I just changed boats this year from an O'Day 25 to a Douglas 32. In addition to the full keel, extra 8000 lbs and left hand prop with an inboard diesel, we have switched from a mooring to a slip at our local marina. To say that we have had some challenges coming and going would be an understatement, as I need to reverse and turn to starboard to leave, and my boat does not want to do that ever. I provide this information to say that I am not an expert, but am cautious when coming and going. Anyway, we have been struggling but getting by - but while I was on the boat today doing some maintenance and upgrades (most of the day) I did witness a powerboat collide with another powerboat on leaving the dock (he actually tried to leave at full power with a spring line still tied), as well as a sailboat collide full speed in reverse with another sailboat returning to the marina. Once the shock wore off, I got to thinking that this must be a fairly common occurance. I have seen lots of high speed approaches with a big thrust of reverse at the last minute, and this seems reckless to me. Do these things happen at other marinas? Why don't people ask for assistance rather than risk damaging their own - and others - property? I am beginning to reconsider the safety of remaining where I am now, given what I've seen over the last few weeks. Maybe a row of fenders over the stern would help?
Docking Problems
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Congrats on the new boat! *bzz
Approaching and docking should be done as slow as possible while just maintaining steerageway. It should be boring. If it's exciting, you're going too fast. The only possible surprise might be an unexpected gust that pushes the bow over. If the marina is full of cowboys, then I would look for somewhere else, even commercial docks where folks know about boats and how to behave and handle them. IMHO
Approaching and docking should be done as slow as possible while just maintaining steerageway. It should be boring. If it's exciting, you're going too fast. The only possible surprise might be an unexpected gust that pushes the bow over. If the marina is full of cowboys, then I would look for somewhere else, even commercial docks where folks know about boats and how to behave and handle them. IMHO
Prop walk problems
The problem you describe is pretty common. The solution I have found is as follows: with the rudder straight, gun the engine in reverse for about 2 seconds, then return to neutral. This gives you steerage in reverse. Flip the rudder to starboard, to get your stern going to starboard. As you start to slow down, repeat the process. By using the prop at high revs for a very short time you minimize prop walk. With a little practice you should be able to get your stern going to starboard, even in a cross wind. As for idiots running into each other, I guess someone broke the rum out early. Get yourself a good loud hand-held air horn.
The problem you describe is pretty common. The solution I have found is as follows: with the rudder straight, gun the engine in reverse for about 2 seconds, then return to neutral. This gives you steerage in reverse. Flip the rudder to starboard, to get your stern going to starboard. As you start to slow down, repeat the process. By using the prop at high revs for a very short time you minimize prop walk. With a little practice you should be able to get your stern going to starboard, even in a cross wind. As for idiots running into each other, I guess someone broke the rum out early. Get yourself a good loud hand-held air horn.
the slower the better
We have a starboard side seawall tie up. The only way to approach is dead slow and nose in (parallel park between 2 other boats.) Keelboats don't want to stop, and a shot of reverse walks the stern to port in our case. We have to watch wind and current (sometimes a 3-4 knot flow). We have had our days where we have had to do a go-around, but so far no collisions with the seawall. We don't ordinarily have shoreside docking help so we have gotten in the habit of leaving dock lines coiled so that we can grab them with a long boathook, and in most conditions elect to get a springline first. Our marina has a few powerboaters who haven't figured out slow approaches yet (one we affectionatly call "crash" in particular), and a few who can't figure out what "No Wake" means.
We have a starboard side seawall tie up. The only way to approach is dead slow and nose in (parallel park between 2 other boats.) Keelboats don't want to stop, and a shot of reverse walks the stern to port in our case. We have to watch wind and current (sometimes a 3-4 knot flow). We have had our days where we have had to do a go-around, but so far no collisions with the seawall. We don't ordinarily have shoreside docking help so we have gotten in the habit of leaving dock lines coiled so that we can grab them with a long boathook, and in most conditions elect to get a springline first. Our marina has a few powerboaters who haven't figured out slow approaches yet (one we affectionatly call "crash" in particular), and a few who can't figure out what "No Wake" means.
Out here in California....
..most of the harbors where I live, Channel Islands, Ventura, and a few others if you are going over 5knotts you will get the Harbor Masters attention really quickly. That said, this weekend we anchored in Santa Barbara. The anchorage area is well defined and I could not believe the number of motor boaters zig zagging between anchored boats doing 30+knotts. Not once did the harbor master come out to see what was going on...or at least to patrol the area. Sooner or later you know something bad is going to happen. It was the fourth of July....maybe its calmer on other days. abe
..most of the harbors where I live, Channel Islands, Ventura, and a few others if you are going over 5knotts you will get the Harbor Masters attention really quickly. That said, this weekend we anchored in Santa Barbara. The anchorage area is well defined and I could not believe the number of motor boaters zig zagging between anchored boats doing 30+knotts. Not once did the harbor master come out to see what was going on...or at least to patrol the area. Sooner or later you know something bad is going to happen. It was the fourth of July....maybe its calmer on other days. abe
Muised, I feel your pain.
