Does A Liferaft Still Make Sense? (or Cents?)

[robertsapp]

I read an article recently in which a USCG rescue pilot stated that the average time worldwide from activating an EPIRB until a helicopter is hovering overhead is 270 minutes. We're currently outfitting our boat for cruising the Caribbean, possibly beyond, and our budget isn't unlimited, so we have to carefully consider the value of gear we wish to purchase. A liferaft is probably one of the most expensive pieces of gear you can buy, even before you consider the lifecycle costs of continual recertification. Meanwhile the possibility of it seeing use is extremely low. Now we firmly believe that the most valuable thing we have on board is ourselves, but I'm reluctant to tie up five or six grand in a piece of gear that should never see use. Since we only plan to cruise in tropical or semi-tropical waters and hypothermia isn't really a concern, I think if we ever did need to abandon the boat, we could probably handle four and a half hours in the water. So it seems to me that for about a fifth to a quarter of the cost of a liferaft, we could invest in two really good offshore life jackets, a set of personal locator beacons, and a pair of rescue lasers. With the evolution of EPIRBs and AIS based personal locators and the current state of the international SAR system, does a liferaft make economic sense anymore?

 

[Kings Gambit]

What's in an average?

Not that I disagree with your statements about life rafts, but I don't think I'd base my decision on the "average helicopter time" you cited. Averages of that nature are largely meaningless if you do not know how they are weighted, i.e., frequency of near shore rescues versus offshore rescues, etc., or average proximity of helicopter pads to rescue sites, etc., or even rescue conditions--e.g., tropical storm or hurricane versus ideal. Also, if the water temp is lower than body temp, hypothermia is a concern, or should be, given enough time in the water. As I said, can't depend on 4 hr rescue; or even 4 days in some cases, likely.

 

[Bob McL]

On a fishing trip to the warmer waters of Mexico, I noticed a lack of life jackets on our boat. ANY life jacket. When I asked the captain he grabbed the binoculars and said, "Look". See the fins. You do not want the sharks to get you, if the boat sinks grab the anchor and go with it.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Anyone know what the average time is for a shark to eat your family?

 

[Brian S]

Don, are you having some problems with the wife?

Anyone know what the average time is for a shark to eat your family?

 

[Rick D]

Liferafts

Well, I think you'll see that a minority of boats out there carry life rafts. I do think they might be a EU requirement, at least all the ones of any size I saw in Italy had them. FWIW, I had friends who lost their Lapworth 36 on a mid-pacific reef and spent 26 days with their son drifting before rescue on an AVON dinghy 25 years ago. If you have a good size dink that will accommodate you and you keep a good ditch bag and have some basic provisions in the dink at all times, and leave it inflated, it might be an alternative. Of course, it's your call and hard for me to give a value advice on such a thing.

 

[mz4wheeler]

I'm reluctant to tie up five or six grand

I would be reluctant too. That is a pretty top-of-the price (assuming 4 person). I'd opt to go with a used one and get it re-certified. There seems to be plenty out there for sale. However, I would NOT go overseas without one and an EPIRB.

 

[Gunni]

It is all about risk management. Do you like to sail in the face of named storms, crossing remote oceans? You should have a liferaft. Are you an obsessive worrier, married to one, or crewed by one? Buy a liferaft. Do you plan to island hop, picking weather windows, and execute cautious cruising plans - spend your money on a nice set of davits, a RIB and train all crew members on the speedy deployment of the dink. Build a good ditch bag.

 

[Jackdaw]

It is all about risk management.

Exactly. Its all about cost and value based on your needs and program.

If they were free, everyone would have one. But they are not, so people make their own call, and that's fine. But I think its crazy to try and define this conversation in terms of 'if they still make sense'. That's ridiculous. Of course they still do.

 

[Johnb]

It is tough to spend a bunch of bucks on something you hope to never use, but we took a deep breath and have sprung for a life raft and recertification.

Many years ago I went out in a dinghy with my infant son, the conditions deteriorated and I went back to shore and dropped him off. I then headed out and capsized. Obviously I did not die, but the one thought that kept running through my mind was the danger I could have taken my kid into.

I can't think of anything worse than to be in a situation where you have let down someone who relies on you to do the right thing, especially a member of your family.

 

[Kings Gambit]

All of this was covered in a good thread last fall.

