Documentation vs. Registration

Sumner · Mar 5, 2015

Ukeluthier said:
There can be some real "red tape" disadvantages to documentation that may lead you to forgo it if a bank doesn't require it........................
..............What a red tape nightmare! Every time I exchanged documentation with the Coast Guard, it took them two months to respond, and I could not sell the boat in the meantime. Finally -- after two full years of back and forth -- a lowly but sympathetic clerk at the Coast Guard documentation office diligently tracked down the required signatures, and I was issued a new, clear document.

Whew! I had just about given up hope.

Don't get yourself entangled with bureaucracy if you don't have to.

When we bought the Endeavour we paid to have the boat 'un-documented' and to have a Florida title put in place just in case something happened to us. It would be a lot easier for our heirs to sell the boat with a state registration vs. dealing with all of the documentation work that would be required,

Sumner

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Ron20324 · Mar 5, 2015

I meant to say earlier that when I bought the boat new, the dealer got the state #s since you never know how long the feds will take to do the document. If you buy the boat then apply for doc and you do not already have state #, you can not use the boat until you get one or the other.

Stu Jackson · Mar 5, 2015

If you're never going to sail the boat out of the country, why spend the extra $26 per year for it?

And even folks who sail from So. California to Mexico don't always document their boats. I'd guess it would be the same for the east coast, too.

In many cases that I know, they did it for the "prestige" of having their hailing port on the stern. Holy cow, Batman, what a stupid reason.

Because of the states wanting their "cut" of poor boaters money, states don't care about documentation anymore. Used to be if you were documented, you could avoid the state registrations. Not anymore in most cases. There was a thread on cruisersforum a while ago about a guy who bought a boat in California, immediately moved it to Washington State, but California came after him for years for registration and taxes because the hailing port was Beverley Hills!!! Shoulda been a hillbillie.

I'm glad to send in my $10 or $20 every two years for my state registration. Documentation unless you're going are offshore, makes little sense.

And now that they're charging that $26 per year, they HAVE NO WAY to provide MULTIPLE YEAR documentation!!! So if you sail off over the horizon, you still have to find a way to renew every single bloody year. How stupid. When they rolled out the yearly fee, the comment period included lots of reasonable replies requesting multiple year documentation. Of course, they didn't listen...

woodster · Mar 5, 2015

Stu Jackson said:
.

And now that they're charging that $26 per year, they HAVE NO WAY to provide MULTIPLE YEAR documentation!!! So if you sail off over the horizon, you still have to find a way to renew every single bloody year. How stupid. When they rolled out the yearly fee, the comment period included lots of reasonable replies requesting multiple year documentation. Of course, they didn't listen...

thats to make sure they know where you are every year ....this means you are now tethered for ever ...just another form of tracking you ....trust them......there are from the government... "they are here to help you" (out of more of your money)

Capt jgw · Mar 5, 2015

I wish the state registration was $10-20. In Michigan my 36 footer costs $240 for a three year term. They all expire on March 31st, and if you buy a boat before that date they count the remaining time as a year, meaning you only get two years of useable time instead of three. I just bought a new dinghy last week, but in waiting til April to register it so I'll get my three years worth. The dinghy costs $14 for three years. I hear some states charge based on value, which could run into thousands. Of course those "rich yachtsmen" can afford it.

Ron20324 · Mar 5, 2015

Stu Jackson said:
... In many cases that I know, they did it for the "prestige" of having their hailing port on the stern. Holy cow, Batman, what a stupid reason.... How stupid. /// When they rolled out the yearly fee, the comment period included lots of reasonable replies requesting multiple year documentation. Of course, they didn't listen...

Easy, Stu. Many/most boats have state #s, but also have a hailing port. Otherwise, people might think if you don't have a port, you're ashamed of it?

With the yearly tracking, they can keep a closer tabs to make sure they have the lastest info. How many people would overlook updating the doc if they didn't get reminded??? That's what makes the system work. Kind of like checking in with a parole officer every so often. So I'm told, that is.

Stu Jackson · Mar 5, 2015

Ron20324 said:
Kind of like checking in with a parole officer every so often. So I'm told, that is.

Heck, Ron, with a group like this, that's a perfect explanation. Not even an analogy, right? :cussing::cussing::cussing:

rardiH36 · Mar 5, 2015

Even though Documentation vs. State Registration has been covered many times over the years, this is a Great thread! :

Because of my "Documentation" date, I was unaware of the new fee for subsequent renewals.

