Drain plug

[powdermoose]

[SIZE=+1]I bought an older Oday Javelin and the manual says that it is self-bailing. It has a drain plug aft and a drain plug in the cockpit well. I am leaving the aft plug in the boat when it's in the water although it is above the waterline when no one is in the boat. After it rained there was water in the cockpit well and cockpit floor... so it was not self-bailing. I moved the lever on the cockpit drain, but nothing happened. When I removed the cockpit drain it started taking water into the cockpit instead of draining water out. How does this thing self-bail? Do I need a different plug?
Thank you for the help.
Sandi[/SIZE]

 

[Joe11688]

[SIZE=+1]I bought an older Oday Javelin and the manual says that it is self-bailing. It has a drain plug aft and a drain plug in the cockpit well. I am leaving the aft plug in the boat when it's in the water although it is above the waterline when no one is in the boat. After it rained there was water in the cockpit well and cockpit floor... so it was not self-bailing. I moved the lever on the cockpit drain, but nothing happened. When I removed the cockpit drain it started taking water into the cockpit instead of draining water out. How does this thing self-bail? Do I need a different plug?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Thank you for the help.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Sandi[/SIZE]

Hi Sandi,
You shouldn't need drain plugs on this boat if the hose under the cockpit floor is good and not leaking. The way is works is; the sole or cockpit floor is higher than the waterline and whatever water should come in, will empty into a small well near the transom or stern. The hose is located under the well and is connected to the through-hull fittings in the well and the stern, just below the waterline. There could be another drain with a small threaded plug on the transom of your boat that could take care of any water that should get into the bilge, I don't know. My O'Day 222 has a self bailing cockpit and they are designed so that when water comes into the cockpit, it goes right out automatically.
I think you're going to need to find out if the hose under the cockpit floor of your boat is good and not leaking. I'm really not too familiar with the Javelin. Here's some pics of my boat so that you can have a better understanding of how the system works. The first two pics show the hoses. Actually, my boat came with one hose with a 90 degree bend in it and I Mickey Moused it with two hoses, a 90 degree nylon fitting, and a few stainless steel hose clamps. You can see the small well in the next pic.
I installed that deck plate in the center of the transom to aid me in working on that hose and getting at the two gudgeons that hold the rudder. After getting stuck in that lazarett hatch one day, I decided to find a better way. This last pic shows the thru hull on the stern near the waterline.
I hope that I was able to be of some help to you Sandi. Have a great summer sailing season.
Joe

 

[Sunbird22358]

How "old" is this JAVELIN? I am basing my answer on this being a 1973 or later model.
The (1973-85) Javelins and the DS II have the same self-bailer. Joe, there are no hoses, the bailer goes right thru hull and cockpit sole, water collects i na shallow well at aft end of cockpit and there is a "gutter" along each side of the cockpit to direct water aft to that well. The boat will "self-bail" when under way, suction is created by the water moving past the backwards "scoop" of the bailer. This is also the same bailer used on the SUNFISH sailboat. Anyway, yes, the bailer does let in a bit of water at rest. But if yo uget rain it will drain out once the water builds up higher than the outside waterline, ideally..... there is a little plastic ball inside the bailer that is SUPPOSED to seal the drain against water entry.......then if you get water inside the cockpit (due to rain, spray, or taking water over the lee rail) the water inside will pus hthe ball down enough to allow the inside water to drain. Yeh, Right! That is how it is supposed to work!! In reality.......well, a bit of water usually does flow in through the bailer at rest..... in 15 years of owning my DS II, I've yet to find a way to get the bailer to work as it should. So, I gave up...... the plug in the bailer is left open while moored to allow rai nto drain out, and while sailing or otherwise using the boat....I insert the plug to keep water out (easy enough to pull the plug out of the bailer if I took water over the side.) If I leave the boat in the water with a lot of rain forcast (and I mean a LOT!!) I usually remove the 1" plug that is higher up on the transom.......that way the water should never get higher than than that (yes ,water does flow in through that too..... but still better than depending on that little 5/8" hole i nthe bailer for draining a major amount of water.

 

[Joe11688]

Rod,
I found out later about the javelin self bailing system from my friend
Wayne and made a reply in her other thread in "Day Sailors." She posted the same thread in both forums. So I stand corrected.

Joe

 

[Sunbird22358]

Well, a lot of the larger O'Days have exactly the same setup as your 222...... so, it was an easy mistake! You are certainly the 222 "GURU" (I guess that would apply to the 192 as well) though...... and you have provided me with plenty of knowledge. Hopefully I've shared an equal amount of smaller O'DAY (especially Day Sailer II) info.

Powdermoose; Attached is a pic of my boat, bailer plug out... note the water level.

