How do you sail downwind in a Hunter? The Hunter 28.5 (as most newer Hunters) has swept back spreaders which the mainsail will contact when eased for running. Should I invest in a wisker pole and keep the jib up. I do not have a spinaker and want to avoid that expense if possible. I usually just gybe back and forth so that I can sail on a broad reach and even then it is difficult to keep the main off the spreaders. What do other 28.5 owners do?
downwind sailing with swept back spreaders
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Sailing the B
...downwind is a challenge. Some people put all kinds of chafe protection on the spreader tips; others add chaffing patches to the main. There is some stuff in the archives about this much debated topic. I personally don't want to lay my new main up on the spreaders when sailing downwind so I tend to keep the sail just clear of the spreaders and keep broad reaching and jibing. It ain't perfect, but it keeps the sail from premature wear.
...downwind is a challenge. Some people put all kinds of chafe protection on the spreader tips; others add chaffing patches to the main. There is some stuff in the archives about this much debated topic. I personally don't want to lay my new main up on the spreaders when sailing downwind so I tend to keep the sail just clear of the spreaders and keep broad reaching and jibing. It ain't perfect, but it keeps the sail from premature wear.
Don't worry about it
While the B&R rig preclude a 90-degree angle on the main, 45-50 is fine for off-wind. It's also safer. I take the boom vang line off from the base of the mast and connect it to a stanchion post as a preventer so the boom won't accidentally gybe. If the main chafes a little, don't worry about it. No damage is likely, since the sail isn't moving much on the wire and you do it so seldom. Don't rule out a spinnaker, since it's much faster on the beam and broad run. Here's a link for a pole that's easy to install...
While the B&R rig preclude a 90-degree angle on the main, 45-50 is fine for off-wind. It's also safer. I take the boom vang line off from the base of the mast and connect it to a stanchion post as a preventer so the boom won't accidentally gybe. If the main chafes a little, don't worry about it. No damage is likely, since the sail isn't moving much on the wire and you do it so seldom. Don't rule out a spinnaker, since it's much faster on the beam and broad run. Here's a link for a pole that's easy to install...
Asymmetrical chute?
An asymmetrical chute is really easy to handle if you have a snuffer. No pole, no worries. It really is a nice solution for downwind sailing. You can find them on E-bay (used, generally, so be careful) pretty cheap. Or, buy a new one for around $1500, including a snuffer and turtle bag. A whisker pole is also a good solution, especially if you have a fairly large genoa. Sailing 'wing and wing' worked fairly well on my boat using that technique. But you still have the same issues with the main, either way. I certainly agree with Bill's suggestion to rig a preventer, or a 'boom-brake' to the main when sailing downwind. Moreover, I agree with you, insofar as I think that a broad reach can be preferable to a dead run, all things considered. Depending upon the wind and your sail wardrobe, jibing from broad reach to broad reach can actually be faster going from point A to point B than if you are sailing entirely 'before the wind.' Personally, I prefer to keep the main off of the shrouds, if I can, and agree wholeheartedly with Warren in that regard. Chafe, per se, might not be a problem, but I developed vertical stains on my old main that were caused by years of contact with the shrouds. Good luck. Have fun- Rick
An asymmetrical chute is really easy to handle if you have a snuffer. No pole, no worries. It really is a nice solution for downwind sailing. You can find them on E-bay (used, generally, so be careful) pretty cheap. Or, buy a new one for around $1500, including a snuffer and turtle bag. A whisker pole is also a good solution, especially if you have a fairly large genoa. Sailing 'wing and wing' worked fairly well on my boat using that technique. But you still have the same issues with the main, either way. I certainly agree with Bill's suggestion to rig a preventer, or a 'boom-brake' to the main when sailing downwind. Moreover, I agree with you, insofar as I think that a broad reach can be preferable to a dead run, all things considered. Depending upon the wind and your sail wardrobe, jibing from broad reach to broad reach can actually be faster going from point A to point B than if you are sailing entirely 'before the wind.' Personally, I prefer to keep the main off of the shrouds, if I can, and agree wholeheartedly with Warren in that regard. Chafe, per se, might not be a problem, but I developed vertical stains on my old main that were caused by years of contact with the shrouds. Good luck. Have fun- Rick
28.5 Down Wind
My main lasted 16 seasons and it was the shape and the flutter in the leach that caused me to get a new loose footed version with full top batten and IOR bottom battens. Full battens could be a problem if they take a reverse bend against the shrouds. Chafe was never that big an issue, but I let the main all the way out on the spreaders, adjust trim on the 155% Genoa for that point of sail; then trim the main in slightly using the boom vang and main sheet. Dead down wind is your slowest point of sail anyway. You could also run wing and wing with a whisker pole, and that can get you a slightly deeper angle, otherwise jibeing from broad reach to broad reach is faster.
