I have a 1991 Hunter 30. I need to replace ? or add packing to the drive shaft exiting the boat bottom. Can I do this while the boat is in the water or does it have to be lifted out of the water first. The installation that came on my boat has a white plastic nut that can be tightened down to stop water flow. I usually tighten this nut by hand when I leave my boat so no water is leaking in at all. The distance between the fixed white nut which is towards the rear of the boat and the compression side white plastic nut is growing smaller now. I have noticed that when I run the engine now that a lot more water seems to be leaking in past the nuts. Any ideas on what kind of packing is the best ? Thanks for your help. Larry
DRIVE SHAFT PACKING
- Thread starter laheze
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You should never..
"Tighten" flax packing "when leaving the boat". It is designed to be adjusted so a few drips occur when you are at rest and even more drips occur when you are underway. Tightening or compressing the flax does not lead to it "un-compressing" when you loosen it afterwards. You have most likely worn a fairly serious groove in your shaft by doing this! If you want a drier or a dry bilge you have only two choices. I would replace it with Gore GFO for very little dripping or a PSS Shaft Seal for no dripping but both methods require you to pull the boat if you have NO experience doing this sort of repair. I've replaced flax at least 30 times in my long boating career but even I don't like to do it in the water. Can it be done in water, yes, should it with minimal experience no! Are you sure it's a plastic stuffing box? Usually they are bronze..
"Tighten" flax packing "when leaving the boat". It is designed to be adjusted so a few drips occur when you are at rest and even more drips occur when you are underway. Tightening or compressing the flax does not lead to it "un-compressing" when you loosen it afterwards. You have most likely worn a fairly serious groove in your shaft by doing this! If you want a drier or a dry bilge you have only two choices. I would replace it with Gore GFO for very little dripping or a PSS Shaft Seal for no dripping but both methods require you to pull the boat if you have NO experience doing this sort of repair. I've replaced flax at least 30 times in my long boating career but even I don't like to do it in the water. Can it be done in water, yes, should it with minimal experience no! Are you sure it's a plastic stuffing box? Usually they are bronze..
Replace that plastic!
I don't mean to be an alarmist here but.....I used to have a plastic packing gland on my previous boat, an'87 H28.5. When I first saw it, I thought to myself that it was not a place I would have used plastic but oh well, they must know what they are doing. When I was trying to figure out how to repack it one spring I asked another Hunter owner (Scott, '85-'87 H31 frequents this board) about it. He went below and came back up with his plastic packing gland in his hand. It had a crack that went 270* around the fixed part. The crack was packed with JB Weld (epoxy putty). It had cracked on him while out sailing and the water that we are supposed to keep on the outside of the boat was pouring in. I gave up trying to repack it and replaced it with bronze immediately. Cheap insurance. Tom s/v Orion's Child
I don't mean to be an alarmist here but.....I used to have a plastic packing gland on my previous boat, an'87 H28.5. When I first saw it, I thought to myself that it was not a place I would have used plastic but oh well, they must know what they are doing. When I was trying to figure out how to repack it one spring I asked another Hunter owner (Scott, '85-'87 H31 frequents this board) about it. He went below and came back up with his plastic packing gland in his hand. It had a crack that went 270* around the fixed part. The crack was packed with JB Weld (epoxy putty). It had cracked on him while out sailing and the water that we are supposed to keep on the outside of the boat was pouring in. I gave up trying to repack it and replaced it with bronze immediately. Cheap insurance. Tom s/v Orion's Child
No leak at rest!
The packing gland should NOT leak when at rest. This can be done while in the water, but it where me I'd leave it to a pro. If you haul the boat then you can try it out. Be sure that you have all the materials you need before you start the job while in the water.
The packing gland should NOT leak when at rest. This can be done while in the water, but it where me I'd leave it to a pro. If you haul the boat then you can try it out. Be sure that you have all the materials you need before you start the job while in the water.
