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Drivetrain upgrades

DaveJ

.
Apr 2, 2013
328
Catalina 310 Niagara-on-the-Lake
I had trouble with my drivetrain this summer (525 hours), sometimes my transmission did not go into forward. Linkage was checked, so now I am having a mechanic friend pull the transmission. There have been posts on this in the past, but I am wondering if someone can help with some current info. While this work is being done I am thinking of upgrading a couple of other systems as well.
1. I will be replacing the damper plate....I will take opinions on which plate has worked best, there seems to be a few options.
2. A PPS dripless coupling. I am in fresh water but would like a dry bilge. I'm hoping someone that has done this upgrade can let me know the model #. Is this a worthwhile upgrade?
3. Cutless bearing. I have a little play in mine and this seems like the time to replace it. Does the rudder need to be dropped (hope not!)? Is there a special tool needed to do this?
4. Flex coupling. Does anyone have a part # and cost? Also, is this a worthwhile upgrade?

This is a 2001 C310, hull #160.
I know there are a lot of questions above and the answers may go off on tangents, but most of this is related because it can all be done at the same time, on the hard for the winter.

Thanks in advance for answers... the best forum with lots of knowledgeable people that are willing to share info.

dj
 
Jan 30, 2012
1,047
Nor'Sea 27 - "Kiwanda" Portland/Anacortes
Try to find a Sachs drive plate.

If you install a dripless packing you will have to move the shaft and that means the coupler will have to be separated from the shaft. If you can get the coupler off without cutting it - which is not likely unless it is a split coupler - you should obtain a new one and have a machine shop fit the new one to the shaft and square it up. Have them polish the area where the shaft packing lands. Also check and straighten the shaft if necessary. Considering all this you can immediately see why some folks think that a traditional packing gland is probably a better choice.

If the shaft is out the cutless replacement is straight forward. If the shaft is left in place the cutless can be removed and replaced using a strut pro tool - or similar. If the cutless is mounted in the shaft tube (you have no strut) then a strut pro won't work.

If the shaft is fastened to the transmission output shaft and supported only by the cutless mounted at the other end with no other support in between do not use a flexible coupling device (Shaft Saver or similar.) If the shaft is supported also by solid mounted intermediate bearing(s) between the transmission output and the cutless then you should use a flexible coupling device. In all cases the cutless center (and the intermediate bearing(s) if any) must be aligned exactly with the center of the output flange so the shaft path is straight. You should use a laser alignment tool to align these centers because they are very accurate and also very simple to use.

By the way if you use a flexible device be certain to install a jumper wire to assure shore power alternate ground path to the water is kept intact.

Charles
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,648
Catalina 270 Wabamun - on the orange ball
The PSS falls into a 'love or hate it" category. What's not usually said is that a significant number of the "hate it" crowd do not have one, and are basing the qualification on things they read. I fall into the "love it" category, having had one for three years now, with more or less the same weather scenario as you. The dry bilge is the best part, and there are a number of 310 owners here who have done it.
I replaced the shaft, the coupler and the cutlass bearing at the same time. Had I known that a split coupler was an option, I certainly would have done that. the factory shaft was bronze, and there is now a nice stainless one from CD, as the nearest boatyard beyond my garage is 800 miles away, and my little lathe isn't capable of facing anything near that big.
It's not a hard job to change the bearing, there are a number of videos out there explaining how to do it with a hacksaw, and installing the PSS is all in a days work.
Not a hard job, nice and dry, and a split coupler would make easy work of changing the bellows in 8 years. :)
 
Sep 29, 2008
1,769
Catalina 310 #185 Quantico
Dave, I do not have the dripless, as I am happy with the Goretex packing.

I did replace my Cutless Bearing, You can do it with the shaft in the boat and you can make your own tool to do it. There us a good tutorial at http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/53809-replacing-cutlass-bearing-photo-heavy.html. You can make your own tool with a couple pieces of 3/4 copper tube (4 1/2 pieces cut and split lengthwise), some threaded rods and nuts and some oak or other hard wood for the pieces to tie it all together. If you are a member of the Catalina association (ask Stu) I think they have one they will loan you.

I replaced my damper plate with the Sachs Damper Plate #10 1866 061 001 and it has worked out fine. I got it from a marine supply place up in Seattle called MER Equipment (http://www.merequipment.com/pdfs/Drive-Plate-Brochure-5-22.pdf). Called the guy on the phone and he was pretty helpful.
Contact Info: MER Equipment 338 W. Nickerson St. • Seattle, WA 98119 • 206.286.1817 • 1.800.777.0714

I also replaced my motor mount with the MM-Small-65 rubber hardness motor mounts from AV Products as at the time I could not find the OEM mounts. Price was $35.00/each and the M12 height adjuster is $12.00/each. These also made things quieter.

