Documentation vs. Registration

[wflowe2]

What is the difference between the two? Are there benefits of one over the other. I know that on our lake, there are some boats that are documented and they don't seem to have to display State numbers and other boats, such as mine, that are registered and do have state id numbers.

 

[woodster]

on a coast guard registered boat you don't have to display the state numbers but you do have to display the state decal in some states and the boat name and home port..... on a state registered only boat you have to display both the state numbers and decal

 

[Scott T-Bird]

You're in landlocked Kansas, right? It surprises me that you don't have to register with the state if your boat is documented. I can't think of any reason for documentation in Kansas. It's basically a coastal thing to prove evidence of nationality.

The USCG page says that Documentation does not dismiss you from complying with state regulations. Your state may require registration but you may not have to show registration numbers.

My boat has a documentation number on the bulkhead, and when we bought her, she had no state registration numbers or decal. At the time I knew nothing about documentation and didn't care, either, since I had to register with the state. When we moved her inland, I was required to register and display numbers and the state decal.

Interestingly enough, I couldn't find any information about my boat by searching the registry with the numbers displayed on the bulkhead. I realized that my boat was moved from Texas at some time in the past so I tried searching with the two names and hailing ports that I was aware of and got nada.

I'm not sure how I'm going to address documentation when we move her to a coastal location. I wonder if anybody was supposed to cancel "documentation" or register the change of ownership. I didn't do it. I was never in contact with the previous owner so I don't know their history. For right now, it doesn't mean anything to me.

 

[McIntoshUSA]

When we bought our boat last April, It was explained to me that the main difference (other than not displaying the state #'s on the sides of the vessel, you do need the documented # displayed inside the vessel) if you plan to leave the US waters and pirates, etc take your boat then the USCG would assist you in getting it back.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Most states require registration regardless of whether you document it so there may be no $$$ saving. You still have to pay tax where applicable. The reason inshore boats are documented is typically because the owner has financed the boat and most lenders require documentation.

 

[Pat]

As I understand it from friends at our lake, in Kansas you are still required to pay state taxes whether
documented or not. In Kansas there is no requirement for a name or berth location, but I do believe there is to be some placard placed inside the vessel. So it must be registered with the state.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

To be documented, a vessel must measure 5 net tons or over. There is a formula to use which sets aside machinery and fuel space. It's based on cargo capacity. My 25 footer measures JUST under.

The CG has instituted a $26 year documentation renewal fee now. Some states don't require state registration on documented vessels, many do.

 

[uncledom]

What is the difference between the two? Are there benefits of one over the other. I know that on our lake, there are some boats that are documented and they don't seem to have to display State numbers and other boats, such as mine, that are registered and do have state id numbers.

Usually any mortgage company will force you to Document the vessel with the USCG. The USCG has requirements about having the documentation number permanently affixed to the hull somewhere so as to show signs of damage if removed, or something to that effect without directly quoting. You must display the name and hailing port but where you display it depends on wether the boat is documented as commercial or recreational. I believe that in states that also require state registration, and not all do, you may NOT put state registration numbers on the boat but if required, may display the registration sticker. You need to look up the USCG Documentation rules and your local registration rules.

 

[victorhoisington]

One of the key things about USCG documented boats is a clear title history. The process of documenting a boat provides clear and unambiguous title history and ownership for a boat. Many state registrations are nothing more than showing a bill of sale and can be done by anyone claiming the boat. The documented boat can be looked up on the coast guard website by the documentation no.

Regarding state registration, some states require registration of all boats regardless of documentation status others do not (colorado does not). Even with the new $26 fee it's cheaper than state registration. I do have to be careful since some of the inland lakes aren't fully aware of how uscg documentation works and so I get to educate them that state registration isn't needed when I'm documented. Usually no problem but the muscle inspections get to be interesting

Have fun,

Victor

 

[Scott T-Bird]

You guys speak from a coastal perspective ...