I had the plastic nuts on my H28
It is a good system. You can repack it in the water. There will be a lot of water coming into the boat. I would do it on the hard. I would get the dripless packing. I think it is time to repack. I use pick tools (cheap tools fro auto store or sears) and forcepts to get the old packing out, not easy. I did not have any luck with the packing tool remover or a sheet metal screw. gOOD luCK wAF
It is a good system. You can repack it in the water. There will be a lot of water coming into the boat. I would do it on the hard. I would get the dripless packing. I think it is time to repack. I use pick tools (cheap tools fro auto store or sears) and forcepts to get the old packing out, not easy. I did not have any luck with the packing tool remover or a sheet metal screw. gOOD luCK wAF
While many people have
commented here previously about how they replace packing in a stuffing box with the boat in the water, my suggestion is to do it (at least the first time) with the boat on the hard. That is, if you can. Read on. I also had a white OEM packing gland in my H28.5 (which I believe is actually nylon). I, too, never liked or trusted it although I never had any problems with it -- until I tried to repack it, that is. I'm not sure if all the Hunters that have this white packing gland are all the same (I suspect they are), but I could not get the compression washers out no matter what I tried. I even made a few special "tools" to pry/pick them out. Didn't work. If you can't remove the washers, you can't remove the old packing nor put in new packing material. I have since replaced this gland with a conventional bronze gland, a relatively inexpensive chore that gives me a lot more confidence in it. However, in doing this job, when I removed the original white gland I was astounded to find not one, but three compression washers in it. Two were plastic/nylon separating two rings of packing that had a stainless washer in the middle. I cannot think of a reasonable way one would remove these washers/packing to service this gland without doing what I did: removing the shaft. I'm not sure what Hunter was thinking about when they decided to use a gland of this material and design, but it sure wasn't ease of maintaining it.
commented here previously about how they replace packing in a stuffing box with the boat in the water, my suggestion is to do it (at least the first time) with the boat on the hard. That is, if you can. Read on. I also had a white OEM packing gland in my H28.5 (which I believe is actually nylon). I, too, never liked or trusted it although I never had any problems with it -- until I tried to repack it, that is. I'm not sure if all the Hunters that have this white packing gland are all the same (I suspect they are), but I could not get the compression washers out no matter what I tried. I even made a few special "tools" to pry/pick them out. Didn't work. If you can't remove the washers, you can't remove the old packing nor put in new packing material. I have since replaced this gland with a conventional bronze gland, a relatively inexpensive chore that gives me a lot more confidence in it. However, in doing this job, when I removed the original white gland I was astounded to find not one, but three compression washers in it. Two were plastic/nylon separating two rings of packing that had a stainless washer in the middle. I cannot think of a reasonable way one would remove these washers/packing to service this gland without doing what I did: removing the shaft. I'm not sure what Hunter was thinking about when they decided to use a gland of this material and design, but it sure wasn't ease of maintaining it.
THANKS FOR YOUR REPLIES
Thank you all for your replies. I was hoping to see a diagram of this system/packing gland. If anyone knows where a drawing/diagram is that I could look at I would appreciate it. I am assuming that the drive shaft is just simply going through this plastic tube that has screw threads machined into the inside wall. The part (big nut) that I can turn has an extened end that (goes down inside the threaded tube)this extension is pushing against washers you are talking about compressing the packing. My questions are how far down into the tube can the compression nuts extended end go? as in how long is it? one inch, two inches or more? As for the multiple washers that Warren mentioned, do you think that the first section is to help keep water out while you only replace the packing on the side closest to the compression nut (I am just wondering here). If I were to attempt to replace the packing, how much water rushes in? Is the water pressure coming in enough to make it really difficult to put in the new packing and then get the compression nut back in? In the West Marine catalog there is a product called SYNTEF, a green colored packing that they say is a clay like material that is internally lubricated. Anyone have an opinion on this stuff, good or bad or what is better ? Their catalog also shows conventional flax, PTFE flax, and Tef Pack. How does one know what diameter of packing to use? I see they offer 1/8 thru 5/8. The drive shaft is 1 inch according to the Hunter Manual or engine manual that came with my boat but there is no diagrams, instructions for replacement. My boat has the original packing in it. I have known this boat from new, it was on stands at the local Hunter dealer at the time for years, I have owned it and had it in the water for 7 years as of April 15th. Thanks again for all your replies. Larry
