Don't you hate it when this happens....

[MrBill_FLL]

so there I was, sailing along... 10-15 knts.. glad I put the spare aboard... gotta say one thing... mac's tow like cr@p with no rudder.. http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h169/ftldiver2/SailingOctHmstd/PA130013.jpgglad I had a spare:http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h169/ftldiver2/SailingOctHmstd/PA130014.jpg

 

[Mark M26D]

Bummer

I have a question though, was the rudder pinned down?

 

[Ron]

Ouch!

Mr Bill,Sorry to see that, have you been able to draw any conclusions about this failure?

 

[Stan Breaux21640]

What kind of rudder is that?

Is it Ida?

 

[MrBill_FLL]

mark M26d

MarkM has the best insight to possible problem/solution... it will be replaced free, and was about 1 yr old. I used it same was as always, and it sure seemed to be all the way down. (I looked for seaweed after about 20 min... when pulling the motor up, and it seemed down then...)I will be getting some more pins for sure...breakage aside, the high performance rudder is really great. when I sailed back with the stock rudder, it was sure hard to hold a course...Mark, what insights can you offer on pinning the rudder?ps: with no rudder in the water, the boat swings like crazy. the tow boat was only doing about 4 knots, and it was very uncomfortable. I was not sure if the tow eye would hold... (and I put the tow eye in) if the tow was longer we would have gotten out of the mac.

 

[Abby Normal]

Uh Oh...

Does this seem to be an inherent problem with HDPE material being used for rudders?An IdaSailor rudder is at the top of my list of winter improvements. I'm not questioning the quality of Ida's products, I've got one of their tillers and I'm very impressed with their quality control. My concern is whether or not the HDPE material the rudders are being made from will weather well in the sun.

 

[Justin_NSA]

bummer

I hope that's just a fluke 'cause I have the Ida rudder too. I would hate for it to snap when the weather gets rough and I'm trying to make it back. I keep my old one as a spare but conditions aren't always condusive to hanging over the stern to bolt it on.Maybe I should consider sandwiching the rudder between steel plates that could spread the load out more?

 

[MrBill_FLL]

snapped rudder pin vs no pin?

I'm pretty anal about keeping the rudder down, but I'm only using a low strech line with some blocks for advantage...In the wind and sea conditions, on saturday, I think I would have noticed if it has moved up a little... the boat was handling great. (the Ida rudder really changes the boat! for the better!!!) what I'm wondering is if pinning the rudder would stop the breaking? (survey says???)on the last (breakage) trailer sailor thread (chris ?) it looked like the S bracket was comming apart... I've got the D, so thats different, but it looks to be in about the same spot... (sheer)anyway, if you do have the high performance rudder, put the stock one back on the boat! (under the aft berth) if you had to get towed any distance it will be miserable... and in a heavy sea, could pull out the bow eye. (IMHO)installing the replacement was easy once in shallow and calmer waters... but offshore it could be tough. (maybe an extra pivit nut and bolt too!)---Oh yeah, MarkM what can you tell me about that broken stock rudder? I'm thinking of adding some Fiberglass to the leading edge of the stock rudder....

 

[Chris (Mac 26S)]

S - downhaul - breakage and misc ramblings...

Hey! I heard my name mentioned!Yes, we have the S model but the bracket was not the issue. There is a huge thread on the "other" Mac forum about the S bracket. Bottom line with that seems to be the pivot nut backing off. Some talk about it "shearing" but since the same size SS bolt holds the forestay to the mast, I can't see that happening. But, locknuts only work for so many "on - off" cycles before the insert gets chewed up.In our case, the pivot bolt was still in place and tight.One thing I remembered is a conversation with Joel at Ida Sailor. There are thin "cheek blocks" welded to each side of the rudder head. Early models had these welded all the way around. They stopped welding the bottoms because it was weakening the material - and some breakages did occur. The rudder I broke was this earlier model. Other than that, ensure it's fully down or it will be overstressed (any rudder). Slight rearward movement at speed is what people mis-diagnose as weather helm...In any event, I carry the original under the aft berth and don't lose any sleep about rudder breakage! I'd also buy an Ida Sailor rudder in a heartbeat. Their customer service is the best I've ever encountered. - and their product "performs as advertised".Mr Bill is not kidding about how the boat handles without a rudder.We had to motor back 5 NM when ours broke (didn't have the original on board then - DUH!). Our motor can pivot in the well and it was a continual "back and forth" effort to make progress. Talk about blisters! Centerboard up/down didn't help either...Chris

 

[MrBill_FLL]

let my experiences be a warning to others!

like the old saying goes...."sometimes your purpose in life, is ment to be a warning to others!" LOL!Actually I read Chris's S breakage thread on the trailersailor board, and thats the main reason I put the stock one back aboard... (thanks chris!)(plus the poor towing / tracking without a rudder)I agree, I'd still recommend the IDA rudder. -or for the higher skilled, modifiy their stock rudder. it totally changed the boat... handles like a dingy. (fast and responsive).

 

[Abby Normal]

What's the Mod?

Mr. Bill where can a I find a photo of the mod on the stock rudder?Ever since our second weekend out, I've kept a delrin pin in mine, I found that the rudder slipped back too easy with the Rube Goldberg up/down-haul line that Mac supplied as stock- talk about a lot of weather helm!

 

[MrBill_FLL]

modding the stock rudder

heres one solution....http://www.macgregor-boats.com/stevev/stevev.htmlhttp://www.macgregor-boats.com/stevev/RudderProfile.jpgbasically extend the leading edge about 2-3".steveV quote:"Rudder Profile: This shows the rudder after the addition of 2" to the leading edge. This was done by ripping a U shaped slot in a piece of 2" x 5" x 50" mahogany. The slot was roughly shaped to match the leading edge of the rudder. It was glued in place with thickened West epoxy and then flaired with bondo to make a smooth transition to the rudder face. A new leading edge was shaped and then coated with tinted West's. Then the entire rudder was painted with monoepoxy deck paint and VC-17 antifouling paint."francios had some ideas on the trailersailor board ... tacking some ss screen to the front and adding fiberglass.theres a few other rudder mods out there, macgregor webring, and the macgregor-boats site...but the ida rudder is really nice... and I'll bet cheaper if you paid yourself for the time it takes to do the rudder mods.even better link:http://www.macgregor-boats.com/mods/mods.html

 

[MrBill_FLL]

more rudder mods

Now, thats a beauty! LoLhttp://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/macgregor/index.cgi/read/31252

 

[Abby Normal]

Thanks

Thanks for the links. Looks like more time involved than I care for. I still have a concern as to the durability of HDPE after being exposed to UV rays or do you think that even had anything to do with the failure? If I understand correctly, you said you were not using a lock pin for the rudder?I keep my M-25 in a slip, so I'm wondering after installing the Ida rudder if I should keep the rudder raised and covered with Sunbrella when the boat is sitting idle in the slip?

 

[Tom]

Star Board

If I understand correctly, Starboard is HDPE with a UV inhibitor added, (a similar product is called Sea board, I think) dont know for sure if Ida uses Starboard or Seaboard or just plain HDPE.