Peggy – I’m not waiting to see if your book winds up in my stocking (as requested), ‘cause my frustration level is far too high! Our boat has a lingering holding tank odor which is quite strong when the vee-berth is opened up (obviously, ‘cause that’s where the tank and overboard pump are located). Over the past months I’ve replaced all sanitation hose and vent hose; made sure the vent is clear; removed the tee connection in the vent line and sealed one tank vent outlet; super-flushed the holding tank; super-cleaned the bilge; hosed down the inner hull under the vee-berth and aired it dry; sprayed the inner hull with a Clorox solution and aired it out; sprayed the inner hull twice with KO and aired it out; pumped KO to the tank per instructions; pumped vinegar to the tank; pumped the KO solution from the tank through the overboard pump (gusher-type); kept the tank empty; used only fresh water for all flushing; and there is STILL a strong odor coming from under the vee-berth. There is no evidence that the holding tank leaks, no wet spots on the inner hull even with a near-full tank and heeled over. Leaving the boat to sit for a week or more allows the smell to get into the cabin – when we’re on board and air it out it isn’t so bad. But not good, either. Of course, opening up the area under the vee-berth and sticking my face down there is still a non-habit-forming experience. As far as I can tell, the only thing I haven’t done is replace the holding tank!!! (I’m afraid that when your book arrives in my stocking, it’ll have a short disclaimer telling me to sell my boat!) HELP!! Michael O’
- Status
The tank isn't the culprit...
Unless the tank is leaking--and you've determined that it's not--there's no way odor inside the boat can be coming from inside the tank...the only place odor inside the tank has to go is out the vent. So continuing to try to eliminate the odor in your v-berth by doing things to the tank is a waste of time and effort. If you've replace all the hoses and done all that cleaning, and still have odor in that area, there's only one possible explanation: trapped water somewhere that you haven't found. Have you stuck your nose in the chain locker to see what it smells like? 'Cuz if it's not draining, that could very well be the source. Is there a shower sump in that area? A dirty sump can smell like a sewer. You've all but sterilized the inner liner...what's between it and the hull? I'm betting water is getting under it that's been stagnating and fermenting for years. Where in SoCal are you? I ask because I'm coming to San Diego the week of Jan 5 to do a consulting project for J-Boat. I'm scheduled to come home on Friday the 9th, but haven't made my plane reservation yet...so could stay over to take a look at your boat (and go sailing?) if you're near there.
Unless the tank is leaking--and you've determined that it's not--there's no way odor inside the boat can be coming from inside the tank...the only place odor inside the tank has to go is out the vent. So continuing to try to eliminate the odor in your v-berth by doing things to the tank is a waste of time and effort. If you've replace all the hoses and done all that cleaning, and still have odor in that area, there's only one possible explanation: trapped water somewhere that you haven't found. Have you stuck your nose in the chain locker to see what it smells like? 'Cuz if it's not draining, that could very well be the source. Is there a shower sump in that area? A dirty sump can smell like a sewer. You've all but sterilized the inner liner...what's between it and the hull? I'm betting water is getting under it that's been stagnating and fermenting for years. Where in SoCal are you? I ask because I'm coming to San Diego the week of Jan 5 to do a consulting project for J-Boat. I'm scheduled to come home on Friday the 9th, but haven't made my plane reservation yet...so could stay over to take a look at your boat (and go sailing?) if you're near there.
Sailing?!?!?! What a unique idea!!!