My main lasted 16 seasons and it was the shape and the flutter in the leach that caused me to get a new loose footed version with full top batten and IOR bottom battens. Full battens could be a problem if they take a reverse bend against the shrouds. Chafe was never that big an issue, but I let the main all the way out on the spreaders, adjust trim on the 155% Genoa for that point of sail; then trim the main in slightly using the boom vang and main sheet. Dead down wind is your slowest point of sail anyway. You could also run wing and wing with a whisker pole, and that can get you a slightly deeper angle, otherwise jibeing from broad reach to broad reach is faster.
Asymmetrical chute on a 285
Getting in a little late on this discussion but I bought a used asymmetrical chute early last year from the gear for sale on this site. It was virtually new and fit my 285 to a "T". Took a little time to rig it because I found the snatch blocks on line @ Ebay along with the halyard and sheets. Took just a little time to get use to flying it too but I have to say that it was one of the best investments I ever made. In light wind conditions, where my "heavy" 150 gen dosn't do the job, the chute works great. I would recommend one to everyone even if the spreaders on your boat aren't swept back.
Getting in a little late on this discussion but I bought a used asymmetrical chute early last year from the gear for sale on this site. It was virtually new and fit my 285 to a "T". Took a little time to rig it because I found the snatch blocks on line @ Ebay along with the halyard and sheets. Took just a little time to get use to flying it too but I have to say that it was one of the best investments I ever made. In light wind conditions, where my "heavy" 150 gen dosn't do the job, the chute works great. I would recommend one to everyone even if the spreaders on your boat aren't swept back.
I don't know...
...if I'm gonna catch hell for this BUT I just have to critique the sail trim. Typically an akite is flown like a genoa, on the same side as the main. If you need to sail deep you can jibe the main and fly it wing on wing(although it is much slower). However, this main is on the wrong side. The boat is close to a beam reach and if the main were where it should be the boat would in fact be on a beam reach. As it sits in the pic, it is virtually useless. As for the spinnaker, if the sheet were eased, a small curl would begin to develope in the upper third of the luff. This would float the spinnaker out in front of the headstay where it would be much more effective. I make these observations for the sake of pointing out a major error with no intent on disparaging Bob.
...if I'm gonna catch hell for this BUT I just have to critique the sail trim. Typically an akite is flown like a genoa, on the same side as the main. If you need to sail deep you can jibe the main and fly it wing on wing(although it is much slower). However, this main is on the wrong side. The boat is close to a beam reach and if the main were where it should be the boat would in fact be on a beam reach. As it sits in the pic, it is virtually useless. As for the spinnaker, if the sheet were eased, a small curl would begin to develope in the upper third of the luff. This would float the spinnaker out in front of the headstay where it would be much more effective. I make these observations for the sake of pointing out a major error with no intent on disparaging Bob.
I'm confused
To me it looks as if he's on a dead run and the main is pulled tight and straight as to not get in the way (aka..he's not using his main). Assuming I got the angle of the picture right and the wind directional at the top of the mask is right, he's on a dead run.
To me it looks as if he's on a dead run and the main is pulled tight and straight as to not get in the way (aka..he's not using his main). Assuming I got the angle of the picture right and the wind directional at the top of the mask is right, he's on a dead run.
Alan, I'm not going to give you hell! 
Alan, I'm not going to give you hell! I'm just going to explain the facts. The shot in my posting was done with a wide-angle lens and so perspectives can get a little strange. (Trust me I'm a professional photographer.) In my shot you can see the split backstay at the top, almost center of the shot, which runs almost horizontally in the photo. This, of course in reality, is in line with the stern of the boat. Or in other words, the backstay that comes form the top of the mast down to the split marks the centerline of my boat. The winds were coming over the starboard/aft railing and so I was flying the chute towards the port side (like a gen) with the main almost lined up (rear to front) with the direction of the wind. I didn't want to go wing on wing here for reasons I can't remember. Probably because I'd really have to attach a line to the end of the boom and then to the starboard toe rail to pull the main way over to the starboard side to make it effective. I couldn't let the main over to my port side because it's wind shadow would make the chute less effective or even collapse it which is part of the procedure in bringing the chute down. So I probably was just "parking" the main where you see it till I changed to another point of sail. In short I wanted to keep as much "wind shadow" off the chute as possible. Like I mentioned before, a wide-angle lens does do strange things. When I first saw this photo on my computer (it's digital) I was kind of thrown as to the position of the backstay to the spreaders and the mast fly. It looks twisted to me!
Alan, I'm not going to give you hell!
