have you gone to a dripless stuffing box, and are you satisfied. and how much did it cost from beginning to end?
dripless
- Thread starter mortyd
- Start date
When I owned my Sabre 30 I converted to a dripless seal from PYI. The decision was driven by the difficulties accessing the stuffing box and the challenges that rose from trying to maintain it. My current boat had a PYI Shaft Seal on it when I bought it.
I've been happy with both seals. The one caveat is if the bellows fails there will be a lot of water coming in the boat. Less chance of that with a traditional stuffing box.
I did the work myself, so the only cost was the cost of the seal. The 30 had a bronze shaft and that needed replacement because it was worn and the prop had corroded to the shaft.
If you decide to install the new seal beside to order a shaft collar to back up the collars from PYI. https://www.mcmaster.com/#shaft-collars/=1d83up1
I've been happy with both seals. The one caveat is if the bellows fails there will be a lot of water coming in the boat. Less chance of that with a traditional stuffing box.
I did the work myself, so the only cost was the cost of the seal. The 30 had a bronze shaft and that needed replacement because it was worn and the prop had corroded to the shaft.
If you decide to install the new seal beside to order a shaft collar to back up the collars from PYI. https://www.mcmaster.com/#shaft-collars/=1d83up1
Yes, and if you do, it's probably a good idea to do the shaft, coupling and cutlass bearing at the same time. That way you shouldn't have to touch it for a few years at least. Ours is coming up on 6 this year and not a spot of trouble.
I had a Hunter Vision 32 that I changed out for a bronze stuffing box and "no-drip packing". I never could get it right, so I changed that out to a PSS. My current boat came with one from new; just put the second replacement bellows in after 2800 hours and 24 years. (Total of 3 bellows in 24 years including the original.) Totally satisfied. I do have the back-up collar installed.
A very old dripless was on an old Oday 30 we bought in Florida in 2006. It was worn slightly unevenly, but did not leak. One problem (read: What is that squealing noise?) occurred about 2008 on a day with a following sea. The stern lifted enough to allow air or at least air bubbles under the boat's stern. That allowed the dripless to run dry. It needed to be "burped". I pushed the graphite forward a bit and let in some water. Problem solved!
The new dripless seals I have installed since that old one have a tube that leads up inside the engine compartment until it is above the waterline. That insures that water, not air, is at the surface where the stainless steel ring and the graphite surface meet. Any air in there escapes up the tube. I think the shaft seals I used were PSS, but I would not swear to that...…..Although I did swear a few times at the shaft, shaft coupling, and the seal itself during installation. An engine room is a small place to work! Instructions were easy to follow.
The new dripless seals I have installed since that old one have a tube that leads up inside the engine compartment until it is above the waterline. That insures that water, not air, is at the surface where the stainless steel ring and the graphite surface meet. Any air in there escapes up the tube. I think the shaft seals I used were PSS, but I would not swear to that...…..Although I did swear a few times at the shaft, shaft coupling, and the seal itself during installation. An engine room is a small place to work! Instructions were easy to follow.
I had thought it a pretty good idea until, through reading on the forums, that if there is a problem, it requires a haul out. That may not be a problem for you, but it could be a significant one for us if we were sailing offshore or inter-island in the Caribbean.
I prefer a little water dripping into my bilges all the time, versus enough water to sink my boat, just once.
I prefer a little water dripping into my bilges all the time, versus enough water to sink my boat, just once.
Ever notice how this device is somehow single handedly responsible for sending boats to the bottom? Is there anybody on this forum who has lost a boat this way? There sure are a lot, and growing, number who seem to think otherwise.
I know of one person who had it fail. The failure did not send the boat to the bottom, however, he was amazed at how fast water entered his boat.
When I reinstalled the transmission on my boat, there were a few minutes when the parts weren't aligned. I too was impressed with how quick the bilge filled up.
This is a critical piece of equipment that works well when it does, which is the vast majority of the time. But it does require routine maintenance and inspection. PYI recommends changing the bellows every 7 years.
The upside is easier year to year maintenance, less water in the bilge with a dripless seal. Traditional stuffing boxes can be a challenge when the time comes to change the packing and adjusting it, more water in the bilge, and wear on the prop shaft. But they are less expensive and probably have a lower failure rate.
When I reinstalled the transmission on my boat, there were a few minutes when the parts weren't aligned. I too was impressed with how quick the bilge filled up.
This is a critical piece of equipment that works well when it does, which is the vast majority of the time. But it does require routine maintenance and inspection. PYI recommends changing the bellows every 7 years.
