Docking help needed.

Dan Johnson · Mar 15, 2009

Hate to say it, Ed...

but with that narrow slip and short finger pier you may need to learn to park it stern to. Bow into the wind and port propwalk should help you put the stern to port and into the slip while someone takes a long line off the port bow post and snubs the bow from being spun by the wind once you get stern to and start into the slip. Just a thought...

Al - s/v Persephone · Mar 15, 2009

Stern-to?

Ed -

From the look of that slip with its stubby finger it looks like it's meant for stern-in use.

My 05H36 is very good in reverse, given any kind of space to get sternway before having to apply rudder. Perhaps your boat's characteristices are different, but unless I had the wind blowing into that slip and trying to force my bow around to bow-in, I'd try stern-in.

Given any new close-quarter maneuvering situation I very often go for stern-in, as I'm then right up at the "business end" of the boat when steering her into a slip or tight passage. Applying the brakes when coming in fast to deal with cross winds or currents is easier with a burst of forward power than with a burst of reverse power.

(Obviously, if a strong wind is blowing into the slip and blowing my high-windage bow away, I don't fight Mother Nature and go bow in.)

I know you're no novice, so maybe you had contra-indications on backing in.

Hope you enjoy the rest of your cruise.

Fair winds,
Al
s/v Persephone

Don12364 · Mar 15, 2009

I have faced this situation many times.
As the berth is more than long enough for the boat I suggest trying this.
1) Make up two large bowlines on the ends of two warps.
2) Have one on each side and leading to each of the stern cleats but not made up.
3) Also have a line on each bow cleat ready.
Now motor into the berth with your crew on one side deck, and you on the wheel and, as the two outer piles come abreast of the cockpit, each put a bowline over each post and then take up slack on the lines.
Keeping the engine driving ahead at idle - or a bit more if the wind is strong - pay out the warps so that you 'lower' the boat into the berth by easing out on each stern line as necessary. A little rudder will also help to centralise her.
When the boat is far enough forward make up the stern lines, leave her driving gently ahead and make fast the bow lines.
If the piles at the bow are too far away you may need to have pre-prepared each bow line with a bowline and to put the stbd one on its pile by hanging the loop from a boathook, though by easing the port sternline the bow should move towards the stbd pile.

Getting out is a reversal of the former but still with the engine idling ahead whilst the bow lines are taken off. In these circumstances the boat can be pulled towards the stbd bow pile to get that bowline off first. It will not be needed as the wind will keep you on to the staging.
Then pull her back using the stern lines, probably having taken the engine out of gear for this. Walk her back till the piles are abreast the widest part of the boat fending off as you go, lift the lines off and o out in reverse as normal.
In a strong breeze from the stbd side clouting the port side fwd pile is almost inevitable but there is a fender there already.

A little practice on a calm day will help and perhaps purchasing some longer lines so slips rather than bowlines would make the task of adjustment easier.

With practice you can do it bow first or stern first so the staging comes alongside the cockpit.

Also watch how the natives do it!

seadaddler · Mar 15, 2009

Ditto

Boy is it good to here I am not the only one having trouble having a docking
senior moment or some thing when ever going out sailing.
When up in NY it took a few practice runs to dock my new 36 into my 30' slip but than moved to a 40' slip with one finger dock,it took a while to back it in and jump off and tie her up while single handling but I now have same set up as you and have not yet dared trying to single handed docking her yet.
I now have my hands full backing her in with plenty of help,today was no fun with just me and the admiral but she has been my go to girl with our guest helping on the bow when docking and she showed it today for sure.
So far with this new docking setup I have not done any single handling,I am still trying things out when backing her stern in first so we can utilize the walk through transom.
What I have been doing is have separate lines on the out ward poles and have crew on the bow ready to tie off and center the boat in the slip as I back her into our slip,most times I need to play with reverse and forward to get her backing in straight and than as they tie off the bow I usually grab the stern lines on the floating dock.
Did I forget to mention that I am on the only floating dock in Burnt Store,it helps make things better so I leave all lines marked off with tape so crew has no guessing what to do when tieing off the bow and stern,I also leave all lines
on the poles and dock, also have spring lines to center cleats to keep her from banging into dock at stern when we are gone from boat and docks.
I hope you can under stand my setup,I think my floating dock is a little easier than non floating docks,mine are also short for the lent of the boat so getting off and on the boat would be a real pain if not having the stern backed in and so we just can walk off through the transom on to the dock.
Nick

