Dog question
- Thread starter Jim
- Start date
Any mets?
Mets = metastasis or spread of the cancer to other parts of the body. Bone cancer is very prone to spread, and good quality X-rays of the lungs (where bone cancer is most likely to spread) are absolutely necessary before amputation. Assuming there is no evidence, I personally would not hesitate. There are lots of cases in which the dogs cruise around happy as, well, dogs for years on 3 legs. One of my colleagues has a black Lab that has been "dead" for over 5 years (i.e., given 6 months to live nearly 6 years ago). Spanky is pretty happy.
There are numerous ongoing clinical trials of different therapeutics going on, due in large part to the fact that dog cancer is VERY similar to human cancer, and the NIH National Cancer Institute has a robust program of research using clinical cases of dog cancer to help develop better human treatments. Contact the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine (www.acvim.org), which is the umbrella organization that contains veterinary cancer specialists. They can point you to the nearest appropriate center conducting the trials.
Good luck.
Mets = metastasis or spread of the cancer to other parts of the body. Bone cancer is very prone to spread, and good quality X-rays of the lungs (where bone cancer is most likely to spread) are absolutely necessary before amputation. Assuming there is no evidence, I personally would not hesitate. There are lots of cases in which the dogs cruise around happy as, well, dogs for years on 3 legs. One of my colleagues has a black Lab that has been "dead" for over 5 years (i.e., given 6 months to live nearly 6 years ago). Spanky is pretty happy.
There are numerous ongoing clinical trials of different therapeutics going on, due in large part to the fact that dog cancer is VERY similar to human cancer, and the NIH National Cancer Institute has a robust program of research using clinical cases of dog cancer to help develop better human treatments. Contact the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine (www.acvim.org), which is the umbrella organization that contains veterinary cancer specialists. They can point you to the nearest appropriate center conducting the trials.
Good luck.
My Dog Throat Cancer
My last dog developed throat cancer when she was about 10 years old. A lab/chow mix with a great personality. I searched the internet and it seems that she was expected to live about a year with ot without treatment. We did nothing until she stopped eating and then took her to th evet to be euthanized. It was very sad. But she got weaker and weaker but did not seem to be in pain. I treated her as I would like to have been treated. If the outlook for a cure would have been better we would have had her treated. If she had seemed to be in pain we would have euthanized her sooner. Her last days she just kind of lay around. On her last walk with us she could not cross logs or rocks on her own so I carried her as needed. She seemed to really enjoy the walk even in her weakened state. She was with her family her pack and everyone was very loving to her. She died about a month later. I do not see any reason to put any creature through needless suffering. Bone cancer is said to be very painfull.
My last dog developed throat cancer when she was about 10 years old. A lab/chow mix with a great personality. I searched the internet and it seems that she was expected to live about a year with ot without treatment. We did nothing until she stopped eating and then took her to th evet to be euthanized. It was very sad. But she got weaker and weaker but did not seem to be in pain. I treated her as I would like to have been treated. If the outlook for a cure would have been better we would have had her treated. If she had seemed to be in pain we would have euthanized her sooner. Her last days she just kind of lay around. On her last walk with us she could not cross logs or rocks on her own so I carried her as needed. She seemed to really enjoy the walk even in her weakened state. She was with her family her pack and everyone was very loving to her. She died about a month later. I do not see any reason to put any creature through needless suffering. Bone cancer is said to be very painfull.
Moon, the operative word is "needless"
whether it is human or animal. Needless as in "we're doing stuff without a reasonable expectation of a positive outcome". In your case, throat cancer is pretty resistant to treatment, or more correctly, there is little published evidence of successful approaches. Faced with that, I would do as you did. In the case of localized bone cancer, amputation is considered about 90% curative (the other 10% being metastasis that was too early to detect), and the dogs are amazingly adaptable. Losing a hind leg is slightly better than a foreleg since less weight is carried on the hind end, but either is very common. There is some work being done on constructing prosthetics as well, merging the veterinary field with DoD's massive program of prosthetic research. In order to construct a dog prosthetic, the human prosthetic scientists are forced to reexamine their conventional thinking, and in doing so, have made some interesting advances in human prosthetic design. Intellectually, it is also a morale-booster to watch a dog wearing your prosthetic chase a ball down a hallway.