Sailboat owners are supposed to like the wind - right?? I hate the wind when docking but, I am getting better. I have to. My biggest issue when docking is the two pilings that I have to squeeze between. My stanchions and my lifes will rub on them from the beam to the stern so, I try to avoid them like the plague. But under wind conditions, I almost always seem to touch them. Ouch.. Yesterday, I decided not backing in and went bow first. This was much better under the wind conditions. I have come to the realization that you will make mistakes and sometimes look like its your first time under windy conditions. Especially with an unexperienced crew. Your crew is your most valuable asset when docking. They need to be trained on how to handle dock lines, who releases, who pulls, etc... My 13 and 15 year old are turning into quite good dockers, it just takes time. Go slow and use the wind to your advantage, not disadvantage. Make a course upwind and let the wind push you into place if possible. Always attach lines on the windward side first and use them to pull you back into position. Good luck and take your time - who says docking is a race.
Sailboat owners are supposed to like the wind - right?? I hate the wind when docking but, I am getting better. I have to. My biggest issue when docking is the two pilings that I have to squeeze between. My stanchions and my lifes will rub on them from the beam to the stern so, I try to avoid them like the plague. But under wind conditions, I almost always seem to touch them. Ouch.. Yesterday, I decided not backing in and went bow first. This was much better under the wind conditions. I have come to the realization that you will make mistakes and sometimes look like its your first time under windy conditions. Especially with an unexperienced crew. Your crew is your most valuable asset when docking. They need to be trained on how to handle dock lines, who releases, who pulls, etc... My 13 and 15 year old are turning into quite good dockers, it just takes time. Go slow and use the wind to your advantage, not disadvantage. Make a course upwind and let the wind push you into place if possible. Always attach lines on the windward side first and use them to pull you back into position. Good luck and take your time - who says docking is a race.
docking
with a thorough understanding of the forces involved, plan your actions accordingly. know which side to let go first. know when and how to use spring lines. know when and how to use the boat's natural motion to your advantage. then practice, a lot.
with a thorough understanding of the forces involved, plan your actions accordingly. know which side to let go first. know when and how to use spring lines. know when and how to use the boat's natural motion to your advantage. then practice, a lot.
Boat size change theory aka
the Cinderella Theory. I was going to have this published posthumously - you know, because of the controversy which will undoubtedly erupt - the implications for creationism vs. evolution, not to mention relativity are obvious. However, I am compelled to share my discovery now in the hope that others will benefit. The theory of boat size change requires that certain competing theories be discredited: 1. A long time ago when I had a boat which I kept in a slip at a marina, I became quite proficient at docking (others may remember this differently). I do not deny that there were some scrapes and crunches along the way, but eventually I experienced every possible permutation of tide, current and wind such that I could (more or less) successfully dock MY boat in MY slip in MY marina. Thus, I subscribed to the experience/practice theory of docking. 2. Unfortunately, there came a time when I attempted to dock my boat in a different marina. Despite my undisputed expertise, this resulted in scraping and crunching. How could this be? - I had employed all my hard earned knowledge and skill; no alcohol had yet been consumed; and yet .... I got a clunky amateur result. Obviously, this led to the still popular theory of ‘boat training’. Under this theory it is not the skipper, but the boat which becomes ‘skilled’ at entering/exiting ITS slip in ITS marina. This skill is, of course, useless and even counter-productive when entering some other slip in some other marina. 3. As the years went by and I scraped and crunched my way into various slips in various marinas, I shared the boat training theory with various people, many of whom became quite receptive after prodigious amounts of alcohol. Still, the majority seemed to think my theory absurd; and this was so regardless of alcohol consumption - hmmmmmmm. Eventually, I realized that when I was day-sailing in/out of MY slip in MY marina, I was rarely out of sight of land. But, when I was sailing to some ‘foreign’ marina, I was frequently out of sight of land. I also observed that a sailboat seems very small when there is no land in sight; and yet, the same sailboat seems uncommonly large when you attempt to dock it in a strange marina. How can this be? - obviously, the boat changes size. In my opinion (confirmed over the course of many years) boats shrink when they go off shore. If they are not returned to their 'home' marina in a timely manner and instead enter a strange marina, they expand to enormous dimensions. Under these circumstances scraping and crunching are necessary in order to return them to their normal size and restore equilibrium in the universe.