Wow, I've spent so much time on maintenance, it hasn't occurred to me to go sailing! The boat, an O'Day 34, is in San Diego at Harbor Island West Marina. But I'm in Park City, Utah (snow/ski country), and only get out there about once a month - and we've already booked flights for a trip January 9th-11th for the boatshow. (Why aren't you presenting a seminar?) As for your suggestion: The inner part of the hull under the vee-berth is just that, hull and no liner. Solid fiberglass! As for the shower sump, it drains to the bilge and putting my nose over the shower sump or the bilge gets no odor at all. It really is odd, Peggy - the only place I get the odor is under the vee-berth. Well, the odor "seeps" into the hanging locker and storage drawers which are connected to the vee-berth by the passages for sanitation discharge hose. But that's it..... The chain locker is on deck and not connected to the forepeak (like in my old Pearson), and it does indeed drain properly. I was so frustrated Saturday that I thought of visiting the local broker to put the boat on the market! I'm really left with only one idea, doing a serious purge of the under-vee-berth, maybe a strong oxidizing agent and lots of forced air? Is it possible that water is trapped UNDER the holding tank? I think the tank is supported by a wood box structure. Hmmmmm...... Sure wish I could be around for your visit! What an offer - Peggy Hall personally sniffing out the odor-culprit! I could take pics and everything! If you stay over for Saturday, we're planning on the Boat Show Saturday morning and sailing in the afternoon..... or I suppose we could do the Boat Show on Sunday instead and make Saturday "Peggy Hall Day"? Hey! This might work! Michael O'
Wow, I've spent so much time on maintenance, it hasn't occurred to me to go sailing! The boat, an O'Day 34, is in San Diego at Harbor Island West Marina. But I'm in Park City, Utah (snow/ski country), and only get out there about once a month - and we've already booked flights for a trip January 9th-11th for the boatshow. (Why aren't you presenting a seminar?) As for your suggestion: The inner part of the hull under the vee-berth is just that, hull and no liner. Solid fiberglass! As for the shower sump, it drains to the bilge and putting my nose over the shower sump or the bilge gets no odor at all. It really is odd, Peggy - the only place I get the odor is under the vee-berth. Well, the odor "seeps" into the hanging locker and storage drawers which are connected to the vee-berth by the passages for sanitation discharge hose. But that's it..... The chain locker is on deck and not connected to the forepeak (like in my old Pearson), and it does indeed drain properly. I was so frustrated Saturday that I thought of visiting the local broker to put the boat on the market! I'm really left with only one idea, doing a serious purge of the under-vee-berth, maybe a strong oxidizing agent and lots of forced air? Is it possible that water is trapped UNDER the holding tank? I think the tank is supported by a wood box structure. Hmmmmm...... Sure wish I could be around for your visit! What an offer - Peggy Hall personally sniffing out the odor-culprit! I could take pics and everything! If you stay over for Saturday, we're planning on the Boat Show Saturday morning and sailing in the afternoon..... or I suppose we could do the Boat Show on Sunday instead and make Saturday "Peggy Hall Day"? Hey! This might work! Michael O'
Saturday would certainly work for me!
I could fly home on Sunday. Let's swap some email to see if we can put this together!
Meawhile, I think your idea of a serious purge--but without the oxidizer--is a good one.
I could fly home on Sunday. Let's swap some email to see if we can put this together!
Meawhile, I think your idea of a serious purge--but without the oxidizer--is a good one.Deja Vu?
Michael I have an O35, which is essentially the same as your boat, and have had a very similar experience. (I have not power washed under the V berth yet, but that is planned for early spring.) Replaced the hoses, removed the T connected vent, reconfigured the system to shorten the run from head to tank, KO applied in locker and V berth, etc.) Was able to reduce the smell by about 90 - 95 percent, but still have the lingering odor under the V berth and in the hanging locker and drawers. Not sure what else to do either, so if you and Peggy come up with more ideas/solutions, keep up posted. Ed. Ryan
Michael I have an O35, which is essentially the same as your boat, and have had a very similar experience. (I have not power washed under the V berth yet, but that is planned for early spring.) Replaced the hoses, removed the T connected vent, reconfigured the system to shorten the run from head to tank, KO applied in locker and V berth, etc.) Was able to reduce the smell by about 90 - 95 percent, but still have the lingering odor under the V berth and in the hanging locker and drawers. Not sure what else to do either, so if you and Peggy come up with more ideas/solutions, keep up posted. Ed. Ryan
Will do, Ed!
