Double braid rope eye splice woes

[George Da Porge]

See the attached pics. These are my genoa sheets. New England Ropes Sta-Set, 7/16” diameter. This is after about 4 hours of sailing, although I noticed the core peaking out of the starboard sheet after only a short period of use. I did the eye splices. These are from a group of the first eye splices I’ve done. I felt pretty good about my execution, but obviously I did something incorrectly.

I used Samson fids and instructions. The splices are lock-stitched. Any ideas on what I did wrong? Cut the core off too short? Thanks!

 

[Roadking Larry]

Kind of hard to tell with out actually handling them but cutting the core too short could be the problem.

I'm not any kind of an expert and I can't make a splice from memory. I bought the Samson splicing kit and walk through the instructions each time I make a splice. I also downloaded the instruction PDFs from Samson's website.
http://www.samsonrope.com/Pages/SpliceInstructions.aspx

I made a dozen or so practice splices on odds and ends of line and did some non-scientific strain testing on them before I spliced my halyards. Neither have any issues. I also spliced the lines for my traveler and my Cunningham line.

Cut 'em back and try again. It's good therapy.

 

[Joe]

Why did you put eye splices in your sheets? I'm trying to imagine how you would incorporate them into your sail handling.

 

[Alan]

Joe, luggage tag eye splice could be used at the clew but only if no sail changes are envisioned. Folks who only use one roller furled head sail might use that configuration.
I use "J" locks for my genoas for quick sail changes and they use a very tight eye splice for attachment.

 

[jibes138]

I have one of those Samson tools also buried in a pile of other tools and stuff I will never use again. Total PITA with the pusher and the fid and handling all that stuff. I bought a tool once called a Supersnake, it was fantastic but it broke after about 4 splices. So I thought about it and made my own tool that is as good as the supersnake but will never break and will last forever. See this link for a picture and instructions. Free of charge I might add. You can make a smaller version for small lines using any kind of stiff but ductile wire. http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=104639&highlight=magic+splicing+tool

 

[All U Get]

I used Samson fids and instructions. The splices are lock-stitched. Any ideas on what I did wrong? Cut the core off too short? Thanks!

Like Roadking suggested, cut it off and try again. I had problems with getting the core and cover inside without snagging another strand inside. I used a little Dawn soap to lube the line going inside and was finally able to get them through. I can even do old lines now without much problems. I also put a finish nail through the crossover to hold the lines together while milking the cover. It holds better for me, even with old hands doing the work.

I put eyes on every short line I had just for the practice. My fenders have them in case I need to retrieve one with a boat hook. Quick ties for everything, wrap around the object, thread through the eye, and then two half hitches. I hope this helps.

All U Get

 

[wflowe2]

Joe and I have the same question. WHY? I suggest a bowline it's much easier and you can change sails and reverse the ends to increase longevity of the sheets.

 

[woodster]

study the videos online on how to splice and eye in double braid they are very helpful ...but in order to do a back spliced eye there is a lot of energy involved especially in burying the cover ...i finally got me a weight lifters bar with a swivel hook made in the middle ...the bar weighs about 10 lbs...but when you whip the line attached to the bar it makes the cover disappear but so far i am happy with doing it that way also seize the line about 1/2 inch below the eye when it is complete

 

[George Da Porge]

Thanks for the feedback. I followed the Samson instructions and video. Will look for a different video to compare.

Also - I've smoothed the Samson aluminum fids with 1000 grit paper. When Samson stamps the fid size and other stuff on it, rough ridges are left. I didn't do this until after I spliced (smart, eh?), but those ridges may have snagged some cover strands.

I am using the eye splices on our genoa sheets, mainsheets, traveler lines, etc. Any line attached to hardware with a pin. I like the look, I think they're functional, and I enjoy doing that kind of thing. Also, I'm leaving enough length on the lines to put a splice on the bitter end if I want to reverse them.

On our old genoa sheets the bowline knots give us trouble by catching on the shrouds, especially when it's windy. I'm using a Dyneema soft shackle to attach the sheets to the clew, so the lines are "smoother" coming off of it.

