Docking help needed.

[SamLust]

link to captain Jack Klang:

http://www.captainjacksailing.com/saleitems.html

His primary technique is to loop the spring line around the outer piling as you back past it. Once you understand the process it's not too difficult. You realy need to see his demonstration at one of the shows.

The alternative is different slip/marina.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Captain Jack Klang link & Midships Spring Line

Thanks, Sam, nice to have that "back" in my bookmarks. I guess since he wrote the book there's less material on the website. I remember a lot more info in the olden days that included docking ideas. Guess ya gotta buy the book now.

For those of you with actual docks and cleats, for a great midships spring line idea, try Nautiduck's C250 concept pictures below. He originally posted them on the C25/C250 website. Here's the link: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15645&SearchTerms=dock-a-matic

One other thing, Ed, is that a few folks have mentioned using old halyards. WRONG!!! They don't stretch like docklines need to do. I see altogether too many folks using non-stretch material in the improper application. Spend a few bucks and get what you really need.

In order to save big bucks years ago I "invested" in a complete spool of three strand anchor (stretchy - nylon, not halyard) line. I also bought other long lengths of line. I stopped buying 10, 15 and 25 foot lengths of prespliced dock lines years ago. You do NOT need pre-eye spliced line, you can make your own splices with bowline knots and get the size of the eye splice just as YOU need it. Not buying the eye splices saves a LOT of $.

 

[Ron20324]

Of course there's nothing like sitting on the deck on a nice day doing your own eye splices, eh?

 

[moparv104x4]

I went to 2 of Captain Jack’s seminars this past weekend in Muskegon Mi. He now has a video out showing his docking techniques along with his book on sailing tips. He also told us he is seriously considering retiring from his sailing seminars. He wants to spend more time with his wife on their boat.

 

[sailingdog]

You're much better off putting in proper eyesplices, as bowlines tend to lose about 40-50% of the line's strength, compared to 10% for a good eyesplice. If you don't know how to splice Three-strand laid line, you really need to learn. A ten-year old can learn to do it in an afternoon—it ain't rocket science.

Thanks, Sam, nice to have that "back" in my bookmarks. I guess since he wrote the book there's less material on the website. I remember a lot more info in the olden days that included docking ideas. Guess ya gotta buy the book now.

For those of you with actual docks and cleats, for a great midships spring line idea, try Nautiduck's C250 concept pictures below. He originally posted them on the C25/C250 website. Here's the link: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15645&SearchTerms=dock-a-matic

One other thing, Ed, is that a few folks have mentioned using old halyards. WRONG!!! They don't stretch like docklines need to do. I see altogether too many folks using non-stretch material in the improper application. Spend a few bucks and get what you really need.

In order to save big bucks years ago I "invested" in a complete spool of three strand anchor (stretchy - nylon, not halyard) line. I also bought other long lengths of line. I stopped buying 10, 15 and 25 foot lengths of prespliced dock lines years ago. You do NOT need pre-eye spliced line, you can make your own splices with bowline knots and get the size of the eye splice just as YOU need it. Not buying the eye splices saves a LOT of $.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Eye splices are great to learn

and I'm sure Ed would be more than willing to do so, if he doesn't already. Thing to do first, however, for him, is to figure out what he needs to do in his wonderful "slip" and get the right length lines and loops and set it up first before he finishes the lines and loops. No reason to not use bowlines first until he gets it all set up.

Any suggestions on online "How to Make an Eye Splice" links, before suggesting that Ed buys Brian Toss' great book? Unless he has that already, too.

 

[Ron20324]

Chapman's has it, as do alot of other books on boating knots. Check the library. As Captain Ron said, "any idiot can do it". I did.

 

[Paul F]

Lines etc.

Ed and anyone in the Tampa area. There is another sailing/boating Flea Market this weekend at Gulfport Municipal Flea Market 3/21/09 7AM in Gulfport. Last year they had two Flea markets one at the beach and the boating one at the marina. There is usually a lot of line of various sizes at these markets and worth a trip down to Gulfport. Nautical Flea Market, Gulfport Marina -
March 21, 2009
(City of Gulfport) Nautical Flea Market
Gulfport Marina, (4630 29th Ave. S.),
7 a.m. - 2 p.m.
Contact: 727-893-1071

 

[John T1594]

Don't back in unless you have to!

I can't back my boat either. I always bow in and almost never have any problems with the slip. I have the expert assistance of my wife as a deck hand and she fends off the pilings as we enter or leave the slip (with almost no yelling!). I have found that as long as I get and keep the boat moving, the cross wind has little effect and that effect drops considerable when blocked by the big power boats in adjacent slips. I have my dock lines set at the correct lengths and so we only have to drop the loops over the cleats.

 

[Ken Honeycutt]

http://www.animatedknots.com/usesboating.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg

Here's a real good web site with animated knots. I used it to learn eye splices. Biggest thing is starting the splice correctly. I used masking tape on the ends with numbers to keep the strands in the right order at first.

 

[Auspicious]

Some people can learn from pictures in books, and others can't. People learn in different ways. If you learn by seeing or learn by doing, it's easy to find someone who will show you how. I've taught any number of people how to splice 3-strand for a beer. I've never been able to stretch the lesson out for longer than one beer: it's that easy.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Wow, brain overload!

Thanks guys, great info. And yes, I can splice three-strand and that's a great idea. Friday or Saturday we may test again depending upon the weather. Of course there is that flea market on Saturday in Gulfport. Meanwhile I will continue to try to absorb all the new ideas.

So far I have only used two old halyards and those are between pilings. My docklines are all 5/8" x 25' nylon but the expensive prespliced. My springs are also good docklines.