whether it is human or animal. Needless as in "we're doing stuff without a reasonable expectation of a positive outcome". In your case, throat cancer is pretty resistant to treatment, or more correctly, there is little published evidence of successful approaches. Faced with that, I would do as you did. In the case of localized bone cancer, amputation is considered about 90% curative (the other 10% being metastasis that was too early to detect), and the dogs are amazingly adaptable. Losing a hind leg is slightly better than a foreleg since less weight is carried on the hind end, but either is very common. There is some work being done on constructing prosthetics as well, merging the veterinary field with DoD's massive program of prosthetic research. In order to construct a dog prosthetic, the human prosthetic scientists are forced to reexamine their conventional thinking, and in doing so, have made some interesting advances in human prosthetic design. Intellectually, it is also a morale-booster to watch a dog wearing your prosthetic chase a ball down a hallway.
Not an easy choice either way...
Been there done that. My thoughts are with you either way, not an easy decision.
Yes, I have known many 3 legged dogs, the get around very well for the most part. The previous advise is good advise, if the cancer has spread, the amputation will have been for nothing.
Quality of life is what's it's about. I truly understand what you're going through.
Been there done that. My thoughts are with you either way, not an easy decision.
Yes, I have known many 3 legged dogs, the get around very well for the most part. The previous advise is good advise, if the cancer has spread, the amputation will have been for nothing.
Quality of life is what's it's about. I truly understand what you're going through.
Had a terminal dog too
Even treatment is no promise of success..... We spent 600 plus dollars in an attempt to save our lab, and she only got to come home after for a short time.... The ultimate decision has to be yours, but there is some satisfaction in knowing you did all you could.......... It is a hard one to deal with..................
Even treatment is no promise of success..... We spent 600 plus dollars in an attempt to save our lab, and she only got to come home after for a short time.... The ultimate decision has to be yours, but there is some satisfaction in knowing you did all you could.......... It is a hard one to deal with..................
How old is she?
That would play a part in my decision process. I have a lab. She's 17 and having a tough time of it now. Having to pick up her poop from various uncontrolled deposits (amazing what we will do for dogs...very few, if any, humans who's poop I would pick up!) She got hit by a car when about 5. Spent over 2,000 to save her. BEST money I have EVER spent.
That would play a part in my decision process. I have a lab. She's 17 and having a tough time of it now. Having to pick up her poop from various uncontrolled deposits (amazing what we will do for dogs...very few, if any, humans who's poop I would pick up!) She got hit by a car when about 5. Spent over 2,000 to save her. BEST money I have EVER spent.
Dogs are lucky enough to be mostly in the moment...
bet she would still hop right on over to ya with a big smile. [Obviously] A Very hard decision though. Mike seems to have some good info to help. Sorry for your situation...
bet she would still hop right on over to ya with a big smile. [Obviously] A Very hard decision though. Mike seems to have some good info to help. Sorry for your situation...
9.5 yr used to be old for a large breed dog
Not so much anymore. If, with the exception of the tumor, she's healthy, then life expectancy is still measured in years, and recovery from the surgery is measured in weeks.
Of course, you know that you can bounce things off of this group anytime.
Not so much anymore. If, with the exception of the tumor, she's healthy, then life expectancy is still measured in years, and recovery from the surgery is measured in weeks.
Of course, you know that you can bounce things off of this group anytime.
