Dread of the rebed

[Ducharme]

Title says it all. Got good reason to suspect my keel/hull joint as per attached photo.

Next valuable piece of information will be assessing the state of the keel bolts themselves. So here's my first question: anybody got the proper torque spec for a 1985 First 29 keel bolt?

Next question would be what's the best thread compound to be using on said bolts? I removed one so far (looked surprisingly good) and it had a pinkish, still moldable putty on it.

And this could probably be its own thread but for the potential rebed: 5200 versus a sikaflex product? And in my case, I'm putting a copper epoxy bottom on the boat--here I'm concerned that there is a "flexible" seam and I'm going to put an inflexible epoxy coating on top? Almost seems that I should leave a seam between the copper epoxy on keel and hull with whatever seam sealant I use....

 

[SG]

Why are you rebedding?

Was there a leak?

What ant fouling paint is on it now? What is keel made of?

 

[Ducharme]

So I'm really, really, REALLY hoping NOT to rebed. But:

There is a visible separation on the forward section of the cast iron keel running approximately two inches aft. There has also been persistent water in our bilge (though there are multiple problems here including leaking deadlights and a faulty check valve in a long bilge pump run so we really don't know what the source is).

Our storied hull seems to have had (from outside in) two coats ablative antifoul on top of two coats hard racing paint on top of some manner of original looking barrier coat.

We are looking to put on a new copper epoxy bottom. And hopefully live happily ever after. Hence, all this work to ensure a stable foundation to build upon.

 

[SG]

Thanks for the info.

Was the boat's keep grounded or otherwise banged up?

Are you having the paint soda blasted off before you start recoating? We had to have that done. When we went to a hard from the ablative we used to haven he old paint removed. Soda blasting in the hands of a pro is the fastest and easiest way. If you do it, eithe by sanding or blasting, be careful with what you take-off.

The cast iron keel -- aside from the bedding issues needs a bunch of prep and fairing.

 

[Ducharme]

Yeah, well there will be no soda blasting in our budget. There is moaning, cursing, a burning sensation in the upper extremities secondary to hour upon hour of above the shoulder grinding at 60 grit.

The keel is just epoxy paint on cast iron--here a beater chisel and my trusty deadblow chips it right off. Highly recommend eye protection to anyone who follows suit.

This is my first year with the boat. I have no knowledge nor is there any other sign of a hard grounding. Stringers inside look good. No significant stress cracking in layers below as the ablative comes off.

Again, really hoping not to drop the keel. Just need that torque spec and a thread anti-seize recommendation as I will be replacing the bolts one at a time at the very least.

 

[Ducharme]

Yeah, well, someone omitted the line for soda blasting in this year's boat budget. So there is no soda blast, only moaning, cursing, burning sensations in the upper extremities secondary to hour upon hour of grinding above the shoulders with 60 grit. We're about 60% there at this point.

Notably, the cast iron keel just has epoxy paint over it. This comes off rather handily with a beater chisel and my trusty dead blow mallet. Highly recommend full face shield to anyone who might want to follow suit--the chips do fly off with some energy. And they're sharp.

This is my second year with the boat. I have no knowledge of nor is there any sign of a significant hard grounding. Stringers intact. No stress cracking seen underneath the ablative.

Again, I am really, really hoping to not drop the keel. The next step is to inspect and replace the bolts one at a time. And to do that I need to figure out the correct torque spec and the proper type of anti-seize compound.

 

[SG]

I would suggest that you should call Beneteau America and discuss it with them.

(843) 629-5300
1313 W Highway 76
Marion, South Carolina​

If your French is very good, and you have access to an unlimited foreign telephone line, you might try France....
:^))).


In the meantime, I assume you're on the hard and your keel is WELL SUPPORTED, as is the rest of the boat. Be careful!

The Beneteau First 29 has a pretty narrow, deep keel compared to a lot of boats. You suspect that there may be an issue with one or more bolts. If I had to do that, I'd be adding jack stands, if I tried that. Further, I'd not do it on a windy day -- or leave the boat unattended. I'd assume that the boat might have an issue and make sure if you had an issue, you'd limited the consequential damages or injury to anyone if it fell over. (Put the ladder on the stern, don't park next to the boat, etc., etc.)

 

[Ducharme]

Turns out my French ain't half bad but it does lack specialized sailing jargon--thanks for the number, SG, I'll be giving them a jingle on the morrow.

And yes, nothing falling on anything/anybody is of paramount import.

 

[MitchM]

i'd try to find out if the h 2 0 in the bilge is weeping 'up' from keel bolts or 'down from ports or chainplates. draw a line around the circumference of the bilge with kids water soluble finger paint. go away and see if the paint gets washed 'down' towards the bilge by h 20 coming from above . if so you may not need to do anything to the keel bolts...

 

[FastOlson]

While keel bolts on all modern boats have an impressive reserve strength ratio, any bolts can develop corrosion if sea water gets trapped (out of sight) in the joint below the nut-and-washer.
I view it as preventative maintenance, on a 20 to 30 year cycle (in round numbers)...

Having some seepage from one of the bolts on our boat we had the keel dropped, checked, and re-bedded around 2004 or so. Turned out that we only had some surface corrosion on some of the threads. No harm, yet (!). With the joint all cleaned up, and re-bedded on oodles of new sealant, they torqued it up tight and there has never been a sign of a leak since.
Like worn out canvas or a top end rebuilt on the aux engine or a new main sail....... it's just one of those expenses that you budget for when keeping your boat a long time.
And, then, like having confidence that your rig is not so old it is gonna fall down, it's really Nice to Know that the keel isn't leaking or falling off either.

An experienced yard should do this is over a couple or days or so. The boat can sit on stands or in the slings while they check the bolts. Good time to replace the large washers/plates and the nuts, too. Our yard had a sort of welded-up steel "cage" that they routinely would lower a keel into, and use wood wedges and short timbers to stabilize it while off the boat.

 

[Hydro Therapy]

Do you have water in the bilge now? If so do you see it leaking out of the keel joint from the outside? I’m just wondering if your water in the bilge is from other sources. I would hate to see you waste time and money on rebedding the keel if not necessary.

 

[ErikFinn]

As someone mentioned please contact Beneteau USA. I received this pdf from them some years back, some very useful info there, I attach below: