Drop off toilet waste

[SanderO]

I would like the board's reaction to a different approach to the problem of toilet waste on a yacht.

My idea is to have a system of modular relatively small 3 - 5 gallons capacityportable tanks which you plumb to the toilet and use as a portable holding tank.

These tanks would be dropped off at any marina, fuel dock, or pump out boat and be replaced with a cleaned empty, much like the system used for propane. Bring in an empty gas bottle and they give you a filled one. In this system, bring in a filled poop tank and they give you an empty.

Of course there are plumbing "issues" but I suspect they could be surmounted more easily then a fixed mount holding tank install. The hose end would have to have a secure "locking" connector. I suppose that it might require a plug in vent line with a similar locking mechanism. The only way to get at the contents would be with dedicated fittings at shore side facilities which would dispose of the waste (as they do now) clean the tanks and have them available at the usual exchange locations.

The tanks would have built in "pad eyes" for latching and securing them to the yacht in a locker, under a berth etc.

You could have a few empties on board since the tanks would be smaller than a typical holding tank if you didn't want to exchange them "frequently".

What say you?

 

[Ross]

Seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist in large scale. Rather than carry a bucket of S*** ashore just come along side a dock and have it pumped out.

 

[SanderO]

There are many reasons not to install a pump out system. And coming along side can be inconvenient. In Sag Harbor for example there is only one fuel and water dock to come to sailboats. Since they are fueling up mega yachts at their fuel dock, pump out poop is not going to make them happy.

Plus a holding tank system takes up a lot of interior volume. What about when the tank is full and you can't use the head? I would think that many tanks smell as well and you have a big job in getting rid of the smell. With portable tanks you can remove it all.

The problem exists in large scale when all boats are mandated to have holding tanks or a means of treating waste.

 

[Rick D]

I think the capacity is too low. We use 25 gallons in four or five days. That is being very conservative. Five gallons isn't much. When we had six gallon holding tanks, we had overboard valves which we always used when sailing in open ocean and never used the on-board tank unless we just couldn't STAND it.

 

[SanderO]

Rick,
The idea is you can carry several empties and fill them up and drop them off as you need. The are small enough to stash the empties in a cockpit locker and small enough to transport in a dink for exchange.

 

[Guest]

Holding tank

Sounds like a solution in search of a problem.

I prefer the idea of our large fixed holding tank located in the bottom of the boat bilge that lasts several days between pump outs.

1. Nothing to pack around or stow.
2. Stations here have no staff and are available 24/7.
3. No need to deal with cranky staff having to shovel dung for a living.
4. Free.

Nice idea, but you're talking about porta potty size tanks. I had one and it was a PITA.

Terry Cox

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Rick,
The idea is you can carry several empties and fill them up and drop them off as you need. The are small enough to stash the empties in a cockpit locker and small enough to transport in a dink for exchange.

If they (plural) can be put in a locker, they are pretty small -if they are larger, they equate to the vol of a typical holding tank. In either case, you need to dock to offload. What's the value added?

 

[SanderO]

A outboard tank is 3 or 4 gallons can be easily handled and stowed. Frankly I think the idea of carrying around 25 gallons of poop creepy - I'd rather have additional fuel or water. I think it's easier to find a place for a small "disposable" tank and not difficult to haul and you can store several in a cockpit locker.

Also finding a place to put a 25 gal holding tank in close proximity to the head is a hassle. I suspect it is on a lot of boats as well.

 

[Guest]

Waste

I have to say that Hunter figured out where to place the holding tank on our boat, so no hassle and no smell here. As far as stowing several three to four gallon port-a-potty type tanks (about three to four flushes per tank) inside a locker being less of a hassle than sending the stuff to a 30 gallon tank; me thinks someone has a loose shackle. Even on our large boat the thought of squeezing even two full (25-30 pounds each) of these things into one of our lockers is not my idea of reasonable thought. I find it a PITA just replacing an empty CNG tank in our locker.

So, I arrive a station that is floating out in the harbor (common here) where there is a stack of these empty containers all with the same fittings that match (of course) the head fittings on our boat, leave the full and depart with the empty ones, then someone the next day comes out and handles the mess I have left free of charge.

Okay, sounds like a plan. Please let me know when you get it implemented. In the mean time...

Terry Cox

 

[CalebD]

If you are an in shore sailor the best thing to do is to keep your sphincter muscles tightly wrapped up until you make your next port and not fill up your 'holding' tank unless there is a medical reason you cannot hold it yourself or it is an emergency. I have my own embarrassing health issues that shall not be aired right now; one of which is flatulence, both verbal and otherwise.

If this line of reasoning does not work for you then take a swim, paddle to shore or use a bucket with a lanyard attached to it (all illegal in LIS waters I think). They also make composting heads which I have not tried and can't comment on.

If you are sailing out on the ocean then you use the pump overboard capability IF there is even a holding tank on your boat.

If you are trying to reinvent the wheel then please have at it. This idea reminds me of the way they used to deliver milk to your doorstep in the old days only in reverse but with much more unpalatable contents.

Suggestion: pay a visit to the American Hotel in Sag Harbor every day and use their facilities for a sink shower and what not while ashore. I bet they will look forward to your visits.

The best idea I can come up with is to contact the Plum Island Infectious Disease Laboratory and drop off your 'cans' every day to have them test it to make certain it is cleaner then the stuff they actually work on. They might be interested in this idea as I hear they are going to be closed down in the near future and may be interested in future revenue streams.

There may also be a solar or wind oriented solution to the problem you are posing that no one else seems to have expressed an interest in but we all share to one degree or another.