I'm just going to explain the facts. The shot in my posting was done with a wide-angle lens and so perspectives can get a little strange. (Trust me I'm a professional photographer.) In my shot you can see the split backstay at the top, almost center of the shot, which runs almost horizontally in the photo. This, of course in reality, is in line with the stern of the boat. Or in other words, the backstay that comes form the top of the mast down to the split marks the centerline of my boat. The winds were coming over the starboard/aft railing and so I was flying the chute towards the port side (like a gen) with the main almost lined up (rear to front) with the direction of the wind. I didn't want to go wing on wing here for reasons I can't remember. Probably because I'd really have to attach a line to the end of the boom and then to the starboard toe rail to pull the main way over to the starboard side to make it effective. I couldn't let the main over to my port side because it's wind shadow would make the chute less effective or even collapse it which is part of the procedure in bringing the chute down. So I probably was just "parking" the main where you see it till I changed to another point of sail. In short I wanted to keep as much "wind shadow" off the chute as possible. Like I mentioned before, a wide-angle lens does do strange things. When I first saw this photo on my computer (it's digital) I was kind of thrown as to the position of the backstay to the spreaders and the mast fly. It looks twisted to me!
Hey Bob,
First let me say thanks for understanding where I'm comming from. I understand about prespectives and lens distortion. I'm an amateur photographer and have taken the Nikon School of Photograhpy courses. You have to admit that carrying the sail with leech to the wind is a little 'unconventional', though I understand your reason for doing so. This is the major drawback of cruising spinnakers. Easing the spin sheet and allowing it to draw would have helped the cause. Anyway, thanks again for 'allowing' the critique. Happy Sails
First let me say thanks for understanding where I'm comming from. I understand about prespectives and lens distortion. I'm an amateur photographer and have taken the Nikon School of Photograhpy courses. You have to admit that carrying the sail with leech to the wind is a little 'unconventional', though I understand your reason for doing so. This is the major drawback of cruising spinnakers. Easing the spin sheet and allowing it to draw would have helped the cause. Anyway, thanks again for 'allowing' the critique. Happy Sails
Hey Bob,
First let me say thanks for understanding where I'm comming from. I understand about prespectives and lens distortion. I'm an amateur photographer and have taken the Nikon School of Photograhpy courses. You have to admit that carrying the sail with leech to the wind is a little 'unconventional', though I understand your reason for doing so. This is the major drawback of cruising spinnakers. Easing the spin sheet and allowing it to draw would have helped the cause. Anyway, thanks again for 'allowing' the critique. Happy Sails
First let me say thanks for understanding where I'm comming from. I understand about prespectives and lens distortion. I'm an amateur photographer and have taken the Nikon School of Photograhpy courses. You have to admit that carrying the sail with leech to the wind is a little 'unconventional', though I understand your reason for doing so. This is the major drawback of cruising spinnakers. Easing the spin sheet and allowing it to draw would have helped the cause. Anyway, thanks again for 'allowing' the critique. Happy Sails
Hey Alan
I'd be the first to admit that sailing with the main leech to the wind is a bit "unconventional", as you say, but not if you're sailing in the "slot" as I call it south of Havre de Grace, MD on the Chesapeake Bay. That is when the shot was taken. The "slot" is the narrow channel, just south of the Susquehanna River, from Havre de Grace which leads to the bay's wider sailing area. One slip-up, especially when flying a spinnaker and you're aground. After passing a place called "Battery Light" the channel turns to port (going south) and opens up where more points of sail are an option and so is positioning the boom to make the main more efficient. As for being a photographer, I never took an “official” course in my life but I do have 30 years in the business. Fair winds!
I'd be the first to admit that sailing with the main leech to the wind is a bit "unconventional", as you say, but not if you're sailing in the "slot" as I call it south of Havre de Grace, MD on the Chesapeake Bay. That is when the shot was taken. The "slot" is the narrow channel, just south of the Susquehanna River, from Havre de Grace which leads to the bay's wider sailing area. One slip-up, especially when flying a spinnaker and you're aground. After passing a place called "Battery Light" the channel turns to port (going south) and opens up where more points of sail are an option and so is positioning the boom to make the main more efficient. As for being a photographer, I never took an “official” course in my life but I do have 30 years in the business.
Fair winds!
Gentlemen, "one sheet to the wind" ;D
(i.e. the equivalent of "three sheets to the wind" in a classic three-masted vessel) might perhaps be a more proper term here than "leech to the wind". Whereas Google can only come up with three hits for "leech to the wind" (most of these referring to a spicy beef jerky favored by Amazon Indian tribes) the term "three sheets to the wind" will produce no fewer than 30,200 hits.....! Q.E.D. Flying Dutchman
(i.e. the equivalent of "three sheets to the wind" in a classic three-masted vessel) might perhaps be a more proper term here than "leech to the wind". Whereas Google can only come up with three hits for "leech to the wind" (most of these referring to a spicy beef jerky favored by Amazon Indian tribes) the term "three sheets to the wind" will produce no fewer than 30,200 hits.....! Q.E.D. Flying Dutchman
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