Usually any mortgage company will force you to Document the vessel with the USCG. The USCG has requirements about having the documentation number permanently affixed to the hull somewhere so as to show signs of damage if removed, or something to that effect without directly quoting. You must display the name and hailing port but where you display it depends on wether the boat is documented as commercial or recreational. I believe that in states that also require state registration, and not all do, you may NOT put state registration numbers on the boat but if required, may display the registration sticker. You need to look up the USCG Documentation rules and your local registration rules.

I don't buy it that all mortgaged boats will need documentation. Why is a title and registration not sufficient the same way any house or car is? I would guess that there are plenty of inland boats that are not documented, but financed just the same. Also, I would be surprised if there are any states which don't require registration for INLAND boats, even those that are documented. In New Jersey, a documented coastal boat does not require state registration (as far as I know - I may be wrong), but when you use it inland, it must be registered with the state and state numbers must be displayed even if it is documented (that much I do know).

But, I agree, that the rules for each state should be checked-out.

 

[Capt jgw]

You're in landlocked Kansas, right? It surprises me that you don't have to register with the state if your boat is documented. I can't think of any reason for documentation in Kansas. It's basically a coastal thing to prove evidence of nationality.

The USCG page says that Documentation does not dismiss you from complying with state regulations. Your state may require registration but you may not have to show registration numbers.

My boat has a documentation number on the bulkhead, and when we bought her, she had no state registration numbers or decal. At the time I knew nothing about documentation and didn't care, either, since I had to register with the state. When we moved her inland, I was required to register and display numbers and the state decal.

Interestingly enough, I couldn't find any information about my boat by searching the registry with the numbers displayed on the bulkhead. I realized that my boat was moved from Texas at some time in the past so I tried searching with the two names and hailing ports that I was aware of and got nada.

I'm not sure how I'm going to address documentation when we move her to a coastal location. I wonder if anybody was supposed to cancel "documentation" or register the change of ownership. I didn't do it. I was never in contact with the previous owner so I don't know their history. For right now, it doesn't mean anything to me.

If you're not getting a renewal letter every year from the USCG, then you're either off the rolls or they don't have your correct address. And if they haven't had your address for a couple of years, you're off the rolls anyway. You can call the documentation center in Falling Waters WV. Unlike most government agencies, they're very helpful.
If you're no longer documented, you can remove the official number if you like, and you no longer need to display name and home port, but you must state register and show the numbers and decal.

 

[uncledom]

I don't buy it that all mortgaged boats will need documentation. Why is a title and registration not sufficient the same way any house or car is? I would guess that there are plenty of inland boats that are not documented, but financed just the same. Also, I would be surprised if there are any states which don't require registration for INLAND boats, even those that are documented. In New Jersey, a documented coastal boat does not require state registration (as far as I know - I may be wrong), but when you use it inland, it must be registered with the state and state numbers must be displayed even if it is documented (that much I do know). But, I agree, that the rules for each state should be checked-out.

NJ requires registration of all vessels "homed" in the state. That is to say if you live and boat in NJ and you Document your boat with the home port of NJ, you will be required to pay tax, title and registration fees to NJDMV. You will also be required to keep the registration up to date and display the state registration stickers on the hull. I too live in NJ. On larger vessels that can easily make international destinations, the USCG Documentation is there to enforce clear title to the vessel in any country, there by protecting the bank and you. God bless the USA.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

NJ requires registration of all vessels "homed" in the state. That is to say if you live and boat in NJ and you Document your boat with the home port of NJ, you will be required to pay tax, title and registration fees to NJDMV. You will also be required to keep the registration up to date and display the state registration stickers on the hull. I too live in NJ. On larger vessels that can easily make international destinations, the USCG Documentation is there to enforce clear title to the vessel in any country, there by protecting the bank and you. God bless the USA.

Yes, I see that on the state instructions. I think I was confused because our boat had no state sticker and no state numbers on the hull when we purchased her 10 years ago. The boat was on stands for a few years before that, so there is no telling if stickers were removed.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

If you're not getting a renewal letter every year from the USCG, then you're either off the rolls or they don't have your correct address. And if they haven't had your address for a couple of years, you're off the rolls anyway. You can call the documentation center in Falling Waters WV. Unlike most government agencies, they're very helpful.
If you're no longer documented, you can remove the official number if you like, and you no longer need to display name and home port, but you must state register and show the numbers and decal.