Interesting idea but seemingly no takers. What is happening over at 'StuffImInto'.com? Is Sully still paranoid?

Sure has been a wet July here in the NE but at least you are here to provide some entertainment value. Let us all know when your patent comes through on this new 'Blackwater' system comes through.

Enjoy your summer on the East End and the wet weather we have all been enjoying. I'll bet that the local corn crop is ready to be eaten and digested and then ...

 

[SanderO]

The idea occurred to me as a result of the problem in retro fitting a large holding tank into an older small sized cruiser where space/volume is at a premium. It's sort of halfway between a porta potty and a full on holding tank.

Of course new boats come with a holding tank worked out and this concept makes no sense. But it might for some / many boats.

Interesting snark, but really.... who cares? That became very old a long time ago.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

The one the wrong with your plan that can't be overcome

Pumpout services never have to actually handle any waste, just connect a hose to a fitting and turn on a pump, but someone would have to physically deal with the full tanks.

Would YOU be willing to handle somebody else's full tank...empty it, wash it out, sanitize it--which isn't necessary on your own boat, but would be if you're gonna swap tanks with anyone and everyone? 'Bout one day of doing that in July or August is about as long as you could keep any employees, if that long!

 

[butchrobbins]

I would like the board's reaction to a different approach to the problem of toilet waste on a yacht.

My idea is to have a system of modular relatively small 3 - 5 gallons capacityportable tanks which you plumb to the toilet and use as a portable holding tank.

These tanks would be dropped off at any marina, fuel dock, or pump out boat and be replaced with a cleaned empty, much like the system used for propane. Bring in an empty gas bottle and they give you a filled one. In this system, bring in a filled poop tank and they give you an empty.

Of course there are plumbing "issues" but I suspect they could be surmounted more easily then a fixed mount holding tank install. The hose end would have to have a secure "locking" connector. I suppose that it might require a plug in vent line with a similar locking mechanism. The only way to get at the contents would be with dedicated fittings at shore side facilities which would dispose of the waste (as they do now) clean the tanks and have them available at the usual exchange locations.

The tanks would have built in "pad eyes" for latching and securing them to the yacht in a locker, under a berth etc.

You could have a few empties on board since the tanks would be smaller than a typical holding tank if you didn't want to exchange them "frequently".

What say you?

I say...

1) Who's gonna clean those tanks and where are they gonna clean them.
2) Do you really want to accept a "cleaned" tank?
3) Gotta be some cost prohibitive health issues here somewhere.

 

[Bill Roosa]

tank volume and weight

5 gal is too small to be convenient on anything but a day sail. At 7 lb/gal that is 42 lb per container. I can't see myself getting all excited about pulling the full 42 lb container and storing it just to take a crap.
WAY TO MUCH hassle.
If I'm any judge of plumbing it will eventually leak or I'll spill it who knows where and then have to do some detailed cleaning when I could just crap in the head and be done with it.

Now if you could convince the marina owner to install a CNG dispenser at the fuel dock I'd go out and buy another CNG quick connect and install it on my boat, buy a bigger CNG tank and be set for a month of galley operations.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Bill...

Water and waste weigh 8.333/ gal...which would actually be about 42 lbs (41.665). Although I can't quite figure out how you managed to multiply 5 x 7 and come out with 42! Must be some kind of new math.

 

[Guest]

Waste

Hi Peggie, I'm sure Bill was figuring gross weight, net waste plus tank and fittings equals about 42 pounds? Just a guess on my part since he must know what 5X7 equals?

Terry Cox

 

[SanderO]

Obviously, the cleaning etc. would be a state service. I don't know how they would be sanitized.

Where does the waste actually go when it is pumped out? Into the public sanitary system like any toilet waste?

I wouldn't want to handle stinky containers either. But if they were sanitized and sterilized and didn't smell, why not? I don't like handling diesel, or even gasoline tanks

I don't like carrying 30 gallons of poop either on board in a tank which is probably hard to clean as well.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Well, if you don't like carrying 30 gallons of waste

There is a solution: a CG certified Type I MSD (device that treats waste and discharges it overboard legally and with -0- negative environmental impact).

"Obviously the cleaning of the tanks would be a state service"...iow, the gov't would do it? More of our tax dollars at work? You're either kidding or only 15 years old. If you want to know what that job would be like, follow a nurses' aide around a nursing home for a week

And finally... you asked, apparently in all seriousness, where the waste goes when it's pumped out. Contrary to what some environmental zealots seem to believe, it is not magically transported to another dimension...it goes to the local sewage treatment plant where it MIGHT get treated before it goes into the waters that holding tanks are intended protect...that is, unless a heavy rain causes a treatment plant spill that puts a zillion gallons of toilet waste, holding tank contents and everything else people flush down a drain into the water UNtreated.

 

[Guest]

Waste

Our 26 gallon holding tank is very easy to clean without the need to remove it. Pump out, fill with fresh water, pump out again, fill with four gallons of water, repeat. After the four gallon pump out I leave the nozzle in the pump out fitting, then squirt fresh water through the tank vent until the water comes out clear. I've been doing it this way ever since we cleared the clogged tank vent in 2002 left by the PO when we purchased the boat. The system has worked flawlessly ever since thanks to Peggie Hall's advice.

Terry Cox

 

[Bill Roosa]

5X7=35 but .....

My brain must be working on a different plain to get the right answer with the wrong math.
Course my brain has a 30 deca Hz (300 Hz) processor so you tend to get funny answers if the buffer (5 kb) gets loaded up.

I still feel that connecting and disconnecting jugs of poo is just asking for trouble. It don't take a super computer to figure that one out.