skippers realize just how vulnerable the rig is after the headstay is blown. ALL headstays on ALL boats should be replaced after 10 years of service. Good luck with the repairs.
Sorry to hear about the rig
Alan, You’re very conservative. In a warm seawater neighborhood I can’t argue with you but in New England I think a good stainless will hold up for twenty years. Charlie, Sorry to hear about the rig. You said a new turnbuckle will fix the problem. Is that what broke? All the best, Robert Ganer
Alan, You’re very conservative. In a warm seawater neighborhood I can’t argue with you but in New England I think a good stainless will hold up for twenty years. Charlie, Sorry to hear about the rig. You said a new turnbuckle will fix the problem. Is that what broke? All the best, Robert Ganer
Had MAC 21 A Few Years Ago
As I remember, the mast step bolts go through the cabin roof and the compression post is attached with different bolts.
As I remember, the mast step bolts go through the cabin roof and the compression post is attached with different bolts.
Agree with Robert
The stays should last more than ten years. I would bet that there were some indications prior to failure. I would recommend a good annual inspection of all stays.
The stays should last more than ten years. I would bet that there were some indications prior to failure. I would recommend a good annual inspection of all stays.
Robert
I have to disagree with you. why push the limit on something that has so much significance on your boat and your safety. I think that if you need to replace your headstay, you should go up 1 size in the wire. I did, from 1/8" to 5/32". It only cost a few cents more per foot for something you are already going to spend the money on. The breaking point on 1/8" 1 x 19 was 2200lbs. The breaking point on the 5/32" 1 x 19 is 3300 lbs. Another factor to consider is the tension of the rigging. I frequently walk around the marina and look at other boats. Sometimes the rigging is so loose it hangs in curls like slack monofilament fishing line. There is the potential for a very high shock load to the rigging over and over and over again each time you tack. A taut rig doesn't get that shock load to the standing rigging.
I have to disagree with you. why push the limit on something that has so much significance on your boat and your safety. I think that if you need to replace your headstay, you should go up 1 size in the wire. I did, from 1/8" to 5/32". It only cost a few cents more per foot for something you are already going to spend the money on. The breaking point on 1/8" 1 x 19 was 2200lbs. The breaking point on the 5/32" 1 x 19 is 3300 lbs. Another factor to consider is the tension of the rigging. I frequently walk around the marina and look at other boats. Sometimes the rigging is so loose it hangs in curls like slack monofilament fishing line. There is the potential for a very high shock load to the rigging over and over and over again each time you tack. A taut rig doesn't get that shock load to the standing rigging.
Mike , first read Roberts profile. He isn't
offering an opinion so much as his experience. There is alway a middle ground on rig tension. Plastic sailboats bend if you get the rig too tight and you rightly state that you will get shock loads from a slack rig.
offering an opinion so much as his experience. There is alway a middle ground on rig tension. Plastic sailboats bend if you get the rig too tight and you rightly state that you will get shock loads from a slack rig.