 

[Joe11688]

Well, a lot of the larger O'Days have exactly the same setup as your 222...... so, it was an easy mistake! You are certainly the 222 "GURU" (I guess that would apply to the 192 as well) though...... and you have provided me with plenty of knowledge. Hopefully I've shared an equal amount of smaller O'DAY (especially Day Sailer II) info.

Powdermoose; Attached is a pic of my boat, bailer plug out... note the water level.

Thank you for those kind words. I made it a point many years ago to try to know my boat very well so that I could do all the mods to it that really makes the boat more personal and easy to use. I picked Rudy's brains quite a bit and learned a lot of things about my boat that I never knew.
It's always fun to modify my boat every year. I did three mods to it this year and there's just no limit to what you can do to these boats.

I met with a guy from Ducksbury Ma last Saturday who has an O'Day 192 and has a mainsail jackline type of reefing that has me stumped. I showed him my reefing and explained how it worked, but when he showed me his mainsail, I couldn't make heads or tails out of it. He's going to check with a sailmaker that can help him with it. It will be interesting to find out how it works. He said that he'd keep in touch.

 

[powdermoose]

Just returned from vacation. The bilge is full and the cockpit had filled up with 4" of water. Luckily it was still floating since I had placed a tarp over the boom to create a semi-tent. I bailed the cockpit, but when I pulled the transom plug nothing came out of the bilge. I am thinking that the bilge is holding all of the water toward the bow. I was afraid to pull the drain plug in the cockpit since it took water in the last time that I did that rather than draining water out. There wasn't any water in the bilge when I did that before so the water had to be coming into the boat from the bottom of the boat somehow. Any ideas on what I should do to fix this? I am leaving again with a relief team to Joplin's tornado victims and then have another 2 week vacation coming to Utah. Bailing the boat to keep it from sinking it going to be a problem. Thank you for any suggestions!!!

 

[Joe11688]

Just returned from vacation. The bilge is full and the cockpit had filled up with 4" of water. Luckily it was still floating since I had placed a tarp over the boom to create a semi-tent. I bailed the cockpit, but when I pulled the transom plug nothing came out of the bilge. I am thinking that the bilge is holding all of the water toward the bow. I was afraid to pull the drain plug in the cockpit since it took water in the last time that I did that rather than draining water out. There wasn't any water in the bilge when I did that before so the water had to be coming into the boat from the bottom of the boat somehow. Any ideas on what I should do to fix this? I am leaving again with a relief team to Joplin's tornado victims and then have another 2 week vacation coming to Utah. Bailing the boat to keep it from sinking it going to be a problem. Thank you for any suggestions!!!

Sandi,
I would take it out of the water if you have a trailer and check to see if any water leaks out of the hull and make a note of where it's coming from. Water could also be getting into the bilge from the rain water in the cockpit. You need to really visually look for the leaks even if it means having to flip it over on dry land to look for cracks. They do have thru-hull plugs for this boat. This I know now. Let us know how you make out.

Joe

 

[powdermoose]

I was checking the bilge frequently so I don't think water was coming from the hull. I think your guess that it was coming from the cockpit was correct. I will get help to pull the boat out so I can finish draining the bilge. Is there a different drain plug that might work in the cockpit? May need to buy a bilge pump. Thanks again for all your advice. I really appreciate this.

 

[Joe11688]

I was checking the bilge frequently so I don't think water was coming from the hull. I think your guess that it was coming from the cockpit was correct. I will get help to pull the boat out so I can finish draining the bilge. Is there a different drain plug that might work in the cockpit? May need to buy a bilge pump. Thanks again for all your advice. I really appreciate this.

I think that any boat hull drain plug would work but I'm not sure Sandi. Just measure the hole and take a ride to Wal-Mart and see if their boat plugs are close to that hole size. The one that D&R Marine sells has this small handle thingy that expands the rubber stopper which keeps it from coming out of the thru-hull hole. I think they all work that way though. Here's a picture of it.

Those cheap hand plunger type bilge pumps work pretty good.
I keep a bailing scoop in my kayak that I made from one of those heavy duty plastic gallon liquid soap containers. I cut it so that it resembles a large scoop and left the handle and cover on it. I keep it tied to a long string attached to my kayak. We made one for our club dinghy and it works just as well as a hand pump. Have a great sailing season Sandi!
Joe

 

[powdermoose]

I finally got brave enough to pull the drain plug in the cockpit and it worked great. It filled up only the well just like your picture. YEAH. It looks like the problem is fixed since I don't see any water coming into the bilge. I will leave the tent tarp over the boom, keep the cockpit plug out until I sail it, pull the transom if it can't keep up with a heavy rain, and check out your suggestions for a backup bailing system (just have been using a bucket, cup and sponge).
I am thankful for both of you.... your pictures and advice!!!
Blessings,
Sandi

 

[Joe11688]

I'm happy that everything worked out OK for you Sandi. Have a great summer!