I KO'd the hanging locker also, 'cause it smelled and 'cause it appeared that the hull vent connection had leaked (ugh!) somewhat and stained the material on the hull. I've reduced the odor significantly, but I'm a bit meticulous and don't think we should live with ANY odor! What's interesting about the O'Day 34/35 setup is that the odor travels from under the vee-berth into the drawer area and on through to the locker. All via the access holes for the hose run. So your clothes get a fine aroma..... I'll certainly let you know what does (and doesn't) work! BTW, are you signed up on the O'Day 34/35 website on Yahoo? You might be able to get more help there, though I haven't asked that forum about the odor problems yet. I did get some incredible photo's of the top of the mast, though! I've got to re-mount the boom topping lift and needed an idea of how it was attached before ascending aloft. More later when I'm smarter! Michael O'
I KO'd the hanging locker also, 'cause it smelled and 'cause it appeared that the hull vent connection had leaked (ugh!) somewhat and stained the material on the hull. I've reduced the odor significantly, but I'm a bit meticulous and don't think we should live with ANY odor! What's interesting about the O'Day 34/35 setup is that the odor travels from under the vee-berth into the drawer area and on through to the locker. All via the access holes for the hose run. So your clothes get a fine aroma..... I'll certainly let you know what does (and doesn't) work! BTW, are you signed up on the O'Day 34/35 website on Yahoo? You might be able to get more help there, though I haven't asked that forum about the odor problems yet. I did get some incredible photo's of the top of the mast, though! I've got to re-mount the boom topping lift and needed an idea of how it was attached before ascending aloft. More later when I'm smarter! Michael O'
Smelly Boat
I had a 35' Hunter that smelled. I did all of the required "destinking" procedures. The source of the odor was solved but the lingering odors were comming from the surfaces that had absorbed the previous odors. Wood, fabric, bedding, lines, and everything in the lazarette near the tank had absorbed the stink. I had to take everything out that could be removed and air it out off the boat. I left this stuff in the garage for the winter. I bought a new mattress,new towels, and new bedding. I soaked the lines in Downy Fabric softner to kill the smell and soften them up. I also bought an ionizer and that killed the residual odors left behind. I now have a 38' Hunter and will not let the stink get a chance to ruin my boat. I follow rigerous cleaning procedures and maintainence to keep ahead of it before it takes over.
I had a 35' Hunter that smelled. I did all of the required "destinking" procedures. The source of the odor was solved but the lingering odors were comming from the surfaces that had absorbed the previous odors. Wood, fabric, bedding, lines, and everything in the lazarette near the tank had absorbed the stink. I had to take everything out that could be removed and air it out off the boat. I left this stuff in the garage for the winter. I bought a new mattress,new towels, and new bedding. I soaked the lines in Downy Fabric softner to kill the smell and soften them up. I also bought an ionizer and that killed the residual odors left behind. I now have a 38' Hunter and will not let the stink get a chance to ruin my boat. I follow rigerous cleaning procedures and maintainence to keep ahead of it before it takes over.
Smell is gone!
I had exactly the same problem, you discribed, on my C-380, except that my holding tank is under the satee, on the starboard side, exagerating the problem even more! Yhe solution... I bought a "Surround Air" Model XJ3000C, fresh air machine. (http://www.surroundair.com) I leave it running when we are off the boat. After the 1st use, 100% of the oder was gone! It also solves any mildew problems, you may have, as well. It fixed the problem so well, that I also bought one for my home, now it is always 100% oder free as well! Andrew Mattingly andym0097@aol.com
I had exactly the same problem, you discribed, on my C-380, except that my holding tank is under the satee, on the starboard side, exagerating the problem even more! Yhe solution... I bought a "Surround Air" Model XJ3000C, fresh air machine. (http://www.surroundair.com) I leave it running when we are off the boat. After the 1st use, 100% of the oder was gone! It also solves any mildew problems, you may have, as well. It fixed the problem so well, that I also bought one for my home, now it is always 100% oder free as well! Andrew Mattingly andym0097@aol.com
I hate to rain on your parade Andrew...but ...