Mike, I don’t disagree with you, but
Mike, I don’t disagree with you because this falls into the realm of personnel preference. As wire ages it gets weaker and at some point fails. How much of a safety factor you want is tied into how long you are willing to accept the increasing risk. In the best of all possible worlds you would change the wire 10 minuets before its going to fail but you don’t know that point so you change it when you start to worry. In my case, I inspect yearly from the date it was new but don’t worry for 20 years unless the boat was sailed in the tropics. But I do have strong opinions about changing the wire size. In most cases it doesn’t make sense to increase the size. The wire is part of a system and the size of the clevis pins is tied to the size of the wire. If you increase the wire size you will still have the same tangs and chainplates. If you drill them for a larger pin you may in fact decrees the strength of the rig while using larger wire. If you want to increase the safety factor in the wire use Dyform of the equivalent size (Dyform is metric) and you have increased the wire strength 15% without changing anything else. Of course, changing the tangs and chainplates at the same time would further increase the safety factor of the whole system. There are sometimes good reasons to make a change like this but most of the time I see it done wrong and with bad consequences. I don’t know how you designed the change on your boat and you may have already taken all of this into account but I just thought I would comment on the change of wire size in a general sense. You are right about rig tension and I see a lot of boats with either too much or too little. And I read a lot of advice about how much is right and how to figure it out. I think it’s a more complex problem then you can solve with a simple rule like 15% of the working strength as your static tension in a wire. First, you need more tension in the upper then the lower because it’s longer and will strength more because of its length so to keep the mast in column you need to preload that wire more then the lowers. Also fiberglass boats are amazingly flexible and depending on the individual boat you need more or less tension. I think tuning is best done under sail starting with a snug rig instead of a large amount of tension. And I would be remiss if I didn’t say something about backstay tension. If you race its great, otherwise people tend to have too much and it least let off on the backstay when you aren’t sailing. The shock load in a rig might be less of a problem then you think. No matter what the starting tension is, when you tack the lee rigging is slack at the start of the tack. The rolling at the dock with a slack rig isn’t good but compared to sailing it isn’t much of a strain. All the best, Robert Gainer
Mike, I don’t disagree with you because this falls into the realm of personnel preference. As wire ages it gets weaker and at some point fails. How much of a safety factor you want is tied into how long you are willing to accept the increasing risk. In the best of all possible worlds you would change the wire 10 minuets before its going to fail but you don’t know that point so you change it when you start to worry. In my case, I inspect yearly from the date it was new but don’t worry for 20 years unless the boat was sailed in the tropics. But I do have strong opinions about changing the wire size. In most cases it doesn’t make sense to increase the size. The wire is part of a system and the size of the clevis pins is tied to the size of the wire. If you increase the wire size you will still have the same tangs and chainplates. If you drill them for a larger pin you may in fact decrees the strength of the rig while using larger wire. If you want to increase the safety factor in the wire use Dyform of the equivalent size (Dyform is metric) and you have increased the wire strength 15% without changing anything else. Of course, changing the tangs and chainplates at the same time would further increase the safety factor of the whole system. There are sometimes good reasons to make a change like this but most of the time I see it done wrong and with bad consequences. I don’t know how you designed the change on your boat and you may have already taken all of this into account but I just thought I would comment on the change of wire size in a general sense. You are right about rig tension and I see a lot of boats with either too much or too little. And I read a lot of advice about how much is right and how to figure it out. I think it’s a more complex problem then you can solve with a simple rule like 15% of the working strength as your static tension in a wire. First, you need more tension in the upper then the lower because it’s longer and will strength more because of its length so to keep the mast in column you need to preload that wire more then the lowers. Also fiberglass boats are amazingly flexible and depending on the individual boat you need more or less tension. I think tuning is best done under sail starting with a snug rig instead of a large amount of tension. And I would be remiss if I didn’t say something about backstay tension. If you race its great, otherwise people tend to have too much and it least let off on the backstay when you aren’t sailing. The shock load in a rig might be less of a problem then you think. No matter what the starting tension is, when you tack the lee rigging is slack at the start of the tack. The rolling at the dock with a slack rig isn’t good but compared to sailing it isn’t much of a strain. All the best, Robert Gainer
Thanks Robert
Thanks for the very good explanation on tensioning the rigging. It was much better than any thing I've been able to find before. Most sources only tell you what to do, and skip the why. I bought a catalina 22 a few years ago that needed a lot of work, but was also very cheap and had some nice features I liked. The previous owner greatly neglected it, and some of the turnbuckles were missing. A few were already 5/16". I opted to buy the remainder is 5/16" instead of the stock 1/8" All of my clevis pins are 5/16" and last year I installed the C22 upgrade chainplates, with very large backing plates. I installed a CDI furler, and since I needed a new forestay, and also since I was losing the redundancy of the jib halyard while sailing, I opted to go to the 5/32" forestay. Since the boat is a '75, and I have no idea how old the rigging was, this winter, I replaced all of the other shrouds with 5/32" wire. I had very little adjustment left in my turnbuckles since they are now 5/16" instead of 1/8". Therefore the new rigging is sized 1 inch shorter to provide me with the ability to adjust the turnbuckles. Would you mind answering a question for me? I know that if I put too much tension on the rigging with my loos gauge, I run the risk of distorting the hull. Would I be ok to just keep the tension about the same as it had been for the 1/8" wire. ie. 24 on lowers and 28 on uppers?