Thank you all for your replies. I was hoping to see a diagram of this system/packing gland. If anyone knows where a drawing/diagram is that I could look at I would appreciate it. I am assuming that the drive shaft is just simply going through this plastic tube that has screw threads machined into the inside wall. The part (big nut) that I can turn has an extened end that (goes down inside the threaded tube)this extension is pushing against washers you are talking about compressing the packing. My questions are how far down into the tube can the compression nuts extended end go? as in how long is it? one inch, two inches or more? As for the multiple washers that Warren mentioned, do you think that the first section is to help keep water out while you only replace the packing on the side closest to the compression nut (I am just wondering here). If I were to attempt to replace the packing, how much water rushes in? Is the water pressure coming in enough to make it really difficult to put in the new packing and then get the compression nut back in? In the West Marine catalog there is a product called SYNTEF, a green colored packing that they say is a clay like material that is internally lubricated. Anyone have an opinion on this stuff, good or bad or what is better ? Their catalog also shows conventional flax, PTFE flax, and Tef Pack. How does one know what diameter of packing to use? I see they offer 1/8 thru 5/8. The drive shaft is 1 inch according to the Hunter Manual or engine manual that came with my boat but there is no diagrams, instructions for replacement. My boat has the original packing in it. I have known this boat from new, it was on stands at the local Hunter dealer at the time for years, I have owned it and had it in the water for 7 years as of April 15th. Thanks again for all your replies. Larry
Link to diagram of stuffing box
http://www.diybob.com/diyPackingGland.htm Got that by doing a simple google search. There is a ton of info out there. While I am with the majority opinion that you should do this on the hard the first time you try it I have read that you can minimize the intruding water flow by forcing parafin (wax) into the edges of the shaft and the cutlass bearing (this being under water). One big problem is knowing which size flax (I recommend the Gore teflon stuff http://www.emarineinc.com/products/gfopacking/packing.html - it is better than plain old flax) to use. To find out what size fits best in your packing gland you have to take it apart (good luck getting your calipers in there - I had to measure using my finger tip) anyway. When I did this job I bought 3 sizes, all around 1/4" and ended up using 1/4". As for SYNTEF or the green packing putty, it is expensive (I know, I bought it and never used it)and it requires you to use strands of flax packed with it. Do it on the hard. You will be happy to know that your boat is not slowly sinking. Good luck.
http://www.diybob.com/diyPackingGland.htm Got that by doing a simple google search. There is a ton of info out there. While I am with the majority opinion that you should do this on the hard the first time you try it I have read that you can minimize the intruding water flow by forcing parafin (wax) into the edges of the shaft and the cutlass bearing (this being under water). One big problem is knowing which size flax (I recommend the Gore teflon stuff http://www.emarineinc.com/products/gfopacking/packing.html - it is better than plain old flax) to use. To find out what size fits best in your packing gland you have to take it apart (good luck getting your calipers in there - I had to measure using my finger tip) anyway. When I did this job I bought 3 sizes, all around 1/4" and ended up using 1/4". As for SYNTEF or the green packing putty, it is expensive (I know, I bought it and never used it)and it requires you to use strands of flax packed with it. Do it on the hard. You will be happy to know that your boat is not slowly sinking. Good luck.
Syntef is a bandaid at best..
Be very careful with the teflon grease (Syntef or others). I used teflon flax (imitation Gore) and the grease for a season on one of my boats. Towards the end of the season my stuffing box was running very, very hot. When I took her out of the water, and took apart the stuffing box I noticed a mass of teflon grease and teflon flax residue clogging my shaft log between the shaft and the output end of the bronze on the stuffing box! The spinning of the shaft & tightening of the gland nut had spun a coating of the teflon grease onto the inside of the stuffing box log until it built up enough to slow the cooling water flow to next to nothing! The water that did drip out was in the form of steam because there was not enough cool water available to flow around the shaft even with the packing nut backed off. Stuffing boxes, without grease zerks, were never designed to have grease in them and the cheap imitation teflon flax with the grease is a band aid approach at minimizing water ingress. I learned the hard way on this one as I had to pull my shaft to fully clean out the stuffing box. While I was in there I replaced it with a PSS and loved it.. If you want a good flax for a traditional stufing box buy the Gore GFO packing, and not some imitation, it does not require a grease like the cheap Gore knock off flaxes do and when adjusted properly it drips very minimally compared to other flaxes. Some claim no dripping with Gore but a drop per minute, when spinning, is better for your shaft than no water drip at all even with Gore GFO. If it were me I'd be installing a new bronze or PSS shaft seal and getting rid of that plastic stuffing box..