According to the website, that device generates ozone. Ozone in any concentration strong enough to do any good is not only a health hazard, it's also HIGHLY corrosive and destructive rubber, neoprene and flexible PVC—in other words, every seal, valve and hose on a boat. According to the EPA, “Available scientific evidence shows that, at concentrations that do not exceed public health standards, ozone is generally ineffective in controlling indoor air pollution. The concentration of ozone would have to greatly exceed health standards to be effective in removing most indoor air contaminants. In the process of reacting with chemicals indoors, ozone can produce other chemicals that can be irritating and corrosive.” As for how well the portable ozone generators/ionizers work when it comes to getting rid of odors… yes, people who’ve bought them rave do about how well they work. And, yes, the manufacturers do assure you that the ozone concentration is well below that which can present any health hazard. But if that's true, they can't deliver enough ozone to destroy the sources of any odors. If they did deliver enough ozone to destroy the sources of odors, it should only be necessary to run one occasionally. But among all the people you know who’ve bought ozone generators, have you ever met anyone who has one who's ever been able to turn if off without having odors return? That should be enough to tell you that ozone generators are only very expensive air fresheners/cleaners, because they don't deliver enough ozone to be anything else-to actually kill the critters that are producing the odor, but do produce enough to damage systems on your boat. Save your money and get rid of the SOURCES of your odors. Eliminating the source is the only thing that really works.
According to the website, that device generates ozone. Ozone in any concentration strong enough to do any good is not only a health hazard, it's also HIGHLY corrosive and destructive rubber, neoprene and flexible PVC—in other words, every seal, valve and hose on a boat. According to the EPA, “Available scientific evidence shows that, at concentrations that do not exceed public health standards, ozone is generally ineffective in controlling indoor air pollution. The concentration of ozone would have to greatly exceed health standards to be effective in removing most indoor air contaminants. In the process of reacting with chemicals indoors, ozone can produce other chemicals that can be irritating and corrosive.” As for how well the portable ozone generators/ionizers work when it comes to getting rid of odors… yes, people who’ve bought them rave do about how well they work. And, yes, the manufacturers do assure you that the ozone concentration is well below that which can present any health hazard. But if that's true, they can't deliver enough ozone to destroy the sources of any odors. If they did deliver enough ozone to destroy the sources of odors, it should only be necessary to run one occasionally. But among all the people you know who’ve bought ozone generators, have you ever met anyone who has one who's ever been able to turn if off without having odors return? That should be enough to tell you that ozone generators are only very expensive air fresheners/cleaners, because they don't deliver enough ozone to be anything else-to actually kill the critters that are producing the odor, but do produce enough to damage systems on your boat. Save your money and get rid of the SOURCES of your odors. Eliminating the source is the only thing that really works.
Thank you "Ms Know it all"
I know what works!, and the smells have never come back, even when we have been on thew boat for several days, without running the air cleaner. Andy
I know what works!, and the smells have never come back, even when we have been on thew boat for several days, without running the air cleaner. Andy
Sorry Andy, she's right !
If you think the use of one of those air cleaners hasn't come up before then you are sadly mistaken. If it was such an easy solution then we all would be using them and to be sure it would be no secret.
If you think the use of one of those air cleaners hasn't come up before then you are sadly mistaken. If it was such an easy solution then we all would be using them and to be sure it would be no secret.
My Mother taught me to be polite
Peggy, I hope you know how much most of us value your knowledge and expertise. You are appreciated.
Peggy, I hope you know how much most of us value your knowledge and expertise. You are appreciated.
SMELLY HUNTERS.com
Hi Happy Hunterowners that have bo. I just got lucky with the h31, she doesn't have that bad feminine odor that I'm reading here on this site. In fact when I crack open her passage to down below I take a good wiff of her and,ummmm she smells good to me,even down to her "soul". We're talkin'a boat built in 84,third owner,she's been around,but well loved by her previous lovers.She's my new wife and she don't stink. Lucky new owner, Coyote-Craig in Redondo,be lookin'for you guys anywhere between P.V. and Malibu real soon,she's gettin'a makeover in the yard as I write this Love story.
Hi Happy Hunterowners that have bo. I just got lucky with the h31, she doesn't have that bad feminine odor that I'm reading here on this site. In fact when I crack open her passage to down below I take a good wiff of her and,ummmm she smells good to me,even down to her "soul". We're talkin'a boat built in 84,third owner,she's been around,but well loved by her previous lovers.She's my new wife and she don't stink. Lucky new owner, Coyote-Craig in Redondo,be lookin'for you guys anywhere between P.V. and Malibu real soon,she's gettin'a makeover in the yard as I write this Love story.