I am just "speed reading" (as best as a mid 60's type can do) the great posts on this thread. So I might not be picking up on everything. But just another couple of observations for those residing in states that don't demand state registration (for now at least) as my federally documented boat in California:

- I don't need to affix the ugly registration numbers and annual renewal sticker on the bow of my boat. All that is required for a documented vessel is the name and port-of-call on the transom. And that the documentation# on a plaque be affixed in a permanent manner to a bulkhead somewhere inside the accommodation area and;
- I don't pay California's DMV any annual registration taxes or do I even need to ever file anything with them. (But my county does levy a property tax on the depreciated value of my boat ... no getting around that!)

Capt jgw · Mar 5, 2015

Some states don't require double registration and a few even forbid it. A friend of mine was taking his documented / Michigan registered boat south and got boarded by a sheriff in I think Virginia. The officer was going to arrest him and confiscate the boat because it was double registered. He didn't know or seen to care that registration is required in
Michigan regardless of documentation. It took several phone calls and a supervisor coming to the scene to sort it out. And my friend is a retired state trooper and still carries his old badge. I find it hard to believe they hadn't run into that before with all the boats traveling the ICW.

Ron20324 · Mar 5, 2015

rardiH36 said:
... And that the documentation# on a plaque be affixed in a permanent manner to a bulkhead somewhere inside the accommodation area ...

It must be posted on "some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull, affixed in a manner which would make alteration, removal or replacement obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area." (CG document letter)I took that to mean not on the exterior of the boat.

In a place, painted on, with several coats of epoxy is what I did. Being on a plaque is not a requirement. Though you can buy those plaques, in that form only they are just for decoration..

Charlie Jones s/v Tehani · Mar 5, 2015

"In many cases that I know, they did it for the "prestige" of having their hailing port on the stern. Holy cow, Batman, what a stupid reason."

absolutely nothing to prevent a state registered boat from putting the hailing port on the stern

M-Captain · Mar 5, 2015

CG didn't charge us the renewal fee this year. We were told it was because we renewed on time (early?). Regarding the benefits, I've heard it is better to have a CG documented boat when traveling between Canada and US but never heard a good reason why.

Ron20324 · Mar 5, 2015

Stu Jackson said:
Heck, Ron, with a group like this, that's a perfect explanation. Not even an analogy, right? :cussing::cussing::cussing:

Might be, but this is the sailboat forum, Stu,not the power boat. :naughty:

Capt jgw · Mar 6, 2015

My doc number is on a wood plaque mounted on the forward end of the coach roof, not very well made and kind of ugly. If I decide not to renew next year (got on just under the deadline this year), I'll want to remove it. There's no screws so it must be glued on. I just wonder of I can get it off without tearing up the fiberglass. Maybe its worth $26 a year to leave it there.

Sumner · Mar 6, 2015

I edited my earlier post above since I had made the comment that when we bought the Endeavour we un-documented the boat and had it registered with Florida. I should of said we got a Florida 'Title' for the boat. There is a difference as a documented boat can be registered to pay the yearly state taxes but the way I understood it a boat couldn't be documented and have a state 'title' at the same time, at least in Florida.

One of our stipulations on buying the boat was that we would end up with a title. Well that proved to not be easy or inexpensive but the broker ended up paying to have it done as the rookie salesman had promised that it would be done.

So if your boat is documented and with the new fees you are thinking about stopping the documentation you had better check what it is going to take to get a state title on the boat just in case that ends up being a road you don't want to go down,

Sumner

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links[/FONT]

Capt jgw · Mar 6, 2015

Title, I didn't think of that. Michigan is the same as Florida, documented boats don't get titles. That's worth the 26 bucks. Thanks

jlp0217 · Mar 6, 2015

Scott T-Bird said:
I don't buy it that all mortgaged boats will need documentation. Why is a title and registration not sufficient the same way any house or car is? I would guess that there are plenty of inland boats that are not documented, but financed just the same. Also, I would be surprised if there are any states which don't require registration for INLAND boats, even those that are documented. In New Jersey, a documented coastal boat does not require state registration (as far as I know - I may be wrong), but when you use it inland, it must be registered with the state and state numbers must be displayed even if it is documented (that much I do know).

But, I agree, that the rules for each state should be checked-out.

Coast Guard rules say state registration numbers cannot be displayed on a registered boat. Just the Tax sticker. Name and Home Port must be.