Yes, I'm sure we are off the roles. I wanted to find any information they had in the past, but the web page indicated no record. I sometimes wonder what effort will be required to re-document some time in the future. I'm merely state registered for now.

 

[Capt jgw]

Not all banks require documentation for a loan, but many do at least over a certain length or value. I believe that once the loan was secured and boat purchased, you could just let the documentation lapse if you wanted to, but then if you later wanted to sell her, the buyer would have to re document. Could be a deal killer. The decision was easier before they started charging for renewal.

 

[Ron20324]

If you're not getting a renewal letter every year from the USCG,... .

In past years when doc renewal was free, I'd get my new certificate in about a week. I'd have to think they already had it printed out, just waiting for your renewal to come back to them. I mailed mine back on Feb 20th, and my check has not even cleared. I thought they cash it ASAP so they can buy another gross of pencils or whatever they do with $26. I guess I'll call them today while it's snowing again.

 

[Lee Coller]

In past years when doc renewal was free, I'd get my new certificate in about a week. I'd have to think they already had it printed out, just waiting for your renewal to come back to them. I mailed mine back on Feb 20th, and my check has not even cleared. I thought they cash it ASAP so they can buy another gross of pencils or whatever they do with $26. I guess I'll call them today while it's snowing again.

It took them nearly a month to get my new documentation back to me at the end of last year, I sent it in in November, got it back just before Christmas (it took them a long time to deposit my check as well). I can just see it, they'll raise the rates again next year with the argument that processing the payments is adding significant cost.

 

[Ukeluthier]

There can be some real "red tape" disadvantages to documentation that may lead you to forgo it if a bank doesn't require it.

I had a documented 46' cutter that my late wife and I used to live aboard. We were co-owners. When she passed away, I applied to have her name removed from the document so that I could sell the boat. The Coast Guard would not issue a new "free and clear" document -- even though the ship's mortgage had been payed off some years earlier -- because they claimed they'd never received a valid satisfaction of the lien statement from the lender. The bank, on the other hand, claimed they had indeed sent such document and provided me with a copy. The Coast Guard lawyers refused to accept it because they said it was not from the "lenders of record." The bank from whom I'd originally gotten the mortgage had been sold twice to larger banks, and each time the administration of the loan was passed to the new bank, an assignment document was issued making the new bank the agent for the loan. The problem was that the loan had been packaged -- along with 70-some other boat loans -- and sold to three giant insurance companies as an investment instrument by the first bank many years ago. Even though the loan assignment documents -- which I had to track down -- assigned agency for my loan to the new banks, the Coast Guard had the three insurance companies listed in their official record as the lenders of record, and their lawyers would not accept a lien release that was not signed off on by the three giant insurance companies who knew nothing of the matter.

What a red tape nightmare! Every time I exchanged documentation with the Coast Guard, it took them two months to respond, and I could not sell the boat in the meantime. Finally -- after two full years of back and forth -- a lowly but sympathetic clerk at the Coast Guard documentation office diligently tracked down the required signatures, and I was issued a new, clear document.

Whew! I had just about given up hope.

Don't get yourself entangled with bureaucracy if you don't have to.

 

[Ron20324]

There can be some real "red tape" disadvantages to documentation that may lead you to forgo it if a bank doesn't require it.....Don't get yourself entangled with bureaucracy if you don't have to.

That's why I had the dealer do it all when I first bought the boat new. I figured I go to the Islands sometime. Have not done so in 8 years... but maybe.....

 

[Ron20324]

... I can just see it, they'll raise the rates again next year with the argument that processing the payments is adding significant cost.

Reminds me of a "BC" comic strip. A guy is in the middle of nowhere, riding on his stone wheel. Comes to a sign that says, "STOP. Pay Toll". He asks what the toll money is used for. The clerk says, "To pay for the sign".

Chick-a-boom.