Downwind Sail - Beneteau 311

[Jimbeaux]

Does anyone have any experience outfitting a B311 for downwind sailing?

The owner’s manual shows an optional starboard clutch and winch on the coach roof for spinnaker pole and foreguy which is not equipped on my boat. Is the simplest solution to go with an asym? She doesn’t seem to be set up optimally from a bowsprit perspective as far as my novice knowledge can tell. Any insight greatly appreciated.

 

[sail sfbay]

With your fractional rig and bow roller extended somewhat from the bow you will be able to attach the downhaul line to the bow roller without a bowsprit and have sufficient clearance from your furled jib to fly a spinnaker. I would buy an asymmetrical spinnaker and forgo a spinnaker pole. Simpler to deploy and douse. You can go with a sock or a top down furler with a continuous furling line operated from the cockpit. Do an internet search on "asymmetrical spinnaker rigging" for guidance on rigging steps what additional blocks and lines you will need,

 

[jon hansen]

a spinnaker and an Aspinnaker are very different sails. i have a racing Aspinnaker and it is about half the horse power of my spinnakers.
the 'a' is a reaching sail and not a running sail.
you can put either sail in a sock.
it takes more work to fly a spinnaker. you get more when you do more. "these younger sailors just don't want to do the work" the old craggley captain mumbled, they're ......... is all.
flying a spinnaker in a breeze is my favorite thing to do on my sailboats. " yippee, ride em cowboy, surf's up" and all that.
A-sail is for light winds ish, spinnaker lets you play in the "big"

my brand new spinnaker is waiting for me to pick up in detroit. i'm waiting till the mich gov says i can come.

 

[cstonedent]

on my 311 I selected an asym. I have read in other posts that the bow roller on these boats is not strong enough to contend with the upward force an asym. would generate. If you go to Neil Pryde web site they show a system to attach the tack to the forestay. I am using this system with moderate success. Ideally the tack is more forward on a bow sprit. There are removable options that can be used and which I intend to upgrade to in the future. Even with my compromised set up having a downwind sails greatly enhances light air and downwind performance. My wife has not enjoyed bumping up the learning curve as much as I have(efficient jibing is still somewhere in the future), but I look forward to the day when I can be confident deploying the sail with 15-20 kts of following wind and laughing until I cry.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I have a spinnaker that I’ve used in racing. But, when racing the cans it’s a piece of gear that I need a crew of five to use well. Helm, pit, starboard/port trimmers, and foredeck. Can get by with fewer if there are longish downwind runs, such as Newport-Ensenada. A trimmer doubles in the pit. With just Admiral and me cruising, we rarely use it. First, we don’t do much DDW work on our usual points of sail, dominated by broad reaching. Broad reaching with the chute up is fine until we start to see true wind speed passing 12 kt. At that point, without crew to help manage, we wish to douse it b/f seeing 15-18 kt true. Ultimately, we’d have to go lower and lower to keep the boat flat, until at some point we’re heading ENE instead of NNE, etc. Yes, it is a lot of work.

So, the ways around using the spinnaker but with an eye on maximizing VMG are the asymmetrical “spinnaker” and wing-‘n’-wing. With the asymmetrical only, however, you basically give up DDW courses in favor of gybing downwind toward destination for your higher VMG. For actual DDW you might need to be able to rig for wing-‘n’-wing. That requires a pole. Not a spinnaker pole, but a whisker pole; and you need a place on deck to stow it. Not as fast DDW as a spinnaker, but two “senior” crew can handle it OK in fairly high wind. Going from a broad reach to a run, just fall off until the jib loses its air. Go forward to pull it through the foretriangle, hook up the pole, and then have the helm trim to position the pole, etc. You’re off!

 

[Calif. Ted]

I have a "Flasher" from UK, most sailmakers have something similar and they are the easiest to use. This video may be helpful in that it shows the basics of rigging. I like very small sheets lead to the smaller cabin top winches, and I'm able to raise and lower from cabin top at base of the mast rather than out on the foredeck.

 

[Jimbeaux]

Is a tack collar necessary here?

