Docking stern first

[bshock]

Hi All,

I'm a new "big boat" owner, having graduated from a Catalina 25 to a Beneteau 361. The docking adjustment is greater than I had anticipated.

I would like to dock stern in because the wife and I love being able to step right off onto the dock via our walk-thru transom. The problem is the prevailing winds where I am are from the southwest. The boat in her slip (stern-in) is oriented with the bow to the west, and the stern to the east. The problem arises when, about halfway into my slip, the wind pushes the bow over into the neighbor boat. There is no piling between us. My wife won't drive the boat, so she's responsible for handling the lines. We can get a spring line on our midship cleat, but even staying in reverse the bow blows to starboard into our neighbor.

My idea is to run a dock line from the boat's bow cleat to the boat's stern cleat, outside of the stanchions on the port side. We have rigged a dockline "arm" on the post at the end of our finger dock onto which we would have laid the bow line as we motored out of our slip for our normal sailing adventures. We could have a beefy caribiner clipped on that dock bow line, then as we motor slowly into the slip after our day of sailing, my wife could grab the bow line with a boat hook, snap the caribiner onto the bow-to-stern "cleat" line which we ran along the port side of the boat, and as the boat continued into the slip the caribiner would run along that line keeping tension and preventing the bow from swinging into the neighbor boat.

I have a diagram of what I'm talking about. The wife could grab the bow line where the red star is shown in the diagram from the dock post and snap it on to the cleat line. Then as the boat continues into the slip she could get the spring line on the midship cleat. Then the bow line would (theoretically) stop where the green star is as the boat is in her proper slip position.

Has anyone done anything like this?

 

[TLW]

I don't know the the direction of your approach, etc. so, can only ask if you have considered the fact that at very low speed in reverse the stern probably "walks" to port as with most boats. Because the boat pivots about the keel, the bow swings to starboard. Solving your problem might just be a matter of getting out of gear and completing your docking on momentum. Again, I don't know the other factors, so just a thought.

 

[YVRguy]

Here's an alternative to your idea:

In addition to your bow line, run a long spring line from the bow (one that will reach all the way to the stern). My sense is that you can bring the stern in close to the corner of the dock but that after you get further into the slip the bow blows out. Sooo... Have your wife come all the way aft with the long spring line and when you bring your stern into the dock (middle position on your diagram) have her step off and immediately put a wrap of her line around the dock cleat. At that point hopefully she's strong enough to continue pulling the line in against the wind as the bow comes around and you pull further into the slip.

While you're perfecting this maneuver it probably makes sense to invest in some extra dock fenders for your starboard side. This will make things less stressful for you - and your dock neighbour.

 

[bshock]

Thanks for the comment, TLW. I approach from the south, and generally I'm already in neutral well before I start my turn. If I engage the transmission at all, it's just for a second in reverse to continue steerage way, or a quick burst in forward to slow the boat.

 

[bshock]

Doug, good idea about stepping out onto the dock as the boat approaches, as in the middle boat position. You're right, I can get pretty daggone close to that corner, but the jump would be close to three feet for my wife, so there's some risk of injury there if she were to jump wrong. If it was me, sure no problem, but my wife is a bit more careful and maybe not as fleet of foot (or foolish for that matter) That's why I'm thinking a simple clip of a caribiner would be the safest, most stress-free job for her.

 

[weinie]

I'd suggest simply having your wife hop off with a line secured to the bow and attach it to the first cleat on the dock.
Throw it in reverse and let the prop walk keep the stern to the dock. No need to gun it - idle speed is fine. Then throw wifey the stern line.
you should be able to hug the dock by just keeping the wheel turned towards the dock and shifting between forwards and reverse. In forward gear the rudder prop wash over the rudder will keep the bow pointed to port and the prop walk will keep the stern in when in reverse.

Or you could ask the marina to switch to the other side of the finger. Of course if the wind was coming from the north, then the prop walk would be working against you and you might want to pull in bow first on those days.

 

[kloudie1]

We place the bow lines on the piling on the way out. On returning she stands on stern on winward side and picks up the line from the piling and walks forward. keeping the bow under control. I step off onto the finger and control the boat with the stern pulpit, grab the winward stern line, pitch it aboard, then I step back on and secure the stern. She eases the bow line and lets the bow drift downwind, grabs the lee side bow line, and centers up and secures the bow. I then do that for stern.. You can also stretch a stout line between the stern pole (permanently) and the bow pole so that the boat can "lean" on that instead of hitting the neighbor.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

Here's an alternative to your idea:

In addition to your bow line, run a long spring line from the bow (one that will reach all the way to the stern). My sense is that you can bring the stern in close to the corner of the dock but that after you get further into the slip the bow blows out. Sooo... Have your wife come all the way aft with the long spring line and when you bring your stern into the dock (middle position on your diagram) have her step off and immediately put a wrap of her line around the dock cleat. At that point hopefully she's strong enough to continue pulling the line in against the wind as the bow comes around and you pull further into the slip.