The R&D Flex Coupling fits the Hurth transmission and goes in line replacing the 4 bolts and is part number 910-014. There is also an R&D Part 103-307 that is a flexible rubber piece used to make electrical connectivity between the transmission and the shaft. There is a hole in the center of the plastic coupling that the Earthing Connector is rolled up and inserted into to make the electrical connection. Have had this on my boat for years with no problems.
 

DaveJ

.
Apr 2, 2013
328
Catalina 310 Niagara-on-the-Lake
Thanks for all the info. I have been waiting until I knew the issues to respond. My tranny was taken apart today and the clutch plates were worn out. I'm looking for a clutch plate kit and gasket kit for my HBW50-2/R. While i'm doing this I will replace the engine mounts, although they look OK after 525 hours. The damper plate looks fine? I guess while we're in there I should also replace it. $$$$$$$$. Does anyone know where I can get all this at one spot, for a 'good' price? The Canadian $ is not helping me any here......
I am not going to change to the flex coupling, but may go with the dripless while things are apart.
Also, do others recommend the Sachs damper plate as Ray has?
Thanks again
Cheers, dj
 

Clydo

.
May 28, 2013
263
Catalina C310 SF Bay/Delta
Dave, I do not have the dripless, as I am happy with the Goretex packing.

I did replace my Cutless Bearing, You can do it with the shaft in the boat and you can make your own tool to do it. There us a good tutorial at http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/53809-replacing-cutlass-bearing-photo-heavy.html. You can make your own tool with a couple pieces of 3/4 copper tube (4 1/2 pieces cut and split lengthwise), some threaded rods and nuts and some oak or other hard wood for the pieces to tie it all together. If you are a member of the Catalina association (ask Stu) I think they have one they will loan you.

I replaced my damper plate with the Sachs Damper Plate #10 1866 061 001 and it has worked out fine. I got it from a marine supply place up in Seattle called MER Equipment (http://www.merequipment.com/pdfs/Drive-Plate-Brochure-5-22.pdf). Called the guy on the phone and he was pretty helpful.
Contact Info: MER Equipment 338 W. Nickerson St. • Seattle, WA 98119 • 206.286.1817 • 1.800.777.0714

I also replaced my motor mount with the MM-Small-65 rubber hardness motor mounts from AV Products as at the time I could not find the OEM mounts. Price was $35.00/each and the M12 height adjuster is $12.00/each. These also made things quieter.

The R&D Flex Coupling fits the Hurth transmission and goes in line replacing the 4 bolts and is part number 910-014. There is also an R&D Part 103-307 that is a flexible rubber piece used to make electrical connectivity between the transmission and the shaft. There is a hole in the center of the plastic coupling that the Earthing Connector is rolled up and inserted into to make the electrical connection. Have had this on my boat for years with no problems.
 

Clydo

.
May 28, 2013
263
Catalina C310 SF Bay/Delta
I to replaced damper plate from MER equip in Seattle. The said and I ordered

# 10 1866-061-001

For $ 181.75 in July 2014. They said # 10 1866-050-062 was too "small" and not as stiff.
Mine works fine. Fit right in.

Clyde Thorington
C310 # 245
ILEAN TOO
San Jose, CA
 
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DaveJ

.
Apr 2, 2013
328
Catalina 310 Niagara-on-the-Lake
I will be ordering the # 10 1866-061-001 Sachs plate.
I am wondering about engine mounts, my supplier wants a ton of $$ for the OEM mounts, and I see others have used after market, such as MM-Small-65 from AV Products and K50/K75 from Vetus. Do these mount to the existing holes, or do I need to modify anything? My preference is a non-modify solution.
Thanks

dj
 
Sep 29, 2008
1,769
Catalina 310 #185 Quantico
I will be ordering the # 10 1866-061-001 Sachs plate.
I am wondering about engine mounts, my supplier wants a ton of $$ for the OEM mounts, and I see others have used after market, such as MM-Small-65 from AV Products and K50/K75 from Vetus. Do these mount to the existing holes, or do I need to modify anything? My preference is a non-modify solution. Thanks dj
When I went to replace my mounts all I could find were 4" on center mounts as opposed to the 5" on center with the OEMs. Measure yours first, as if yours is one of the newer boats you may have 4" on center. To get around re-drilling the holes I got some 1/4 steel plate from Tractor Supply, cut 4 pieces off about 6" long and drilled 4" and 5" on center. Put bolts up through the bottom for the 4" on center and then bolted them down onto the rails with the 5" matching holes. I should be at the boat tomorrow if you need pictures. FWIW, it has been a couple of years but I still love the MM-small-65 mounts and am glad I went with them over the Vetus (which look a lot like the new OEM mounts).
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,325
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Late again, sorry.