Yesterday I moved the stern lines to be permanent on the aft pilings. I experimented with springs and think I will continue to try and use those on the windward "side" pilings. Port is good because it is at the end of the finger pier. It is right by the big black and small white fenders in the pic, barely visible. On starboard the post is well forward but worked OK the last time.

So I think the challenge is to get the stern close enough to the aft windward post to pick up the line. Once the forward crewmate gets the spring over the forward post it is too late, the aft line will be unreachable.

My idea is that I will bring the bow close to the windward aft piling so crew can retrieve it and hand it to me. Then as we move forward he snatches the forward piling and I can manhandle the boat to windward with the stern dockline. Sounds easy until you see how this boat gets blown about in this channel.

One more wrinkle. Yesterday I met Pat who has the nice Catalina 36 on the end dock. He is moving the boat south in a month or so. That slip has a floating dock the full length on what would be my starboard side. That would be a four foot climb but maybe I will move. There would be only one cruiser to hit instead of two.

 

[jarvispfox]

Don't Back in

I own a Hunter 460 which I back into my slip, but I do not believe that you should, even though many have suggested you do so. Your slip is very narrow and surrounded by two big stinkpots. To back in you need to be going at least one to two knots in calm weather, and two to three knots in a crosswind. Otherwise your rudder will be usless. Since your problem is in strong crosswinds, I strongly suggest that you go in bow first.

What I would do is to pre-measure a strong port bow spring line with a large loop bowline that I would have your mate drop over the finger pier piling as you are comming in. You also need a good large fender located right at the location where your boat will stop to protect you from the piling. When this spring line draws tight and holds your bow next to the piling, as helmsman, you need to keep a slightly above idle speed on you engine to hold the boat snug against the piling while you use your rudder to hold the stern in the center of the slip. Your mate can now take his/her time to attach all the other dock lines.

Whether you keep that springline after the other lines are attached should be determined by how long it is and how much the tide ranges.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Much appreciated docking help.

The previous post is one example of the excellent ideas that you all have provided. As I reread them though I feel like I need a lesson. Pretty odd I admit having been on the water for most of my 67 years.

What bothers me the most about the slip is the distance from the stern to the aft pilings. It is a full eight feet or more from the cleat to either aft piling when the boat is forward far enough. If you miss a spring or getting the newly secured docklines then the stern will go where the wind wants it to go. Unless, of course, I pin the boat forward with a spring line as suggested. Then there is no way to get back there to pick up a stern line.

So the test will be to see if we can design a fail save method for grabbing the stern lines. There are lots of good ideas previously mentioned to try.

 

[Mike B]

Re: Much appreciated docking help.

Ed, could you get part way in so you could set the port spring line bt still leave your stern out far enough to grab the docklines? Once you have the stern lines on you could have a crew member "slip" the spring line until you're far enough forward to tie up the bow. Also one word of caution when using a spring line. Once you have it attached and tensioned you may find you have to steer the boat to STBD to avoid having your bow pivot into the port side dock.
Mike

 

[Ron20324]

The previous post is one example of the excellent ideas that you all have provided. As I reread them though I feel like I need a lesson. Pretty odd I admit having been on the water for most of my 67 years."

Were you in a boat those 67 years? It is pretty odd, in that you have not even mentioned having boat hooks to grab lines off the pilings or to even keep you centered in the slip. Do you have boat hooks?

Quote>"What bothers me the most about the slip is the distance from the stern to the aft pilings. It is a full eight feet or more from the cleat to either aft piling when the boat is forward far enough.... Then there is no way to get back there to pick up a stern line."

Didn't you pass the stern pilings on the way into the slip? Pick up the stern lines as you come into the slip. Have crew on the beam to grab the stern lines and throw them into the cokpit for you to deal with while they do other lines.

Quote>"So the test will be to see if we can design a fail save method for grabbing the stern lines. There are lots of good ideas previously mentioned to try.

Get the other slip.

 

[Ed Schenck]

I guess Ron summed it up. Case closed. Unless I hole my boat or either one of the cruisers that is.

 

[Marc14857]

Ed

Lot's of good advice but I don't think that anyone advised you to run lines between the forward and aft pilings. That is one set of lines between the starboard pilings and another between the port pilings. This way as you start to back in the lines actually act as a net and help guide the boat back. You can also pull on them as necessary to keep the boat centered in the slip as you head back. Must of the slips here at our Marina incorporate this method.

Another option if you still want to bow in is two tie two lines from the main dock or other location to the pilings in a cross pattern. This way when the bow comes in the lines act like a pair of scissors that catch the bow and keep it centered as you head in.

 

[catsailor]

I don't know if anyone ever lost a boat due to a failed knot or splice in a slip...

but many have been lost to chafe. Yes, I am sure some knots have broken - I am making a point about probabilities. Normally, breakage is not likely, because mooring lines are over sized to allow for wear (if they are not oversize, that is a different thing). One good thing about having permanent mooring lines fixed in the slip is that you can apply chafe gear to ALL of the rough spots (dock edges, pilings, anchors, chocks, rudder casings, stanchion bases, etc.) .

Perhaps the cheapest and most durable way is to get tubular webbing from the rock climbing store (1" for up to 1/2" lines, 2" for 5/8" to 1") and cut pieces as long as you need - purchased gear is often too short, and the tubular webbing is ~ 4x cheaper than pre-made gear. Melt a small hole near one end with a hot nail to thread a cord or wire tie to secure it in place. Unlike hose it does not build heat, and the friction of nylon on nylon is nil. I used this method on my last boat, and the dock line were going strong 15 years latter when I sold it. My neighbor (same model) had lines chafe completely through several times in that time, in spite of using 3/4" line to my 3/8" line.

While you're at it, add webbing to your anchor bridle.