Thanks for the very good explanation on tensioning the rigging. It was much better than any thing I've been able to find before. Most sources only tell you what to do, and skip the why. I bought a catalina 22 a few years ago that needed a lot of work, but was also very cheap and had some nice features I liked. The previous owner greatly neglected it, and some of the turnbuckles were missing. A few were already 5/16". I opted to buy the remainder is 5/16" instead of the stock 1/8" All of my clevis pins are 5/16" and last year I installed the C22 upgrade chainplates, with very large backing plates. I installed a CDI furler, and since I needed a new forestay, and also since I was losing the redundancy of the jib halyard while sailing, I opted to go to the 5/32" forestay. Since the boat is a '75, and I have no idea how old the rigging was, this winter, I replaced all of the other shrouds with 5/32" wire. I had very little adjustment left in my turnbuckles since they are now 5/16" instead of 1/8". Therefore the new rigging is sized 1 inch shorter to provide me with the ability to adjust the turnbuckles. Would you mind answering a question for me? I know that if I put too much tension on the rigging with my loos gauge, I run the risk of distorting the hull. Would I be ok to just keep the tension about the same as it had been for the 1/8" wire. ie. 24 on lowers and 28 on uppers?
Robert
I respect your opinion. As a boat designer/builder you obviously know plenty about this topic. However, I know of several boats who's headstay blew between 10 and 20 years of age. One was the sister ship to mine and it let go at age 12. That was enough of a lesson for me. The cost of replacing my headstay was around $125. I consider that a small price to pay. Extrapolated over 10 years that amounts to $12.50 per year. As for local weather conditions, twenty or more years ago I might have been inclined to agree with the difference in weather between NY/NE and Florida. However, in the past several years summer temps in the north have been equal to and many times higher that that in the south(global warming??). You are one of the very first persons to call me conservative, but in this case I'll accept.
I respect your opinion. As a boat designer/builder you obviously know plenty about this topic. However, I know of several boats who's headstay blew between 10 and 20 years of age. One was the sister ship to mine and it let go at age 12. That was enough of a lesson for me. The cost of replacing my headstay was around $125. I consider that a small price to pay. Extrapolated over 10 years that amounts to $12.50 per year. As for local weather conditions, twenty or more years ago I might have been inclined to agree with the difference in weather between NY/NE and Florida. However, in the past several years summer temps in the north have been equal to and many times higher that that in the south(global warming??). You are one of the very first persons to call me conservative, but in this case I'll accept.
Rigging Life ... Hot Topic 
It's not often I don't agree with Robert 100%, however this is one of those times. Buzz Ballenger says, "The headstay and intermediates are usually the first candidates for replacement, although replacing all of the rigging at once is usually the smartest plan. Although all boats are different, I would say that rod and wire rigging becomes suspect after about seven years of normal use." http://www.ballengerspars.com/mast_main.html NavTec says, "Wire life expectancy guidelines are based on many variables, including heat, geographic location, salinity content of the water, how aggressively the boat is cleaned, contaminants in the air and water, etc. Navtec estimates a life expectancy schedule based on climate variables and water salinity: Heat and water salinity at maximum (Florida, Caribbean Islands) - 5 to 10 years Heat and water salinity at medium levels (East/West coast of US) - 10 to 15 years Fresh water climate - 15 to 20 years http://www.navtec.net/docs/RiggingService.pdf Rigging life has become a hot topic for insurance companies. They are starting to pay claims to replace masts on boats that are 15-20 years old that have had a survey within 5 years. There is a movement afoot to require more detailed rig inspections before they will insure rigs. Yes, I've seen 25-30 year old rigs with the original wire and fittings that do not show any flaws during a visual inspection. I also know that the rig has a finite life of fatigue cycles before it fails. Here is the kicker, you can test a wire for remaining fatigue life, but you have to destroy it to do so. In large opertaions that rely on wire for structure, they remove a wire at regular intervals and test it to failure. Over time they can work up a replacement schedule that is matched to the installation. Hard to do on a boat, since there are usually only pairs of wire in the rig. 40,000 miles is a good number. 40,000 @ 5 knots is 8000 hours. 8000 hours in 10 years is 800 hours per year or about 16 hours per week if you sail year around. I have no problem telling my customers that their rig should be replaced at the 10-15 year mark. I also have no problem telling a customer with a 15-20 year old rig that I won't waste their money on an inspection ... the boat needs a new gang to hold up the mast. As far as chaning sizes goes, Robert is right on. It is easy to end up with a weaker system. I consider it when replacing 302/304 alloy with 316 alloy wire. 316 wire is 15% weaker than 302/304, that change may justify changing wire size on some boats (if it can be done properly). I would much rather spend time doing mast out inspections and service than building new spars, but the mind set seems to be; "It's insured, I'm not spending $1000 to pull the mast and do a full service every 4-5 years." If we go back to the 800 hours a year, in 4 years that's 3200 hours. $1000 for a full rig inspection is $0.32 / hour or about 6 cents a mile at 5 knots. The neat thing about a full rig inspection and service is you can do it yourself for the cost of a crane to help un-step the mast. No need to pay a rig shop $75-100 per hour to do it for you.