Smooth Sailing!
Joe

 

[Sunbird22358]

Sandi, I think the JAVELIN has a pair of inspection/bailing ports near the forward end of the cockpit? My DS II has them and it is not unheard of for water to seep in around the perimeter of the frame if rainwater builds up in a rainstorm, a bead of silicone sealant under the frames will help, the ports are held in with sheetmetal screws and are not hard to remove to rebed. Also, the original ports did not have a gasket in the plug. I replaced mine (they are a standard 4" screw-in port, Beckson is one name brand) since the caps were broken (leaks!) and the new ports have coarser threads making them easier to open/close. I did have to use a rasp to slightly enlarge the holes in the cockpit sole to fit the ever so slightly larger frames of hte Beskson ports, coarse sandpaper will work also. If you had 4" of rainwater in the cockpit I suspect it also may have leaked into the bilge around the hatch to the bow compartment.

 

[powdermoose]

Javelin drain plug

You have been such a huge help. There are 2 ports held with screws at the front of the cockpit so I will get silicone sealant and will look for the newer Beckson ports. Thank you again! I shudder to think what could have happened without your advice on this website.
Blessings,
Sandi

Sandi, I think the JAVELIN has a pair of inspection/bailing ports near the forward end of the cockpit? My DS II has them and it is not unheard of for water to seep in around the perimeter of the frame if rainwater builds up in a rainstorm, a bead of silicone sealant under the frames will help, the ports are held in with sheetmetal screws and are not hard to remove to rebed. Also, the original ports did not have a gasket in the plug. I replaced mine (they are a standard 4" screw-in port, Beckson is one name brand) since the caps were broken (leaks!) and the new ports have coarser threads making them easier to open/close. I did have to use a rasp to slightly enlarge the holes in the cockpit sole to fit the ever so slightly larger frames of hte Beskson ports, coarse sandpaper will work also. If you had 4" of rainwater in the cockpit I suspect it also may have leaked into the bilge around the hatch to the bow compartment.

 

[Lafayette88]

I recently bought a Day Sailer II and unfortunately the self-bailer is missing the ball that is supposed to go under the hull in the cup on the bottom of the boat. Queries: (i) is there somewhere to buy a ball and pins? (ii) What will be the effect on the craft if I don't bother to replace the ball and pins?

How "old" is this JAVELIN? I am basing my answer on this being a 1973 or later model.
The (1973-85) Javelins and the DS II have the same self-bailer. Joe, there are no hoses, the bailer goes right thru hull and cockpit sole, water collects i na shallow well at aft end of cockpit and there is a "gutter" along each side of the cockpit to direct water aft to that well. The boat will "self-bail" when under way, suction is created by the water moving past the backwards "scoop" of the bailer. This is also the same bailer used on the SUNFISH sailboat. Anyway, yes, the bailer does let in a bit of water at rest. But if yo uget rain it will drain out once the water builds up higher than the outside waterline, ideally..... there is a little plastic ball inside the bailer that is SUPPOSED to seal the drain against water entry.......then if you get water inside the cockpit (due to rain, spray, or taking water over the lee rail) the water inside will pus hthe ball down enough to allow the inside water to drain. Yeh, Right! That is how it is supposed to work!! In reality.......well, a bit of water usually does flow in through the bailer at rest..... in 15 years of owning my DS II, I've yet to find a way to get the bailer to work as it should. So, I gave up...... the plug in the bailer is left open while moored to allow rai nto drain out, and while sailing or otherwise using the boat....I insert the plug to keep water out (easy enough to pull the plug out of the bailer if I took water over the side.) If I leave the boat in the water with a lot of rain forcast (and I mean a LOT!!) I usually remove the 1" plug that is higher up on the transom.......that way the water should never get higher than than that (yes ,water does flow in through that too..... but still better than depending on that little 5/8" hole i nthe bailer for draining a major amount of water.

 

[Lafayette88]

Does any company, organization or website sell the "javelin self-bailing system" or its parts (ball and pin) that was mounted on the DS II?

 

[Sunbird22358]

D&R Marine www.drmarine.com or (508) 644-3001 has it in stock and avaialble online. Price is about $45 complete. If you call Rudy Nickerson (don't bother with e-mail, phone call is best!) he may be able to sell you just the parts that you need, but it is most likely worth replacing the entire unit anyway.
Wait, is that Fairhaven, MA? Call Rudy to make sure he will be open, and if so... drive up there on a Saturday morning, Rudy is open for walk-in customers almost every Saturday from 9-12. He is on Water St. in Assonet (Freetown). It is only a 15-20 minute ride for you. That way you save the shipping cost.