the Cinderella Theory. I was going to have this published posthumously - you know, because of the controversy which will undoubtedly erupt - the implications for creationism vs. evolution, not to mention relativity are obvious. However, I am compelled to share my discovery now in the hope that others will benefit. The theory of boat size change requires that certain competing theories be discredited: 1. A long time ago when I had a boat which I kept in a slip at a marina, I became quite proficient at docking (others may remember this differently). I do not deny that there were some scrapes and crunches along the way, but eventually I experienced every possible permutation of tide, current and wind such that I could (more or less) successfully dock MY boat in MY slip in MY marina. Thus, I subscribed to the experience/practice theory of docking. 2. Unfortunately, there came a time when I attempted to dock my boat in a different marina. Despite my undisputed expertise, this resulted in scraping and crunching. How could this be? - I had employed all my hard earned knowledge and skill; no alcohol had yet been consumed; and yet .... I got a clunky amateur result. Obviously, this led to the still popular theory of ‘boat training’. Under this theory it is not the skipper, but the boat which becomes ‘skilled’ at entering/exiting ITS slip in ITS marina. This skill is, of course, useless and even counter-productive when entering some other slip in some other marina. 3. As the years went by and I scraped and crunched my way into various slips in various marinas, I shared the boat training theory with various people, many of whom became quite receptive after prodigious amounts of alcohol. Still, the majority seemed to think my theory absurd; and this was so regardless of alcohol consumption - hmmmmmmm. Eventually, I realized that when I was day-sailing in/out of MY slip in MY marina, I was rarely out of sight of land. But, when I was sailing to some ‘foreign’ marina, I was frequently out of sight of land. I also observed that a sailboat seems very small when there is no land in sight; and yet, the same sailboat seems uncommonly large when you attempt to dock it in a strange marina. How can this be? - obviously, the boat changes size. In my opinion (confirmed over the course of many years) boats shrink when they go off shore. If they are not returned to their 'home' marina in a timely manner and instead enter a strange marina, they expand to enormous dimensions. Under these circumstances scraping and crunching are necessary in order to return them to their normal size and restore equilibrium in the universe.
Thanks, Vern!
I've pretty much given up on docking. But, I am working on the quantum theory of anchoring/dragging. It's kind of hard to get common-experience data though - because so few people want to anchor near to me.
I've pretty much given up on docking. But, I am working on the quantum theory of anchoring/dragging. It's kind of hard to get common-experience data though - because so few people want to anchor near to me.
Obviously the wrong theory
Doug, now that I have prepared this response with a suitable dose of alcohol, I can unequivocally say that your theory is hogwash. I trump that with a better idea, the "marriage theory" of docking. In your home marina your boat and its home dock have built up a chronically mutually negative charge that slightly repels each other. This enables you do carefully slide into your home slip without any over-reaction movements. When you go off shore and seek out a foreign port, the polarity of your boat reverses, and becomes positive. You may be right also in that your boat swells up and becomes larger then normal. Now a powerful magnetic attraction between your positive boat and the negative foreign dock will yank you into the foreign slip at too great a speed, leading to all sorts of bumping and banging. It is only with repeated docking at the foreign port that your boat we re-acquire its naturally negative charge, just like you have at your home port.
Doug, now that I have prepared this response with a suitable dose of alcohol, I can unequivocally say that your theory is hogwash. I trump that with a better idea, the "marriage theory" of docking. In your home marina your boat and its home dock have built up a chronically mutually negative charge that slightly repels each other. This enables you do carefully slide into your home slip without any over-reaction movements. When you go off shore and seek out a foreign port, the polarity of your boat reverses, and becomes positive. You may be right also in that your boat swells up and becomes larger then normal. Now a powerful magnetic attraction between your positive boat and the negative foreign dock will yank you into the foreign slip at too great a speed, leading to all sorts of bumping and banging. It is only with repeated docking at the foreign port that your boat we re-acquire its naturally negative charge, just like you have at your home port.
Both theories are incorrect
My boat docks perfectly every time without exception - I let my wife dock while I stand by with the lines. Jim S/V Java
My boat docks perfectly every time without exception - I let my wife dock while I stand by with the lines. Jim S/V Java
that's silly
No, no, no, no... The boat doesn't change size. That could only happen if the boat were to approach the speed of light. Everybody knows what happens: If the dock is not used to a certain boat, then it shifts its position because it is uncomfortable with a new boat sitting nearby it. Sometimes, even the entire land mass to which the dock is attached moves also.
No, no, no, no... The boat doesn't change size. That could only happen if the boat were to approach the speed of light. Everybody knows what happens: If the dock is not used to a certain boat, then it shifts its position because it is uncomfortable with a new boat sitting nearby it. Sometimes, even the entire land mass to which the dock is attached moves also.
Every Docking an Adventure
I've decided that there are two types of sailors, those that are docking challenged and liars. I fall into the former category. I've also noticed that my docking abilities vary inversely to the number of people on the dock watching me, ie. if there's no one on the dock I back it in like a sports car, on the other hand if there are a bunch of people watching it's like I've never been on a boat before.