It's not often I don't agree with Robert 100%, however this is one of those times.
Buzz Ballenger says, "The headstay and intermediates are usually the first candidates for replacement, although replacing all of the rigging at once is usually the smartest plan. Although all boats are different, I would say that rod and wire rigging becomes suspect after about seven years of normal use." http://www.ballengerspars.com/mast_main.html NavTec says, "Wire life expectancy guidelines are based on many variables, including heat, geographic location, salinity content of the water, how aggressively the boat is cleaned, contaminants in the air and water, etc. Navtec estimates a life expectancy schedule based on climate variables and water salinity: Heat and water salinity at maximum (Florida, Caribbean Islands) - 5 to 10 years Heat and water salinity at medium levels (East/West coast of US) - 10 to 15 years Fresh water climate - 15 to 20 years http://www.navtec.net/docs/RiggingService.pdf Rigging life has become a hot topic for insurance companies. They are starting to pay claims to replace masts on boats that are 15-20 years old that have had a survey within 5 years. There is a movement afoot to require more detailed rig inspections before they will insure rigs. Yes, I've seen 25-30 year old rigs with the original wire and fittings that do not show any flaws during a visual inspection. I also know that the rig has a finite life of fatigue cycles before it fails. Here is the kicker, you can test a wire for remaining fatigue life, but you have to destroy it to do so. In large opertaions that rely on wire for structure, they remove a wire at regular intervals and test it to failure. Over time they can work up a replacement schedule that is matched to the installation. Hard to do on a boat, since there are usually only pairs of wire in the rig. 40,000 miles is a good number. 40,000 @ 5 knots is 8000 hours. 8000 hours in 10 years is 800 hours per year or about 16 hours per week if you sail year around. I have no problem telling my customers that their rig should be replaced at the 10-15 year mark. I also have no problem telling a customer with a 15-20 year old rig that I won't waste their money on an inspection ... the boat needs a new gang to hold up the mast. As far as chaning sizes goes, Robert is right on. It is easy to end up with a weaker system. I consider it when replacing 302/304 alloy with 316 alloy wire. 316 wire is 15% weaker than 302/304, that change may justify changing wire size on some boats (if it can be done properly). I would much rather spend time doing mast out inspections and service than building new spars, but the mind set seems to be; "It's insured, I'm not spending $1000 to pull the mast and do a full service every 4-5 years." If we go back to the 800 hours a year, in 4 years that's 3200 hours. $1000 for a full rig inspection is $0.32 / hour or about 6 cents a mile at 5 knots. The neat thing about a full rig inspection and service is you can do it yourself for the cost of a crane to help un-step the mast. No need to pay a rig shop $75-100 per hour to do it for you.Happen to a friends O'Day 25
We used to have a V-17. I liked the boat. I think I was 10 years old at the time. You should have the mast step repaired. You can do it your self but it might not look as good as a professional repair. Steps: 1. Check the core for rot. Is it mushy? If so replace the core (bigger job). 2. Use a dremal to open up the cracks. 3. Expoy fill the cracks. 4. cover the cracks with gel coat. If you have core rot. Just sail the boat.
