Downwind 360 penalty turn procedure

[Grizz]

Don, this question/situation surfaced as a group of the crew coped w/ 7 degrees ambient in the frozen north. We came up with several options/procedures but no concensus as to what would be the best. Perhaps you can help settle it for us. Here's the particulars:while sailing a starboard broad reach under symmetrical spinnaker we fouled the turning mark as we trimmed to a broad run for the final leg. There are boats well aft of us, so we have room to execute our penalty turn. The headsail is on the starboard deck, the working jib sheet is currently trapped beneath the pole, having been dropped to the deck during our down-wind jibes (not anticipated to be needed on the final leg) but can be re-rigged if necessary.We're sailing in 14 knots of true wind, 2 foot seas, a 1.3 mile last-leg length and a capable crew of 5 (except for the helmsman who nicked the tetrahedron!).How would you execute your penalty w/o having the trailing boats pass you, foul the spinnaker in the rigging and make you look and feel every worse than you already do?Thanks for your help with this quiery. Take care.

 

[mike C16582]

don't turn yet

Grizz, you do not have to make your turns immediately. You have to make them before you reach the next mark and/or finish line, so while under spinnaker, sail to the mark and/or finish line, drop the kite early, do your tuns and then round the mark (finish line).This will save you some time, you'll hopefully be able to distance yourself from the competition long enough to do your turns.

 

[Don Guillette]

Penalty Turn

Grizz: A great name!! Mike C is right - in my opinion. I would not attempt the turn until later. One reason is that one mistake has already been made and why compound it with a hasty decision. I can understand where your coming from as I hate those penalties and they weigh on my mind as I proceed down the course but I prefer to wait for a better time to execute it. Unfortunately, sometimes that better time does not present itself and you end up eating it. Positions are lost but so be it. I would never mess with a penality turn with a spinnaker but I don't race a lot with spinnaker - most of the folks I deal with have enough problems with the jib!!Hopefully, some of the excellent racers like Alan, Stu, Joe from Mission Bay and others can chime in and give their opinion. What caused you to hit the mark? This may not have been the cause but I see it a lot and the cause is not the driver. It is the mainsheet trimmer. The following applies to not only racers but cruiser trying to make any turn - around a mark or into a marina or whatever. The mainsail is like a big barn door rudder. It has enough force to overcome the rudder. Try as the driver will to turn the boat the driver can't do it as the boat wants to keep going straight. The remedy is for the mainsheet rimmer to drop the traveler slowly as you approach the turn. This is a little tricky because if he does it too quickly or too much it will cause the driver to smack the mark.

 

[Alan]

Sorry to disagree.

If the rules did not forbid it then waiting to the end of the leg would be a wise choice. In match racing that is the case, however in RRS rule 31.2 "A boat that has broken rule 31.1 may, after getting well clear of other boats as soon as possible, take a penalty by promptly making one turn including one tack and one gybe. When a boat takes the penalty after touching a finishing mark, she shall sail completely to the course side of the line before finishing. However, if a boat has gained a significantadvantage in the race or series by touching the mark her penalty shallbe to retire."The key words being "...as soon as possible...". Waiting to take your turn(s) will get you a DSQ.

 

[Alan]

My choice...

... in this case I would douse the spinnaker and immediately do a 360 and relaunch the spinnaker. In 14 kts true that will take about 30 seconds. After tacking and preparing to jibe the spinnaker should be on the way up. All lines would still be in place from previously. If the crew is working well together and knows their job this might even take less time.

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Thanks Alan

I had forgotten that you can take a turn after hitting a mark ... I remember when you had to re-round the mark. You guys have it so easy these days ... "The headsail is on the starboard deck, the working jib sheet is currently trapped beneath the pole, having been dropped to the deck during our down-wind jibes (not anticipated to be needed on the final leg) but can be re-rigged if necessary.We're sailing in 14 knots of true wind, 2 foot seas, a 1.3 mile last-leg length and a capable crew ..."In 14 knots true why is the pole on deck? Most boats should be faster sailing angles in that wind speed. Something like 135-140 deg true and 105-110 deg apparent.Forgetting that, I would make the Gybe first and drop the chute on the windward foredeck. The you should have enough boat speed to do a turn under just the main. As Alan said as soon as the tack is completed you are starting a bear-away set. If the pole was still up you could set sooner and use the chute to help you finish the turn down to your best VMG angle. With no pole, you would have to wait until the boat was closer to DDW before you re-set.

 

[Grizz]

Darn figures of speech!

Sorry Moody, my bad, just being loose with the English language. The pole is up, where it needs to be under symmtertric spinnaker. The jib sheet, which we didn't think we'd need and used to be up-and-over the pole forward of the topping lift, is now laying on the deck (and thus trapped beneath the pole if we have to hoist the jib and tack).Alan's point about "...as soon as possible" came up frequently during our group 'discussion', most saying "you gotta do it as soon as you're clear", a minority saying "sail fast and git 'er done before you cross". Based upon what I'm hearing from this feed back, you do it early, eat the time and get back up to speed as sonn as possible. We did, but wondered as a crew if we had to and about how we did our penalty turn.Don was close in his guess as to 'why', 'cause it was a combination of helm chopping the corner w/ main sheet easing early and quickly: a bad daily double. You wouldn't think an inflated tetrahedron would make a distinctive sound...but it will. Ouch.FWIW, the 360 was started w/in 3-4 BL of the mark and took less than minute, our speed not helped at all by the confusion caused by these commands shouted 'Tower of Babel' simultaneously: "we fouled", "gotta do a turn", "blow the guy", "who's got the spin halyard?", "don't douse down the hatch", "What?", "leave it on the deck so it's ready", "don't touch anything with the pole" and "prepare to tack". There may have been a few random utterances not suitable for the Family Channel. Oh, for an audio tape! Thanks for your responses, each of you has helped settle a simmering wager. Fantastic!

 

[mike c]

I stand corrected

Thanks Alan, I stand corrected. That only applies to Match racing.