Yep with my dog that had the throat cancer
Panzy was hit by a car when she was about a year old. We took her to a vet . Nothing broken but the vet doubt that she would survive due to internal injuries and he offered to put her to sleep. Then I decided to give her a chance. I took her home and kept her warm. For the first week I felt awful as she was obviously in great pain and could hardly move. A couple of times I almost took her in to be put to sleep. But gradually every day she got better. After about a month she acted as if she had never been hit by a car!!!! It was so hard watching her in such pain. We gave her aspirin which helped a lot. In retrospect maybe I could have done more for her pain. But we were having financial troubles at the time and I honestly did not have hundreds of dollars to spend on a dog. With 4 kids needing lots of stuff money was very tight. Anyway it ended well with her complete recovery and she lived several more years. I still miss her as she was an exceptionally good dog. She loved to catch and eat rabbits!!!! She also caught squirrels but would not eat them. She was very friendly to people that visited but was a good watchdog that knew when people were around that were not supposed to be there. She also caught a few ground hogs. She was so fast that a ground hog caught out away from it's hole did not have a chance. But she left our cat alone. At first she wanted to kill the cat. But once I told her no a couple of times she completely ignored the cat.
Panzy was hit by a car when she was about a year old. We took her to a vet . Nothing broken but the vet doubt that she would survive due to internal injuries and he offered to put her to sleep. Then I decided to give her a chance. I took her home and kept her warm. For the first week I felt awful as she was obviously in great pain and could hardly move. A couple of times I almost took her in to be put to sleep. But gradually every day she got better. After about a month she acted as if she had never been hit by a car!!!! It was so hard watching her in such pain. We gave her aspirin which helped a lot. In retrospect maybe I could have done more for her pain. But we were having financial troubles at the time and I honestly did not have hundreds of dollars to spend on a dog. With 4 kids needing lots of stuff money was very tight. Anyway it ended well with her complete recovery and she lived several more years. I still miss her as she was an exceptionally good dog. She loved to catch and eat rabbits!!!! She also caught squirrels but would not eat them. She was very friendly to people that visited but was a good watchdog that knew when people were around that were not supposed to be there. She also caught a few ground hogs. She was so fast that a ground hog caught out away from it's hole did not have a chance. But she left our cat alone. At first she wanted to kill the cat. But once I told her no a couple of times she completely ignored the cat.
Jim, Have a friend drop her off at the vet
labs can hold a grudge. My female lab gave me the angry eyes (and then lick her stiches) for a few weeks after I had her fixed. If I had a 'do over' I would have a friend take her.
A friends choc lab lost the use of her back legs. He considered putting her down but opted to battle it out. She had a couple accidents in the house at first. It took her some time to train Paul (owner) to come on command. Paul would lift her hind legs up and walk with her outside for her to relieve herself. She loved all the attention and would occasionally call Paul over just for the hell of it. LOL! Paul had no choice but to go through the potty routine as he didn't want a mess in the house... funny girl.
She lived for 6 mos... Paul had no regrets.
labs can hold a grudge. My female lab gave me the angry eyes (and then lick her stiches) for a few weeks after I had her fixed. If I had a 'do over' I would have a friend take her.
A friends choc lab lost the use of her back legs. He considered putting her down but opted to battle it out. She had a couple accidents in the house at first. It took her some time to train Paul (owner) to come on command. Paul would lift her hind legs up and walk with her outside for her to relieve herself. She loved all the attention and would occasionally call Paul over just for the hell of it. LOL! Paul had no choice but to go through the potty routine as he didn't want a mess in the house... funny girl.
She lived for 6 mos... Paul had no regrets.
Understand what you're going through
We had a very sick 15 year old pug. She was dying of congestive heart failure and her suffering was tearing our hearts out.
Fortunately I have a friend who is a caring vet. She gave me two needles, one with a sedative and one with an fatal overdose. I gave our dog these injections in our home with a minimum of stress and discomfort to her. She went out in our arms and although we miss her greatly, I know we did the right thing for her.
My best to you.
We had a very sick 15 year old pug. She was dying of congestive heart failure and her suffering was tearing our hearts out.
Fortunately I have a friend who is a caring vet. She gave me two needles, one with a sedative and one with an fatal overdose. I gave our dog these injections in our home with a minimum of stress and discomfort to her. She went out in our arms and although we miss her greatly, I know we did the right thing for her.
My best to you.