seadaddler · Mar 15, 2009

Photo

Photo is at the dealer in Ct. non floating docks,a night mare with out extra help.
The Admiral uses a boat hook to grab the lines tied off and they stay on the outer poles.
When backing in stern first you need to give good reverse power for good steering and movement straight into slip,takes plenty of practice for stern first,if I can do it any one can.
Nick

Ron20324 · Mar 15, 2009

This will open a can of opinions: Remember, a car steers by the front wheels. A boat steers by the stern- much like a car spinning out on ice. When you turn the boat, initially the stern scoots to the side before the bow starts to come around. I find I can use that scoot to avoid pilings and crabpot floats. My observations are if you back in, once the stern is inside the outter pilings, you have no more control on the bow and it will blow where the wind blows. The same is true when pulling out of the slip. No real steerage until the stern is clear of the pilings. That's why I go bow-in, even though I had to change the bow lifelines to be opening gates. The best you can learn is to make the wind work FOR you. I tell my crew to secure the windward docklines first. .

Mike B · Mar 15, 2009

Ed, first off I wouldn't be too upset. With 15+ winds I don't know anyone who's going to pull in without problems. Your slip looks like the one we had for the last 8 yrs with our 36'er. Due to the short finger pier I always backed in. I'd run past the slip by about 3 or 4 slips, go to reverse, throw it into neutral and coast into the slip. I'd use fwd or reverse to adjust angle of attack or approach speed. I'd do my best to favor the windward side and make sure to get the stern past the center piling since it would hold me in place while my wife could manage the bow lines. While the wife would make sure the bow lines were set I'd take the spring on the finger pier side and attach to a midship cleat. Then used just a little bit of power to draw her back. The spring line would pull her up to the finger. I'd sometimes leave her in reverse while I'd grab the stern lines. I'd use the same process when I'd single hand her. Practice makes perfect but of course I'm still capable, and willing to admit it, of screwing it all up in a dead calm

I also had a keeper on the finger pier. A 10lb weight on one end run through a small block with a loop in the other end for hooking over the stbd side mooring cleat. I'd remove it when I left the boat for the week but while there it does a great job of keeping you biased towards the dock. No more leaps of faith

Ross · Mar 15, 2009

Ed I dock stern to all the time and my slip is oriented in a north -south line. I enter the marina from the west and if I have a west wind I try to stop across my slip and man handle the D*** boat into place because I can't turn 90 degrees north and back in before the bow gets blown down wind. Laying across the end of the slip I pick up the portside dock line and push the boat around until I can drag her back into the slip. My biggest concern is scrapeing someone elses boat but they are all protected by piles. There are times when I wish I could just call a tug to help me dock.
Sometimes when the winds and the gods are in a good mood I can make it look like I know what I am doing.

Steve Dion · Mar 15, 2009

How about another slip!

Ed: Have you thought about lag bolting a 2 x 8 from one piling to the next and then wraping it with carpeting? I would think with those fat ass neighbors of yours it would help break the wind, but I suppose you are getting the wind before you can tuck in.

I would give the 2x8 idea some thought! We have similar problems with wind but we have double finger slips so once you get you nose in, you are fairly safe.

Good luck, I am sure you will have some very innovative ideas from this one.

alexco38 · Mar 16, 2009

A little trick to do stern-in

I learned a little trick from an old salt in the club.

If you go around the pedestal to steer, you'll do much better going stern in. The controls; gear shift, steering wheel etc are more intuitive. Relatively speaking; Forward is forward, reverse is reverse, Left is left and right is right etc. If you have an single throttle control it'll be even better.

Try it, it's pretty easy to handle. Steer like a car. And besides, you can get off the boat easier.