 

[Tom G P-21]

Do you have a picture of your splice before they failed, that might help to see how long you are burying the core. I just started doing eye splices on double braided line using the Samson fids. One trick I found was at the last step when burying the core I used the next fid size down. This allowed me to get it in a little further. The other trick is to use a twist tie around the buried cover (All U get uses a finishing nail for the same thing). This is the video I used but using the samson method of tapering the line. They used Selma fids which look a little easier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym1-rI0SdaA

Also, Jibes, the hook method of splicing is available commercially as D-splicer.

 

[Joe]

Joe, luggage tag eye splice could be used at the clew but only if no sail changes are envisioned. Folks who only use one roller furled head sail might use that configuration.
I use "J" locks for my genoas for quick sail changes and they use a very tight eye splice for attachment.

Luggage tag eye splices work well for shackles... I use them on the single braid, 12 strand core of my tapered halyards... but the picture of the failed splices are of double braid and no reference to shackle attachment. I am just curious about George's application.

 

[FastOlson]

From a "cow" to a "bowline"

I have one of those Samson tools also buried in a pile of other tools and stuff I will never use again. Total PITA with the pusher and the fid and handling all that stuff. I bought a tool once called a Supersnake, it was fantastic but it broke after about 4 splices. So I thought about it and made my own tool that is as good as the supersnake but will never break and will last forever. See this link for a picture and instructions. Free of charge I might add. You can make a smaller version for small lines using any kind of stiff but ductile wire. http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=104639&highlight=magic+splicing+tool

I have a "supersnake" that must be 30 years old. Works great. No one has mentioned one of those for a long long time.

For terminating jib sheets now, I use a bowline... and that's only because a few years ago we got an override in a primary winch, close hauled in heavy air, and had to cut that expensive sheet at the clew.... Always had a cow hitch in one long sheet until then.
(sigh)

Cheers,
Loren

 

[Charles Erwin]

Here another video that is better narrated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UghIS9xdiDw

Charles

 

[mm2347]

If you decide to use a knot try a buntline hitch. East to tie, won't shake out like a bowline, is usually smaller and snugs up to clue. It is a bit harder to untie.

 

[Roadking Larry]

A couple of things I've taken to doing with splices that seem to make it go better - I use a couple of strong alligator clips to hold the ends of the tapered cover where it sticks out of the core and to hold the crossover together and I'll use the next size smaller fid when pushing the core back through the cover.

 

[Joe]

If you tie your bowline so the end is inside the loop you'll have a smoother knot. The "cowboy" bowline, on the right, is prone to snagging.

I love the buntline hitch... but not as a sheet attachment. It's true that it will not shake out because the more you tension it the tighter it gets...but that makes it very difficult to untie. Not good when it's wet and cold.

The headsail clew flogging the bowline undone, or the knot snagging on the shrouds, is a symptom of sail handling issues. Changing the knot won't prevent damage to an excessively flogging sail or abrasion to it from the wire.

 

[jibes138]

Also, Jibes, the hook method of splicing is available commercially as D-splicer.

Thanks for the heads up. Looks exactly like a coat hanger with hooked ends for 9 bucks and change. I'm not sure what they use the handle for, the method that came with the supersnake tool only requires the hooked coat hanger, no other tools required except a pointed tool to pick the core out to get started, some blue painters tape, and a sharpie marker.

 

[bigjim]

I’ve done dozens of eye splices using Samson fids and another brand. At first I really hated the Samson tools. Then, I learned the secret. First, get good electric tape. It’s very slippery. Tape the end of the line in the fid. Then, really thin the core and the cover before you try to pass them back through. It passes through must easier when thinned sufficiently. I’ve never had an eye splice fail like that. You must have some high strain on them. One idea would be to use a stainless steel or plastic thimble. This will dramatically reduce the stress on the eye And increase its strength.

 

[RoyS]

Wear leather gloves when burying the core. There is a lot of friction generated during the process and your bare skin is not up to the task.

 

[All U Get]

Wear leather gloves when burying the core. There is a lot of friction generated during the process and your bare skin is not up to the task.

Some of us have callouses, I’m not just a pretty face.