Be very careful with the teflon grease (Syntef or others). I used teflon flax (imitation Gore) and the grease for a season on one of my boats. Towards the end of the season my stuffing box was running very, very hot. When I took her out of the water, and took apart the stuffing box I noticed a mass of teflon grease and teflon flax residue clogging my shaft log between the shaft and the output end of the bronze on the stuffing box! The spinning of the shaft & tightening of the gland nut had spun a coating of the teflon grease onto the inside of the stuffing box log until it built up enough to slow the cooling water flow to next to nothing! The water that did drip out was in the form of steam because there was not enough cool water available to flow around the shaft even with the packing nut backed off. Stuffing boxes, without grease zerks, were never designed to have grease in them and the cheap imitation teflon flax with the grease is a band aid approach at minimizing water ingress. I learned the hard way on this one as I had to pull my shaft to fully clean out the stuffing box. While I was in there I replaced it with a PSS and loved it.. If you want a good flax for a traditional stufing box buy the Gore GFO packing, and not some imitation, it does not require a grease like the cheap Gore knock off flaxes do and when adjusted properly it drips very minimally compared to other flaxes. Some claim no dripping with Gore but a drop per minute, when spinning, is better for your shaft than no water drip at all even with Gore GFO. If it were me I'd be installing a new bronze or PSS shaft seal and getting rid of that plastic stuffing box..
For Larry
I have the old white nylon packing gland in my workshop and can take some pictures of it if you like (and send me your email address). I still think it nearly impossible to remove any or all of the washers inside the gland with the boat in the water and the shaft in place. I believe the size of the packing material is 1/4 inch. You can safely back off the forward most compression nut to measure how far it enters the gland, which is about an inch or so.
I have the old white nylon packing gland in my workshop and can take some pictures of it if you like (and send me your email address). I still think it nearly impossible to remove any or all of the washers inside the gland with the boat in the water and the shaft in place. I believe the size of the packing material is 1/4 inch. You can safely back off the forward most compression nut to measure how far it enters the gland, which is about an inch or so.
Similar problem ..
1987 Legend 35: It had the standard white nylon gland. I was planning on replacing it this winter no matter what (with PPS Shaft seal). When I got the old one off, I too found old washers buried deep in there. I'm assuming that various POs had failed to get the washers out and simply shoved in more packing material on top of the washers. The nut was simply tightened onto added packing material. Anyway ... same comment as others, I'd replace this with something new no matter what. Chris
1987 Legend 35: It had the standard white nylon gland. I was planning on replacing it this winter no matter what (with PPS Shaft seal). When I got the old one off, I too found old washers buried deep in there. I'm assuming that various POs had failed to get the washers out and simply shoved in more packing material on top of the washers. The nut was simply tightened onto added packing material. Anyway ... same comment as others, I'd replace this with something new no matter what. Chris
Packing
I just replaced the packing in a white plastic gland on my hunter. It was a bear of a job. There were internal washers between layers of packing and removal of the old packing was very difficult. I advise looking into a PPS seal. I intend to do just that next winter. My boat required a lot of patience and hours with a number of picks, etc. to get the old stuff out. Doing this job in the water would have been a disaster in my case. I replaced the old with GFO packing and expect it will be just fine, but I am not a big fan of the plastic stuffing box and believe I will prefer the PPS apparatus. Many sailing friends have installed them and I have yet to hear a complaint.
I just replaced the packing in a white plastic gland on my hunter. It was a bear of a job. There were internal washers between layers of packing and removal of the old packing was very difficult. I advise looking into a PPS seal. I intend to do just that next winter. My boat required a lot of patience and hours with a number of picks, etc. to get the old stuff out. Doing this job in the water would have been a disaster in my case. I replaced the old with GFO packing and expect it will be just fine, but I am not a big fan of the plastic stuffing box and believe I will prefer the PPS apparatus. Many sailing friends have installed them and I have yet to hear a complaint.
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