Do You Sail with the Tide???

[Stu Jackson]

Please...

chill...And enjoy your sailing, cognizant of the depth and knowledgeable of the strength of the currents, and mindful of your descriptions of the specifics of all of your endeavors.Fair winds, againStuPS You wrote: "You may continue to adhere to your precise usage if you chose, but remember that should you start to use terms of convenience rather than the precise language that you embrace here then you are betraying your own guidelines for proper speech."What the heck does THAT mean?I understand it to say: "Anyone can ignore specific names of anything, and should anyone pretend to call a spade a spade, then they are betraying the ability to be UN precise, and UN mindful of common definitions???"Hey, look, I was simply trying to define TWO words and/or terms from respected, published and accepted sources. Ross, if you don't like what's been written in Chapman's, don't hit on me -- I didn't write the books -- but they ARE there for people to read.Call it what ever you want....PPSJoe wrote: "Okay, so tide is measured vertically and tidal current is measured horizontally. However, water has to move for the tide to go up and down. This makes the vertical measurement (time and height) an important factor to consider even when tidal current, rather than water depth, is the main navigational issue."I believe if you read the sources, that the TIDE comes first from the motion of the sun and moon, and AS A RESULT, currents flow. You're absolutely right about tidal current, but interesting enough, the gravitational pull which makes the water "rise" comes first, in many cases the time of high tide is BEFORE max current. A slight detail, since in our neck of the woods it's only a half to an hours difference. Good point, though, may be different where you live. Thanks again Joe for helping to describe the terms.

 

[Ross]

Stu, I'm cool. I just love to pick on quibblers

You asked :You wrote: "You may continue to adhere to your precise usage if you chose, but remember that should you start to use terms of convenience rather than the precise language that you embrace here then you are betraying your own guidelines for proper speech."What the heck does THAT mean?That just means that you should practice what you preach.The thread asked do we sail with the tide or do we ignore the tide. I don't believe that there was any doubt that with a changing tide there was also some currents to be considered. When you are sailing in deep ocean water the tide slips quietly past your boat with no noticeable effect. It is only when you are in near shore waters, bays, rivers, etc. that the ebb and flow of tidal driven waters becomes a concern.So back to the question that you have not yet answered ; "Do you sail with the tide?"Ross

 

[Stu Jackson]

Yup

thanks, RossFair windsStu

 

[seanshine]

Tide

Give it a rest Stu. Everybody seems to understand the thread except you. BTW, you are not the leader here. heh heh

 

[tom]

I know to watch the tides

Most of my sailing has been lake or the gulf of mexico so it is interesting to hear the effects of tides elsewhere. When I asked the question it was deliberaely open ended. Here on the gulf with just a coupe of feet between high and low tide depth usually isn't a concern for me in that I rarely cut the depth that close. I ty to keep at least 5-6' under my keel. Currents are a bigger concern usually. But a strong north or south wind can effect depth and currents more than the tide especially in shallow Mobile Bay. When I sail up to the Chesapeak in a year or two I'll have to get used to dealing with stronger tide. I doubt that I'll ever get the chance to go to New England or the pacific northwest to experience really strong tidal currents. As far as semantics I usually look for the meaning of a poster. Unusual terms or terms used incorrectly can confuse the meaning of a posting but generally I think I understand what most posters mean. I guess that is why dictionarys are needed to express complex subjects more concisely. But since this is an informal recreational site minimal standards are fine with me. On a boat among a crew ambiquity in terms can have consequences. Most of the time I keep it simple. "pull that rope there" as opposed to "harden the mainsheet". But again while sailing on a nice afternoon in a lake standards can safely be minimal.

 

[Ross]

Tom, When and if you get to the chesapeake

one of the characteristics you will find in the tidal currents is the location of still water and even counterflow and the startling speed of the ebb. I have encountered strong currents only a quarter mile wide where the bay is five miles wide. One day we were becalmed and the boat was making lazy circles in glassy smooth water. Reed's almanac has excellant tide tables, current tables and current charts. I consider it an essential part of my navigation kit.

 

[Clay]

I watch the tide to know current

Thanks Stu Jackson for pointing out that tides go up and down (thought maybe they went in or out from my point of view). Anyway, I don't know of a better way to check to see which way the currents run other then checking the tide.There might be other reasons for check the tide other then to see if you have enough water under your boat.

 

[Ross]

Clay when you have run aground they go

up and down. when you are aground, "down" is bad, "up" is good. When you set your tent on the beach and build a fire "out" is better than "in".

 

[Clay]

Tide ?

To tide or not to tide, tell a preist....

 

[Clay]

Other way around Ross

Running aground when the tide is 'down' is 'good'Running aground when the tide is 'up' is 'bad'

 

[Ross]

Okaaaay, I was thinking about subsequent

movement. In that case movement up is good. Running aground 1 hour after high tide can make for a long wait. ;(

 

[Rick Webb]

Tide Travels In and Out

Just like we speak about it. Just spent the weekend on Padre Island and laying in the sand I could see it; it got closer and further away I did not see it go up and down at all.

 

[Ross]

Perry, maybe you weren't concentrating.

Always seems to me that it just goes away or else comes in and crowds me. ;(

 

[tom]

Step up to boat or down

During spring tides my biggest hint about the tide state is if I step up to board the boat or step down... Normal tides it isn't so obvious. Oysters under water is a good sign that it's high tide. But seroiusly here on the gulf the differencebetween high and lowtide isn't that great. When I lived in South Carolina it was much more noticeable. I think that the range there is more like 5-6 feet. I only sailed off the beach there so it wasn't an issue there except that I had to remember to pull the trailer up high on the beach if I was going out on a rising tide.

 

[Ross]

When I lived in Bangor, Maine on the Penobscot

river the tidal range was about 12 feet. The stairs down to the floating pier were built so that at high tide they functioned more like a ramp but as the tide ebbed they followed the pier down with rollers on the lower end and steel tracks on the pier. by way of some clever design the steps stayed level as the angle or slope of the stairs changed.

 

[Butch]

Dock rising?

Hey Stu,I'm enjoying the banter. So I thought I'd throw some gas on the fire as you have now fallen into the trap of using a "term of convienence"Docks don't rise and fall, piers do. A dock being a place not a thing can't rise and fall.Butch

 

[Ross]

Butch, I was wondering if he may have

been on a floating pier while working on the boat. If so how could he know that the pier went up and down since it would stay in the same place relative to the boat. Oh , and the dock at my marina is a floating pier.

 

[Cathy]

Reed's almanac?

Ross-Tell me more about Reed's almanac. I understand the tides vs. currents, but have been unable to find current tables for much of the Bay (not that I've looked all that hard since I rarely sail on a timetable).