We used to have a V-17. I liked the boat. I think I was 10 years old at the time. You should have the mast step repaired. You can do it your self but it might not look as good as a professional repair. Steps: 1. Check the core for rot. Is it mushy? If so replace the core (bigger job). 2. Use a dremal to open up the cracks. 3. Expoy fill the cracks. 4. cover the cracks with gel coat. If you have core rot. Just sail the boat.
Turnbuckle failure
Yep, it appears the turnbuckle failed. I'm hoping the step wasn't glassed in during the cabin layup and I can repair this thing. I don't think there's a core on this boat's cabin roof. If there is, it's solid with no give or mush.
Yep, it appears the turnbuckle failed. I'm hoping the step wasn't glassed in during the cabin layup and I can repair this thing. I don't think there's a core on this boat's cabin roof. If there is, it's solid with no give or mush.
Nice links
Moody Buccaneer, Two excellent links that I enjoyed reading last night and they give me good reason to be concerned. Navtec has a good tech department and when they have something to say its worth paying attention. But before I change my position, and I think I will because 20 years is pushing it a bit, there was a lot of lifecycle testing done on MS swage fittings used in aircraft. The aircraft eye and fork are the same fittings used in marine applications swaged by the same machines (except the ATI swager which I don’t think is used by any riggers) as used for sailboat rigging. I wonder what testing has to say about this. I don’t have direct access to that work but I can ask the library to get copies for me. Navtec has seen a lot more fittings then I have so if the failure rate is .001% in less then 10 years and .01% at 20 years I may have seen a few and they have seen hundreds which gives them a better perspective and a larger sample to decide why something is failing and what is an acceptable risk. And of course if you are the lucky 1 in a 1000 who had a failure in less then 10 years it’s a 100% failure to you. One of the thing I do poorly in this internet thing is that I don’t add enough “if” “and” and “but” to some of my thoughts. I pointed out that I inspect fittings every year without adding that I look at the swage and try to determine, among other things, the type of machine that made it. Wire-Teknik, Kearney, Top-Reff or a rotary hammer swager like a Fenn or a Torrington all leave telltale marks and each machine makes fittings that will have a different lifespan. Some like the Kearney M2 may make a "banana" swage which has a very short life and I won’t trust them for more then a few years while a Wire-Teknik type of machine will make a swage that I, so far, have not had a problem using for more then 20 years. Now having said all this I need to replace my rigging. My Tartan 34C has been sailing with the same wire for about 35 years now. I know that’s pushing it and I already ordered wire for a re-rig this spring. I have a Wire-Teknik A250 just so that I can maintain my boats and I don’t even get around to doing my own rigging. That’s terrible. All the best, Robert Gainer
Moody Buccaneer, Two excellent links that I enjoyed reading last night and they give me good reason to be concerned. Navtec has a good tech department and when they have something to say its worth paying attention. But before I change my position, and I think I will because 20 years is pushing it a bit, there was a lot of lifecycle testing done on MS swage fittings used in aircraft. The aircraft eye and fork are the same fittings used in marine applications swaged by the same machines (except the ATI swager which I don’t think is used by any riggers) as used for sailboat rigging. I wonder what testing has to say about this. I don’t have direct access to that work but I can ask the library to get copies for me. Navtec has seen a lot more fittings then I have so if the failure rate is .001% in less then 10 years and .01% at 20 years I may have seen a few and they have seen hundreds which gives them a better perspective and a larger sample to decide why something is failing and what is an acceptable risk. And of course if you are the lucky 1 in a 1000 who had a failure in less then 10 years it’s a 100% failure to you. One of the thing I do poorly in this internet thing is that I don’t add enough “if” “and” and “but” to some of my thoughts. I pointed out that I inspect fittings every year without adding that I look at the swage and try to determine, among other things, the type of machine that made it. Wire-Teknik, Kearney, Top-Reff or a rotary hammer swager like a Fenn or a Torrington all leave telltale marks and each machine makes fittings that will have a different lifespan. Some like the Kearney M2 may make a "banana" swage which has a very short life and I won’t trust them for more then a few years while a Wire-Teknik type of machine will make a swage that I, so far, have not had a problem using for more then 20 years. Now having said all this I need to replace my rigging. My Tartan 34C has been sailing with the same wire for about 35 years now. I know that’s pushing it and I already ordered wire for a re-rig this spring. I have a Wire-Teknik A250 just so that I can maintain my boats and I don’t even get around to doing my own rigging. That’s terrible. All the best, Robert Gainer