A bunch of us discussed this [life raft issue] at length in a thread from Nov. 2014 entitled "Plan to Save or to Abandon the Ship." You might find it relevant to your question/issue regarding life rafts.

http://forums.beneteau.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=165801&styleid=1

 

[Chris Patterson]

Half of the name of the thing is 'life'.....How much is yours and your families worth?..

 

[Benny17441]

I hear you. Conduct a thorough safety survey of the boat. Keel/hull integrity, standing rigging, thru-hull and hoses, Fire hazards, fuel and electrical systems and once you feel confident that if anything goes wrong it will not likely be because of the boat then make your decision. It is mostly a matter of perception; you get on an airplane and they tell you there is a lifejacket under the seat and you feel safe when flying over water even though you know that it is not likely to make a darn bit of good. If you are crossing over to the Bahamas and then following the chain of Islands down to the Eastern Caribbean it might be a measured risk that you may be taking with the odds largely on your favor. Get an inflatable dink instead.

 

[mz4wheeler]

I would be reluctant too. That is a pretty top-of-the price (assuming 4 person). I'd opt to go with a used one and get it re-certified. There seems to be plenty out there for sale. However, I would NOT go overseas without one and an EPIRB.

So, quoting myself [grin]... Here is an example of an affordable solution w/o forking out 5K for a life raft you may never use:

Used Avon life raft, circa 1998 ($250).

http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/bpo/5007204842.html

I called, and it will cost $300 to re-certify.

Total investment < $600.

If it passes certification, that's good enough for me. Personally, I'd opt for a newer model, but certainly you can keep the costs to ~ $1000, which seems reasonable.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Don, are you having some problems with the wife?

Not that I know of.

I was trying the socratic method to convey the message that cost and value are often mutually exclusive or as someone else put it, how much is a life worth.

 

[Kings Gambit]

So it seems to me that for about a fifth to a quarter of the cost of a liferaft, we could invest in two really good offshore life jackets, a set of personal locator beacons, and a pair of rescue lasers. With the evolution of EPIRBs and AIS based personal locators and the current state of the international SAR system, does a liferaft make economic sense anymore?

A second time reading this is kind of disheartening. This fellow is asking whether he should invest in equipment that can be immediately applied to life saving on one's own volition, or in different equipment that depends on a swift rescue by others [at public expense]. Is this where we are now? "My wife and I can survive 4 hr in the water until you come fetch me. I'm planning my cruising agenda based on that premise?"

 

[Johnb]

Anyone is entitled to think out loud and hear other opinions whilst formulating a decision.

To lighten this up a bit, I store the life raft below and wonder if it could accidently inflate and split the boat open whilst trapping us in there.

 

[robertsapp]

Another issue is that I have read survival stories by people who said that although they had a liferaft onboard, it didn't do them any good, because by the time conditions deteriorated to the point where they felt they needed to abandon ship, the winds were so high it was impossible to inflate and deploy the raft (in one account I read, as soon as the raft inflated the wind tore it loose and it blew away) or the seas were too high to swim to the raft and board it if it could have been deployed. It was basically only potentially useful in a situation like hitting a submerged container on a calm day.

 

[robertsapp]

A second time reading this is kind of disheartening. This fellow is asking whether he should invest in equipment that can be immediately applied to life saving on one's own volition, or in different equipment that depends on a swift rescue by others [at public expense]. Is this where we are now? "My wife and I can survive 4 hr in the water until you come fetch me. I'm planning my cruising agenda based on that premise?"

Vice rowing the liferaft to shore to save anyone the trouble of having to come get me? Because when you trip that EPIRB, they're going to scramble the SAR team regardless of whether you're in a raft or you are the raft (e.g. wearing a good offshore life jacket). So I'm not really seeing where it makes any difference at their end. Unless you're saying I should forego tripping the emergency radio because I'd have a raft?

 

[Bill Roosa]

Will you need it? Several books I've read indicate that given a competent captain and some knowledge of weather and a boat that is not REALLY slow you should be able to survive a cruse around the world without encountering ANY heavy weather. The author I remember said that in 5 years of sailing they only hit 2 storms with over 40 knot winds.
Sooo I'm thinking that the weather related emergency is pretty much avoidable.
The mechanical related emergency or collision would also seem to be mostly avoidable with a good maintenance routine and keeping a lookout.
I've also heard of lots of boats, de-masted and adrift with out crew. the Crew apparently did not "step up into the life raft" and abandoned ship only to perish in the life raft. Some of these adrift boats had apparently been adrift for many months!!!!