Since we're sharing stories
when he was just 6 month old, my Golden Retriever started acting a bit droopy. I took him to the vet school here and, after a few days of diagnostics, discovered that he had a systemic fungal infection, with organisms found in every organ system except the brain. They gave me the bad news, expecting me to take him home for a few days to say goodbye. I insisted on trying to treat him instead. Four months and a couple of close calls later (to the tune of just over $1000/month, so much for that year's vacation), he was cured. The shock to his system left him with a goofy haircoat, but 7 years later, he is still going strong. He seems to know that hunting season is coming, too. Our games of "fetch" outside have started to convert to "retrieve", in which he insists on sitting next to me at attention when I throw the dummy, and waits for me to say "bang" before running after it.
In my more melancholy moments, I find myself hoping that he will go quietly in his sleep. I'm certain that I couldn't do what Alan did.
when he was just 6 month old, my Golden Retriever started acting a bit droopy. I took him to the vet school here and, after a few days of diagnostics, discovered that he had a systemic fungal infection, with organisms found in every organ system except the brain. They gave me the bad news, expecting me to take him home for a few days to say goodbye. I insisted on trying to treat him instead. Four months and a couple of close calls later (to the tune of just over $1000/month, so much for that year's vacation), he was cured. The shock to his system left him with a goofy haircoat, but 7 years later, he is still going strong. He seems to know that hunting season is coming, too. Our games of "fetch" outside have started to convert to "retrieve", in which he insists on sitting next to me at attention when I throw the dummy, and waits for me to say "bang" before running after it.
In my more melancholy moments, I find myself hoping that he will go quietly in his sleep. I'm certain that I couldn't do what Alan did.
That must have been tough, Alan.
I have given a lot of shots to dogs (and other animals) but never to put one down. It must have been less traumatic for the dog that way.
The vets office is not usually considered a happy place by dogs and there is a bit of anxiety with any visit. In one case my vet came to my back yard and did the job while my dog was in his comfortable place. There was no pain and it was done with compassion and skill. Sedative first and then the lethal dose.
In the past I have usually erred on the side of keeping them around too long for their own good and probably will continue to do so in the future because it is so hard to let go. Dogs can be good at hiding their pain and we who love them can be blind to things we'd rather not see.
Jim, only you can make that decision and as long as you have only the dogs best interest in mind whatever you decide is what is right.
I have given a lot of shots to dogs (and other animals) but never to put one down. It must have been less traumatic for the dog that way.
The vets office is not usually considered a happy place by dogs and there is a bit of anxiety with any visit. In one case my vet came to my back yard and did the job while my dog was in his comfortable place. There was no pain and it was done with compassion and skill. Sedative first and then the lethal dose.
In the past I have usually erred on the side of keeping them around too long for their own good and probably will continue to do so in the future because it is so hard to let go. Dogs can be good at hiding their pain and we who love them can be blind to things we'd rather not see.
Jim, only you can make that decision and as long as you have only the dogs best interest in mind whatever you decide is what is right.
I wish you and Tasha well.
Several years ago one one of our cats was found to have a large tumor.
We had it removed. Biopsy showed it to be cancer. We gave her interferon daily. About a year later another tumor and surgery.
When the third tumor appeared we could tell from her actions that she was saying "I've had enough".
Having met later in life, we have no children. But we've always had pets. Currently have twelve cats.
So we've been through this time and again with various problems over the years.
Finding the "right time" sometimes isn't difficult. Convincing yourself of it though is exceedingly hard.
It always comes down to trying to discern what's best for them.
Tasha will show you when she's had enough. Meanwhile, enjoy your time with her.
And remember, while there's life, there's hope.
Several years ago one one of our cats was found to have a large tumor.
We had it removed. Biopsy showed it to be cancer. We gave her interferon daily. About a year later another tumor and surgery.
When the third tumor appeared we could tell from her actions that she was saying "I've had enough".
Having met later in life, we have no children. But we've always had pets. Currently have twelve cats.
So we've been through this time and again with various problems over the years.
Finding the "right time" sometimes isn't difficult. Convincing yourself of it though is exceedingly hard.
It always comes down to trying to discern what's best for them.
Tasha will show you when she's had enough. Meanwhile, enjoy your time with her.
And remember, while there's life, there's hope.