Mike,
Mike, That gauge gives you a reference number that is based on how much force it takes to push a wire sideways while it is held between two supports. The more you load the wire the more it takes to deflect it. But, the larger the wire the more it takes to deflect it even if it has the same load as a smaller wire. So the practical answer is yes, use that number as a starting point but the “real” number will almost certainly be a little different then with the smaller wire. All the best, Robert Gainer
Mike, That gauge gives you a reference number that is based on how much force it takes to push a wire sideways while it is held between two supports. The more you load the wire the more it takes to deflect it. But, the larger the wire the more it takes to deflect it even if it has the same load as a smaller wire. So the practical answer is yes, use that number as a starting point but the “real” number will almost certainly be a little different then with the smaller wire. All the best, Robert Gainer
Thanks again Robert
I thought that it would be alright. I didn't want to put too much tension on because the deck would just be under that much more strain, even though I used the big backing plates. I only daysail on an inland lake and I'm pretty conservative when it comes to reducing the sails. I've found out that the boat sails faster and is way easier to maintain headway than if I was constantly heeling and rounding up when overpowered. CharlieCobra, sorry for carrying on a seperate conversation inside your thread. Last year, a Seward 23 lost his mast while in the slip opposite of mine. He did not have any sails bent on. My daughter and I had to pull the mast up out of the water and we used towels as padding and lashed it to the bow and stern rails with short pieces of line we had on our boat. The boom was not there, and we thought that it was on the bottom, but luckily, the owner had it iside of the cabin. I looked the riging over, and found that the turnbuckles all were without cotterpins. The turnbuckle for the forestay had worked itself apart, causing the failure, and all parts were still there. I gave the guy a bag of cotter pins when I next saw him, but he never installed them! Make sure that your turnbuckles are pinned. Later in the year, a Catalina 22 in another nearby slip had the cockpit filled with water all the way up to the hatchway step, and water was getting into the cabin. I used a 5 gallon bucket to bail some of the water, and my bilge pump as a pressure source to force the clog out of the cockpit drains. I just held the discharge hose against drain while my buddy pumped the handle. Once unclogged, the rest of the water in the cockpit drained. I used that technique another time on my father-in-laws drains with equally good results.
I thought that it would be alright. I didn't want to put too much tension on because the deck would just be under that much more strain, even though I used the big backing plates. I only daysail on an inland lake and I'm pretty conservative when it comes to reducing the sails. I've found out that the boat sails faster and is way easier to maintain headway than if I was constantly heeling and rounding up when overpowered. CharlieCobra, sorry for carrying on a seperate conversation inside your thread. Last year, a Seward 23 lost his mast while in the slip opposite of mine. He did not have any sails bent on. My daughter and I had to pull the mast up out of the water and we used towels as padding and lashed it to the bow and stern rails with short pieces of line we had on our boat. The boom was not there, and we thought that it was on the bottom, but luckily, the owner had it iside of the cabin. I looked the riging over, and found that the turnbuckles all were without cotterpins. The turnbuckle for the forestay had worked itself apart, causing the failure, and all parts were still there. I gave the guy a bag of cotter pins when I next saw him, but he never installed them! Make sure that your turnbuckles are pinned. Later in the year, a Catalina 22 in another nearby slip had the cockpit filled with water all the way up to the hatchway step, and water was getting into the cabin. I used a 5 gallon bucket to bail some of the water, and my bilge pump as a pressure source to force the clog out of the cockpit drains. I just held the discharge hose against drain while my buddy pumped the handle. Once unclogged, the rest of the water in the cockpit drained. I used that technique another time on my father-in-laws drains with equally good results.