While you're perfecting this maneuver it probably makes sense to invest in some extra dock fenders for your starboard side. This will make things less stressful for you - and your dock neighbour.

No! Bad Plan!

First rule of safe docking is that no one should have to jump off the boat to secure it by trying to pull a 12K+ pound boat over against the wind.

As has been pointed out, you problem is that you are docking at too low of speed in reverse. The prop walk is pivoting you around the keel. You are seeing the same thing when you mention that while tied up in reverse your bow is still heading towards your neighbor's boat.

Here is my opinion:
1) approach from the northwest/north, this sounds counter-intuitive but the prop walk is hurting you in your approach
2) do so at higher speed, RPMs probably around 1500 at first to get the boat moving in reverse and water washing over the rudder (this will negate the prop walk)
3) put the boat into neutral as you approach, that way there is no prop walk
4) use forward throttle to slow once you have entered the threshold of the slip, this will not only slow you but help keep the bow away from your neighbor's boat
5) when done right, your wife can than step off the boat and tie off a line (stern first, see below)
6) if the bow starts to get away from you, then it becomes important to get a stern line on first and foremost. With the stern line on, you can put the boat in forward and the boat will be forced against your dock.

Your system could work, but what happens when you have the same conditions going into a different marina. The key is learning how to really handle your boat in reverse.

Using the above plan, I docked this weekend with a 30 knt cross wind pushing my bow off of the dock. No one had to jump off; calmly stepped off and put on the stern line.

We also have a 3-4 knt current pushing us on or off our dock. You didn't mention what the current might be doing to your boat. That could be a bigger factor than the wind.

I hope this helps.

Good luck,

Jesse

 

[Ross]

You can run a line between the piles on your finger pier and hook that on your way in. Have a line on the outer pile to secure the bow and a line on the dock for the stern. I dock in an almost identical situation except that I have a wooden breakwater on my port side as I back in. The pile near the forward end of the boat shows my bowline.

 

[Tejas]

We have Beneteau First 36.7 and have a similar docking situation except we dock in reverse between two finger docks. We have a MaxProp which provides responsive control in reverse. I have the wheel. My wife steps off onto the windward finger cleats the mid-ships cleat first. When there is little or no wind we drift in, in idle. When the wind is blowing we tend to dock fairly hot using serges to maintain momentum. I bias the bow toward windward and the approach toward the windward finger. Sometimes I abort and retry.

In the spirit of full disclosure if the wind is really blowing, we don't go out -- we could probably get out of the slip, we could probably sail, but I'm not sure we could get back into the slip.

 

[weinie]

One more thing to add...
You can run the bow line THROUGH your boat's bow cleat and lead it aft to a winch.

That way, when your wife attaches the bow line to the dock, you can winch the other end in from the cockpit while keeping the boat in reverse to keep the stern kissing the dock. This way, your wife doesn't have to throw her back out pulling the bow to the dock.

 

[Winkfish]

How about putting a large ring on your piling at the end. As you come in, your wife, at the stern, buts a line already cleated to the bow, through the ring, walks forward, is able to keep tension on the line, then cleats it off when you're all the way in. Once it's secure, you can swap lines as needed. Also, put several fenders on the starboard side of your boat in case your bow does get blown over.

 

[YVRguy]

No! Bad Plan!

First rule of safe docking is that no one should have to jump off the boat to secure it by trying to pull a 12K+ pound boat over against the wind.

JK, you will note in my post that I said STEP off the boat - not jump. That is MY first rule of docking. If, (as he confirmed) she can't safely step off, it's not an option. Second, I suggested that she put a wrap around the rail or cleat immediately, thereby eliminating the possibility that she could be pulled off the dock.

As I read it, he's not comfortable maneuvering the boat in the wind by engine alone and in your scenario his main problem still isn't solved - that being the bow blowing out.

In imperfect conditions, the main goals are A) Step safely onto the dock and B) secure a line to the dock ASAP - preferably a bow line as the captain has more control over the stern using the engine.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

JK, you will note in my post that I said STEP off the boat - not jump. That is MY first rule of docking. If, (as he confirmed) she can't safely step off, it's not an option. Second, I suggested that she put a wrap around the rail or cleat immediately, thereby eliminating the possibility that she could be pulled off the dock.

As I read it, he's not comfortable maneuvering the boat in the wind by engine alone and in your scenario his main problem still isn't solved - that being the bow blowing out.