Bad Obsession · Mar 16, 2009

I spend most of the time on my Catalina 30 singlehand. I back my boat in and have some ugly docking experiences and some pretty ones. The key is to make your actions slow but meaningful. I don't have a walk through stern either but I can get to my finger dock pretty easily when I am backed in. Due to the shape of the Catalina 30, I couldn't imagine trying to pull into a slip because I would never be able to get off of the boat.

Another thing you may consider is if you have tide issues, add a short ladder to the end pile on of the finger pier. That usually helps you get on and off of the boat and onto the pier.

Remember: Docking at best is a controlled crash landing.

Ray T · Mar 16, 2009

Re: Docking help much appreciated.

There are three things you might try, one is a spring line from the rear starboard piling to the bow of your boat, this would help keep you off the port piling. A tight line from the finger pier to the aft piling and a padded wrap on the finger pier piling, some people use half a tire nailed around the piling but it tends to leave marks on the hull. I believe there is commercially available padding for pilings and around the front of finger piers.

mpete53 · Mar 16, 2009

Ed
It sounds like you have hard docking situation and dock lines that are to short.

Try it with longer lines and getting a stern line out with the spring line. The stern line when tended may help you keep your stern up into the wind.

Also look for a spot aft of the bow to attach your spring. Once you put a strain on the spring the boat tends to privet around the point of attachment. If you can get a lead that is a little further aft you should get a bit more lift into the wind for the stern from the rudder.

seadaddler · Mar 16, 2009

Look around

Take a walk around and look what others have done to make things easy when docking.
When up in NY things were easy to single hand in and out of the single dock and tie up to,so when I first came to my new Marina here In Florida I took a walk around and tried to finds others ideas with docking.
Some have carpeting around poles for soft protection and other type of padding,some have L shaped hooks to hold the lines on the outer poles for grabbing but some times just fall into the water,I give the crew a boat hook for grabbing the lines,just hanging down into the water can be easier than all tangled up lines on the poles.
When backing in you need to give it some power to get good steering because too slow or idle just doesn't give good steering control in reverse,this part of backing needs to be done in a open area with practice to see what works best for your boat,try backing a few times with out being near the slip just backing up some place and steering it left and right until you get it and than try into the slip.
Don't let docking stress you out,easier said than done just go sailing and have fun.
Nick

abaco01 · Mar 16, 2009

Here are my thoughts, having a lot of experience docking my H-460 in challenging conditions. (My kingdom for a bow thruster!)

I would definitely consider longer docklines if you want to go around the outer posts and return to the boat. An alternative would be to use dedicated lines which stay on the piling when you go out sailing which can be retrieved with a boat hook without requiring you to get close to the piling.

If going in bow first, try setting a temporary spring line from the bow instead of the mid-cleat to get the stern over to the upwind piling . This might give a better angle to power the stern out as far as you need.

I agree with those who suggest backing in, realizing of course that some wind and tide conditions would make it very difficult. When backing in, attack from the downwind side of your slip. Minimize crosswind effect by backing straight into the wind until you're approaching the slip and then turn in. This way the wind won't blow your bow around until the last moment and your momentum is already carrying you into the slip. Make sure you start with enough room to get the speed you need for the rudder to be effective. Be prepared to "bail out" any time it doesn't look good.

Once you're in the slip, hold your position with the engine and let the boat lay against the downwind posts while someone gets a taut stern line on the upwind inner post. Then power forward on that port stern line and with maybe a little rudder, the boat should move left, out to the the forward upwind piling and allow you to get a bow line on. At that point you should have the boat under line control and can set up your starboard lines at your leisure.

Warren Blanchard, SV "Banana Wind", Abaco, Bahamas

Ken Honeycutt · Mar 16, 2009

This reminded me of a setup I saw. I watched a 40' Benny dock in a 20+ wind with 1 crewmember and the helmsman. They had permanently stretched (it was either canvas or nylon) a sling between the piers (I believe it would be pier 3 and 4 in your drawing). They just steered bow first into the slip until the bow came up against the sling - the sling just guided them into the slip as the bow slid along the sling. Don't know if they would allow you to do this in your marina but I always thought that was a neat setup - would take away the anxious gut feeling that I'd hit somebodies boat or crash against the pier.

Docking help needed.

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