The upside is easier year to year maintenance, less water in the bilge with a dripless seal. Traditional stuffing boxes can be a challenge when the time comes to change the packing and adjusting it, more water in the bilge, and wear on the prop shaft. But they are less expensive and probably have a lower failure rate.
Another upside to the traditional stuffing box is that if there is water continually coming into the boat, you know pretty quickly if your bilge pump isn't working. If there is no water in the bilge, your bilge pump could be (or have been for some time) inoperative.
Not so much to be considered if one's boat is a recreational item, but when one is out on the deep blue in their home, far from a haul out, why take the risk? Where's the plus in putting an item that could fail on your boat, when there is another that cannot and does the job equally well, available?
How likely are they to fail? What are blue water boats using these days?
I installed a Lasdrop Gen II over the winter. The hardest part was finding someone competent enough to fit and face the coupling. Or maybe the hardest part was getting the coupling off of the shaft. Or maybe it was digging a hole so I could drop my rudder to get the shaft all the way out ....
I installed a Lasdrop Gen II over the winter. The hardest part was finding someone competent enough to fit and face the coupling. Or maybe the hardest part was getting the coupling off of the shaft. Or maybe it was digging a hole so I could drop my rudder to get the shaft all the way out ....
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 24,519
There was a guy a couple of months ago that was proud to share pictures that they had their wife dig a hole behind their boat to help remove the rudder.
That probably was not too hard on the guy, unless there was a bet and a significant pay off.
Huh? Realistic? I kinda think 18 charters this season has removed our boat from the recreational segment of the yacht-owning fraternity, don't you? Do you think a website like ours is just for show? I certainly don't have that sort of disposable income, charters or not.
I’m not disputing the higher degree of attention that needs to be paid to a boat you’re on all the time. What I find interesting is that every time this topic comes up, somebody starts with the straight to the bottom talk. I’m sure if you search the forum there’s commentary to that effect, and just like the earth isn’t flat anymore (although you can see it from here) the beauty of this forum is if something is a piece of excrement, it’ll bubble to the surface pretty quick.
Interestingly, as much as the bellows on the PSS could fail, the rubber hose connecting the shaft log and the "normal" stuffing box could fail, as well (and as easily), especially if not maintained or cared for properly. The effect is catastrophic in either case.
With the traditional stuffing box, you rely on the seal between a turning shaft and the stuffing. If you do not provide the cooling water to that seal, the shaft will be scored over time and would have to be replaced.
With the dripless seal, the seal is between two mated surfaces of the seal (a SS and a carbon one). That seal is designed for that (as opposed to the shaft, which is designed to turn the propeller). The shaft does not participate in sealing the water out.
In reality, this is a case of picking your poison. If you are unsure that the dripless seal would protect your boat from sinking, don't install it. But there is no higher probability in either case. If the boat sinks, that would be because of the lack of maintenance. The failing hose on one of the through hulls is more likely to sink her.
I, for one, like to have a dry bilge. Even if this means that my bilge pump does not get her regular exercise.
With the traditional stuffing box, you rely on the seal between a turning shaft and the stuffing. If you do not provide the cooling water to that seal, the shaft will be scored over time and would have to be replaced.
With the dripless seal, the seal is between two mated surfaces of the seal (a SS and a carbon one). That seal is designed for that (as opposed to the shaft, which is designed to turn the propeller). The shaft does not participate in sealing the water out.
In reality, this is a case of picking your poison. If you are unsure that the dripless seal would protect your boat from sinking, don't install it. But there is no higher probability in either case. If the boat sinks, that would be because of the lack of maintenance. The failing hose on one of the through hulls is more likely to sink her.
I, for one, like to have a dry bilge. Even if this means that my bilge pump does not get her regular exercise.
If you have a Practical Sailor subscription, check out their reviews of dripless systems and why you might want one.
https://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/26_22/features/4431-1.html
https://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/26_22/features/4431-1.html
I know of far more boats that have sunk due to traditional stuffing boxes than drip-less seals. That said I use a traditional box on our current boat but have owned four other boats with PSS seals..
A PSS generally needs more frequent hose replacements than a traditional box using a real packing box hose. These hose replacements can lead to shaft replacements and gear flanges so be prepared for that. The carbon-graphite rotor can also, and on most boats does, increase the rate of anode wasting so that is something to be aware of.
Both systems are time proven and work well.
A PSS generally needs more frequent hose replacements than a traditional box using a real packing box hose. These hose replacements can lead to shaft replacements and gear flanges so be prepared for that. The carbon-graphite rotor can also, and on most boats does, increase the rate of anode wasting so that is something to be aware of.
Both systems are time proven and work well.