I used the Sachs plate and I am very happy. I just passed 1,000 hours and did the replacement at 625 hours. No issues and no rattling sound.

On the motor mounts, as a Maine Sail disciple I stuck with factory mounts. I did add a 3/4 inch spacer under the front mounts because those were at the top of the bolt to get proper alignment. I used SS because I have an unusually cheap source (free water getter to match the foot print of the mount thanks to my cousin's machine shot) but G10 would work as well.
 

DaveJ

.
Apr 2, 2013
328
Catalina 310 Niagara-on-the-Lake
The motor mount issue is gnawing at me. The cost of the OEM's just seems ridiculous, but very simple...just replace. I have access to machinery so making the adaptors is an option. And mine look OK right now, but with the transmission off this seems like the time to do it. :frown:
Ray, I was wondering about drilling holes so close together, was there interference between bolts? Did you countersink the bolts that are on 4" centers?
Jesse, thanks for the advice on the Sachs plate, that is road I'm going to take.
 
Sep 29, 2008
1,769
Catalina 310 #185 Quantico
I had to grind a little on the bolt heads to get them to all fit together. Given my skills in drilling and tapping and not wanting to completely remove the engine drove me to my solution. I did not countersink the bolts, but ground out some of the gelcoat over the aluminum rail. If I had to do it again I would use bolts I could countersink.
 

DaveJ

.
Apr 2, 2013
328
Catalina 310 Niagara-on-the-Lake
Ray, would it be possible to take pictures of your adaptor pieces? I should have responded when you offered..... I have a concern that the metal on the new mounts will interfere with the bolt heads that are on 5" centers. I can countersink the taper head bolts that are on 4" centers, maybe tap and locktite them.
Thanks
 
Sep 29, 2008
1,769
Catalina 310 #185 Quantico
Dave, Here are the pictures. If I had to do it again I would go with flat head bolts to hold the new mounts on. That should avoid just about any type of machinations to get things to fit. At the very worst, as I found out, a grinder can be your best friend (I recall the only things I had to grind we some washers to get everything to fit tight). As you will note, the new mounts have bolts that thread and lock in so once you get the old mounts out of the way, if you ever have to change anything it is not necessary to move the engine. I used a 4x4 across the cabin top with a come-along to lift the engine. I used 3"x 3' 1/4" steel I picked up from tractor supply, cut it on my table saw with a metal cutting blade, and then drilled the holes with a small drill press.
 

Attachments

May 2, 2012
225
Catalina 310 Toronto
Hey Ray. Made my own cutlass bearing puller, very similar to the one you described and it works like a dream. Total cost was $35 Canadian. Took a total of 14 minutes to replace. :wow3:

Cheers
2 Old Pirates:yeah:
 

paulj

.
Mar 16, 2007
1,350
Catalina 310 Anacortes,Wa
Just replaced PPS dripless coupling after 7 years and also installed Buck Algonquin split flange, which was faced off with prop shaft at machine shop.


paulj
:hook2:
 

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Last edited:

paulj

.
Mar 16, 2007
1,350
Catalina 310 Anacortes,Wa
" also installed Buck Algonquin split flange, which was faced off with prop shaft at machine shop"

John
I mean like this...........


paulj
:hook2:
 
Mar 8, 2011
25
Catalina 310 Oriental, NC
Hey Jesse

Did you use the Sachs Damper Plate #10-1866-061-001. If so, do you like's it's performance and did it handle the rattle.
I have to do the replacement and was wondering how it was performing since you had traveled the ICW (motoring).
Seems you guys are having fun.
Thanks
Bill
Oriental, NC
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,325
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Hey Jesse

Did you use the Sachs Damper Plate #10-1866-061-001. If so, do you like's it's performance and did it handle the rattle.
I have to do the replacement and was wondering how it was performing since you had traveled the ICW (motoring).
Seems you guys are having fun.
Thanks
Bill
Oriental, NC
Yup we used the Sachs Damper Plate. Haven't heard a rattle since. Very happy with the performance. We have about 900 hours on it.

We are having a blast. Leaving on a 36 hour passage now to head into Turks and Cacaos.

Jesse