CharlieCobra
If you are going to reset the mast step, make sure to use a bedding compound, such as MMM 4200. If you don't, you'll get water leaking thru the roof. Dry fit the step first, use masking tape to cover the exposed rooftop, then take the step up, apply the 4200, and reseat it. Tighten the screws gently, and a wee bit later tighten some more. The next day, just trim off the excess 4200, which will have dried, and pull up the tape and it will look as nice as a factory installation.
If you are going to reset the mast step, make sure to use a bedding compound, such as MMM 4200. If you don't, you'll get water leaking thru the roof. Dry fit the step first, use masking tape to cover the exposed rooftop, then take the step up, apply the 4200, and reseat it. Tighten the screws gently, and a wee bit later tighten some more. The next day, just trim off the excess 4200, which will have dried, and pull up the tape and it will look as nice as a factory installation.
Thanks guys..
Yeah Robert, I pin all of mine and the pins were there before launch. All of the turnbuckles are getting replaced since this. What's the tack time for MMM 4200? Five minutes? Ten?
Yeah Robert, I pin all of mine and the pins were there before launch. All of the turnbuckles are getting replaced since this. What's the tack time for MMM 4200? Five minutes? Ten?
4200
I think it takes a little bit longer to skim over, and sets in several hours. If it gets on your hands it is hard to get off. Don't bu too big of a tube, because once the tube is opened, the stuff has a tendancy to start to harden inside of the tube. I've never used any other brand, and am very happy with the results. I'm sure others may have used something else and could offer their advice.
I think it takes a little bit longer to skim over, and sets in several hours. If it gets on your hands it is hard to get off. Don't bu too big of a tube, because once the tube is opened, the stuff has a tendancy to start to harden inside of the tube. I've never used any other brand, and am very happy with the results. I'm sure others may have used something else and could offer their advice.
Robert,
If you come up with the Mil-Spec test data for swage fittings, I'd like to know what it is. Technical information is not readily available. The Kearney machine instructions say that you are allowed up to 4 passes to get a fitting to the correct size. I have never seen any guidelines for feed rate or total time to swage a fitting using the rotary machine that we have in the shop. I know there must be a point where the swage is getting work hardened, I just don't have any idea what that limit is. I agree with you that annual inspections should be part of the routine. I also agree that usage and state of tune play a large part in extending the life of standing rigging. I just wish I had more solid numbers to go by, I hate guessing! On the subject of turnbuckles and pins; Have you seen the new "Smart Pins" from Blue Wave? Anyone that has forgotten to tape cotter pins and ruined a sheet or torn a sail should look at them. Also anyone that tunes their rig often. They consist of a pin riveted to a Velcro strap. The pin goes where the cotter pin used to hold the turnbuckle adjustment and is held in place with the Velcro. Goes on and off with no tools, and does not trap water inside the turnbuckle like tape can. They are a bit expensive compared to cotter pins, but they offer a quick and tidy solution to the cotter pin and tape hassle.
If you come up with the Mil-Spec test data for swage fittings, I'd like to know what it is. Technical information is not readily available. The Kearney machine instructions say that you are allowed up to 4 passes to get a fitting to the correct size. I have never seen any guidelines for feed rate or total time to swage a fitting using the rotary machine that we have in the shop. I know there must be a point where the swage is getting work hardened, I just don't have any idea what that limit is.
I agree with you that annual inspections should be part of the routine. I also agree that usage and state of tune play a large part in extending the life of standing rigging. I just wish I had more solid numbers to go by, I hate guessing! On the subject of turnbuckles and pins; Have you seen the new "Smart Pins" from Blue Wave? Anyone that has forgotten to tape cotter pins and ruined a sheet or torn a sail should look at them. Also anyone that tunes their rig often. They consist of a pin riveted to a Velcro strap. The pin goes where the cotter pin used to hold the turnbuckle adjustment and is held in place with the Velcro. Goes on and off with no tools, and does not trap water inside the turnbuckle like tape can. They are a bit expensive compared to cotter pins, but they offer a quick and tidy solution to the cotter pin and tape hassle.- Status