 

[Will Gilmore]

Here a link to the Polars, posted by @Jackdaw a couple of years ago, for the 375.
Racing a Beneteau 311 w/Fin Keel and Centerboard

It looks like you might want to leave the spin in the bag and go for a broad reach when the wind gets over 12 knots.

It'd be interesting to see how your own polars compare. Don't modern navigators generate them for you?

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Calif. Ted]

Is a tack collar necessary here?

Not absolutely, but it helps a lot with trimming and it prevents the tack line from putting pressure on pulpit and lifelines. Without it the tack line goes inside or outside pulpit depending on heading and so it's not right half the time. They do seem a bit pricey. Think it was only $90 when I got it, maybe that's why they raised the price, no repeat business. Before ATN collared the market, so to speak, many sailmakers made their own version. Some were a couple nylon web straps sometimes with sailcloth like the plastic part on current models and some D. rings.The plastic collar just makes it a little easier to adjust.

 

[CapitalistSailor]

I use an asymmetrical spinnaker on Footloose, a B311, as can be seen in the picture to the left (I was sailing too low as I was approaching a mark but it's a pretty shot). The 311 is undercanvassed for light winds, and I wanted something to keep the boat moving off the wind on light air days. I can sail down to about 120-130 degrees apparent with this A1.5, which is about 150 or more true wind angle. If I sail too low the draw of the sail dies quickly; then I have to head up to get moving again and start working down. It is also possible to sail wing and wing but difficult.

I have attached a better shot below. In this shot I was on a reach, well above 90 deg apparent, in a singlehanded race. I was threading my way though more than a hundred fishing boats on the edge of the dredged shipping channel in peak perch season. I think there was maybe 6-8 knots of wind. You can see that the boat is pretty well loaded up.

If your goal is to sail dead downwind, as in a upwind-downwind buoy race, this sail will not meet your needs very well, but if your goal is to keep moving off the wind on light days this sail is just the thing. Mine is 621 sq. ft. or 57 sq. m., which is more than the normal 116% jib and regular main combined, but not as big as a symmetrical spinnaker with a pole would be. I use a long tack line (spare halyard line) that runs through a block fastened on the anchor roller just ahead of the forestay, but not ahead of the hull. The tack of the sail runs above the bow pulpit. The tack line is loosened off the wind, and tightened up when sailing above a reach to get a tight luff. in 4-6 knots apparent I can sail up to 50 degrees apparent, but I have the watch the leeway. In very light winds the sail will fill, and the boat will seem to be moving, but with the B311 small keel the boat just goes sideways.

I use long sheets so I can do outside gybes. The biggest thing to watch is to make sure the lazy sheet is not caught on something around the bow (like the anchor roller) before gybing. Let the sheet go and blow out in front of the boat before swinging deep into the turn.

I handle this spinnaker more often than not singlehanded. I don't find that spinnaker socks are much help, and the top down furlers are too expensive. I launch the sail from the bag on the lee side with the bag placed just ahead of the boom. I launch and douse heading about 160 degrees true, so the spinnaker goes up and down in the lee of the main and the jib. I am careful to make sure that the sheet is loose enough (but with a slip knot stopper knot) that the sail can't fill until the tack line and halyards are where I want them and I'm ready. Marks on the lines help.The jib also prevents wraps. I douse the under the boom and down into the cabin. Since the sail is intended for use in light air, I haven't (yet) had the sail overpower the boat and become hard to get down. (Although I do doublehanded distance races on a friend's boat and he hates to take the spinnaker down in a building wind until we've broached, often when I'm the only one on deck, at night, and/or with an approaching storm.)

Without a spinnaker it is faster sailing straight downwind wing and wing. A whisker pole helps. I can sail a little by the lee to keep the jib full, but I have to watch for gybes and/or use a preventer. When heading somewhere not quite dead downwind (DDW), it works well to sail wing and wing and alternate with a broad reach high enough to keep the jib pulling.

Jackdaw has posted the polars for the B311 somewhere in this forum. You might want to look for them. Note that these polars were for an asymmetrical spinnaker.

 

[jssailem]

You look good in the image. Sail is drawing well. If you mean competing against a regular spinnaker, Then they do sail fast directly down wind. But it is suggested that an asymmetrical sailed smartly is almost as fast then tacked down wind.