2 Stupid Suggestions
I've got a couple of stupid suggestions that I offer only because you have so thouroghly eliminated the most likely culprits. Borrow one of those flexible video devices and thouroughly explore every nook and cranny in the bow between the liner and the hull. If a critter crawled in there and died, no amount of sanitization will cure the smell until it is completely dessicated and any moisure will revive it (the smell, not the critter). Replace the diaphragm of your gusher pump. If it is permeated with odiferous chemicals, it may just be enough to stink up the area after being closed up for a couple of days. It can't hurt to replace it as preventative mainenance anyway. Regards,
I've got a couple of stupid suggestions that I offer only because you have so thouroghly eliminated the most likely culprits. Borrow one of those flexible video devices and thouroughly explore every nook and cranny in the bow between the liner and the hull. If a critter crawled in there and died, no amount of sanitization will cure the smell until it is completely dessicated and any moisure will revive it (the smell, not the critter). Replace the diaphragm of your gusher pump. If it is permeated with odiferous chemicals, it may just be enough to stink up the area after being closed up for a couple of days. It can't hurt to replace it as preventative mainenance anyway. Regards,
Like the gusher pump idea, Chris
Last weekend I realized that I had purged everything in site.... except the gusher pump and its associated hose! So I spent a while getting that done and don't really know yet if it will cure the problem or just contribute to the eventual cure. I wasn't smelling any odor directly off the pump, but then I didn't press my nose against it! ;-) Your idea of replacing the diaphragm seems to be a good one! As for your other idea - not stupid by any means, but not applicable nonetheless. No hull liner, just solid fiberglass. And the hose runs are all clear, 'cause I checked. One more thing I'm gonna' check is the wood box the tank is strapped to - maybe it's got a "surprise" inside? Michael O'
Last weekend I realized that I had purged everything in site.... except the gusher pump and its associated hose! So I spent a while getting that done and don't really know yet if it will cure the problem or just contribute to the eventual cure. I wasn't smelling any odor directly off the pump, but then I didn't press my nose against it! ;-) Your idea of replacing the diaphragm seems to be a good one! As for your other idea - not stupid by any means, but not applicable nonetheless. No hull liner, just solid fiberglass. And the hose runs are all clear, 'cause I checked. One more thing I'm gonna' check is the wood box the tank is strapped to - maybe it's got a "surprise" inside? Michael O'
Whale pump and Y valves an odor source?
I didn't think that replacing/refurbishing the Y valves and/or the whale pump in the sanitation system was needed, although that certainly is a possibility. (I'd be interested in hearing Peggy's take on this, whether or not those items are a potential source of odor.) Regarding the wooden "box" that the holding tank is strapped to, mine appears to be attached to the hull and the joints sealed so that moisture could not get into or under it. Maybe I shouldn't have assumed this - will be interested in what you find. Regarding Yahoo group for O'Day 34/35, I have not spent any time there. I have found this group at sailboatowners.com to be friendly and knowledgable, and I also am a member of the O'Day email group on Sailnet.net. If you have a Universal M25-XP, you might also see what the Catalina 34 site has to offer, since they have the same engine and also some useful information exchanges and reference material.
I didn't think that replacing/refurbishing the Y valves and/or the whale pump in the sanitation system was needed, although that certainly is a possibility. (I'd be interested in hearing Peggy's take on this, whether or not those items are a potential source of odor.) Regarding the wooden "box" that the holding tank is strapped to, mine appears to be attached to the hull and the joints sealed so that moisture could not get into or under it. Maybe I shouldn't have assumed this - will be interested in what you find. Regarding Yahoo group for O'Day 34/35, I have not spent any time there. I have found this group at sailboatowners.com to be friendly and knowledgable, and I also am a member of the O'Day email group on Sailnet.net. If you have a Universal M25-XP, you might also see what the Catalina 34 site has to offer, since they have the same engine and also some useful information exchanges and reference material.
- Status