I've decided that there are two types of sailors, those that are docking challenged and liars. I fall into the former category. I've also noticed that my docking abilities vary inversely to the number of people on the dock watching me, ie. if there's no one on the dock I back it in like a sports car, on the other hand if there are a bunch of people watching it's like I've never been on a boat before.
I agree Jim!
Best docking plan in existance- my girlfriend drives, while I take a hero-like leap off the boat holding both fore and aft lines. People still look but I must say ever since we began this system docking ahs never went smoother or quicker! Note: we still keep it under 1 knot. In fact when sailing in, we come often across another law of docking: when attempting to sail into port the wind is always coming DIRECTLY from your slip, no matter which way it was blowing from on the way there. The presence of a runing motor shifts the wind 90 degrees.
Best docking plan in existance- my girlfriend drives, while I take a hero-like leap off the boat holding both fore and aft lines. People still look but I must say ever since we began this system docking ahs never went smoother or quicker! Note: we still keep it under 1 knot. In fact when sailing in, we come often across another law of docking: when attempting to sail into port the wind is always coming DIRECTLY from your slip, no matter which way it was blowing from on the way there. The presence of a runing motor shifts the wind 90 degrees.
Propwalk
I too suffer from some propwalk on Sail-La-Vie. I wonder though, in order to reduce the effects of propwalk, is it prefereable to use reverse at slow speed, but keep it in gear? Or is it better to gun the engine for a few seconds and then out of gear work with the rudder? I have found too, that if you're drifting off your intended direction in reverse (to port let's say), you can use a shot of forward (with the rudder over to port in my example) to push the stern the other direction.
I too suffer from some propwalk on Sail-La-Vie. I wonder though, in order to reduce the effects of propwalk, is it prefereable to use reverse at slow speed, but keep it in gear? Or is it better to gun the engine for a few seconds and then out of gear work with the rudder? I have found too, that if you're drifting off your intended direction in reverse (to port let's say), you can use a shot of forward (with the rudder over to port in my example) to push the stern the other direction.
sailboat Design
Sailboats aren't designed for close quarters!!! Especially full keel boats. My keel isn't full but my rudder is skeg mounted and this makes steering more difficult. I have learned to use propwalk to my advantage but it is a weak force that can't fight strong winds or currents. Don't be too proud to use lines!!!! I found that my boat couldn't come out of my slip and turn quickly enough when the wind was blowing from the west. My solution was to have my wife hold onto the bowline and it would pull the bow around nicely until we started turning. Then she would release the line. Until I used the line I'd pull out use reverse and everything to get turned into the wind. Lines can also help you get into your slip. Face it with a lot of windage and low horsepower a single screw a sailboat is not designed for tight quarters!!! When I had an outboard I could change the thrust direction on the outboard to get in and out. But now prop wash and prop walk are the only controls at low/0 speeds. The rudder requires some speed to work and speed is not good in tight quarters!!!! Don't feel bad. Big ships can cross the Pacific but still usually need tugboats to dock....that's an ideal. Use your dinghy like a tug in difficult docking situations!!!
Sailboats aren't designed for close quarters!!! Especially full keel boats. My keel isn't full but my rudder is skeg mounted and this makes steering more difficult. I have learned to use propwalk to my advantage but it is a weak force that can't fight strong winds or currents. Don't be too proud to use lines!!!! I found that my boat couldn't come out of my slip and turn quickly enough when the wind was blowing from the west. My solution was to have my wife hold onto the bowline and it would pull the bow around nicely until we started turning. Then she would release the line. Until I used the line I'd pull out use reverse and everything to get turned into the wind. Lines can also help you get into your slip. Face it with a lot of windage and low horsepower a single screw a sailboat is not designed for tight quarters!!! When I had an outboard I could change the thrust direction on the outboard to get in and out. But now prop wash and prop walk are the only controls at low/0 speeds. The rudder requires some speed to work and speed is not good in tight quarters!!!! Don't feel bad. Big ships can cross the Pacific but still usually need tugboats to dock....that's an ideal. Use your dinghy like a tug in difficult docking situations!!!
Propwalk
What I've found is that using higher RPM's in reverse reduces propwalk. What I do is start backing with higher RPM's and then put it in neutral which cuts out the propwalk completely. With the higher RPM's I'm moving faster (more water over the rudder) so I've actually got more steerage control. BUT it goes back to the old saying don't approach the dock any faster than you're willing to hit it!
What I've found is that using higher RPM's in reverse reduces propwalk. What I do is start backing with higher RPM's and then put it in neutral which cuts out the propwalk completely. With the higher RPM's I'm moving faster (more water over the rudder) so I've actually got more steerage control. BUT it goes back to the old saying don't approach the dock any faster than you're willing to hit it!
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