In imperfect conditions, the main goals are A) Step safely onto the dock and B) secure a line to the dock ASAP - preferably a bow line as the captain has more control over the stern using the engine.

I disagree that the bow line should be first. It should be the stern. With the stern on and the engine idling in forward you can step off and secure the bow. But with bow only on then you can go back to far and hit the dock and your stern might actually get pulled away from the dock.

 

[YVRguy]

I disagree that the bow line should be first. It should be the stern. With the stern on and the engine idling in forward you can step off and secure the bow. But with bow only on then you can go back to far and hit the dock and your stern might actually get pulled away from the dock.

With port prop walk and the bow secured there is only one way for the stern to go.

 

[jdhohmann]

Wow, its amazing how many different opinions there are, my suggestion, as with only one other, is to always maneuver your boat forward or reverse when going, into a dock such as yours or even a mooring ball on the water, running against the wind, that way you are already compensating for what mother nature has to offer you, and your momenteum will continue you into your dock and as you turn your wheel to starboard to bring your stern into its position the natural rythm of youe bow will be to swing into the port side right against your finger wharf, problem solved.
Keep in mind though as it was mentioned that we might need to be a little more aggressive on your throttle!!!! You can always stop the boat REAL quick when you give her a shot forward!!!!!!

 

[BigEasy]

BShock,

I think your idea is a sound one. I would definitely not have the wife stepping off the
boat. One misstep and the wife is in the drink with a 12K pound boat moving around. What would you do then??

Using your idea, she could attach the carabiner onto your fore/aft line outside of the stanchions, then, immediately attach the forward spring line thru the midship chock and onto the midship cleat. When you are far enough into the slip and about to reach the end and have tension on the spring line, turn the wheel all the way clockwise (AWAY from the dock) and power up aggressively in reverse. The entire boat should walk its way up to your finger pier, bow included! keep just enough power in reverse to keep the boat firmly against your finger pier. At that point, the wife can secure the bow line and you can pickup the stern line and attach it OR your wife can safely step off the boat and attach the stern line (the boat will not be moving at this time and will be safely against the pier).

This is a tough manuever with any amount of wind because the bow will be blown to Stbd. as soon as you are powering down, so your carabiner set up should help tremendously. Of course it doesn't help that there is no piling to prevent your bow from hitting the adjacent boat.

I would have no problem with a very agile person stepping off the boat; however, I know that my wife couldn't do it safely. Once she were on the dock, I would also question her ability to get the bow line on a moving boat with the bow moving away from the dock. Again, there is the possibility of over reaching or being pulled overboard trying to "man handle" the boat. I have a friend who had a 34' power boat whose wife was pulled into the water trying to attach a line onto a moving boat. She was OK; however, it scared the daylights out of her.

 

[Ross]

I dock stern first and have for 14 years anyone else?

 

[bshock]

Thanks all, for your comments and suggestions. Some of the ideas presented I had not thought of, and I think some of them have merit. I do think though, that in my situation with my wife's comfort level, that my caribiner idea will be what I try first.

BigEasy, your scenario is exactly what we are aiming for. I think we'll be trying it this coming weekend. Hopefully we meet with success.

 

[Benny17441]

Let me up the anty; how about you doing the docking solo? You would not be able to do it from behind the wheel so you must drop that misconception that one handles the lines while the other remains behind the wheel. Docking has been referred to as a controlled crash because boats have no brakes and at slow docking speeds steering is ineffective. To stay behind the wheel is not the most efficient procedure. Permit me to suggest that you tie a spring line to that first entry pole. As you back in and cross the slip threshold let the boat drift back in neutral and step from behind the wheel and go grab that spring line (the use of a dock pole can help). Take the line and turn it against one of the horns of the midship cleat. By allowing or limiting line slip on the cleat you can make the boat move closer to the dock finger and simultaneously reduce speed. As long as the boat's drift is being guided by the midship cleat the bow will not drift out and even if it did in windy conditions all you would need to do is make the stern contact the dock finger quicker. Once you have drifted as far back as you want all you have to do is lock the line and the boat press against the dock and stops. Nobody is perfect so mistakes will be made from time to time. If grabbing the spring line is missed just step back to the helm, engage the transmission and power out to repeat the manuever. If the drifting speed is to low or the boat stops just go back to the helm and engage reverse. You can then walk back to tend your spring line and even leave the transmission on reverse as the line will stop the boat. Once the boat stops it is just a matter of grabbing and attaching the bow and stern lines. You can do it by yourself but with your wife's help in tending the bow line it will be a cinch. Different conditions require adjustments in entry and speed but the principles are the same. Just practice and remain calm. At slow speeds you will have time to move around. Working the spring line in conjunction with the wheel and throtle really works well but requires an additional pair of hands. Be patient with the Admiral.