Do This Before You Buy Any New Hunter Sailboat

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Deane

To Dave Kelton

Hi Dave--and thanks for the thoughtful post. I wish that my mind were as devious as yours. However---. Hunter knows who posted my advisory message. They also know that I'm only trying to get the sellers of the boat to do what they are legally obligated to do. As I stated in an earlier post, Hunter is responding to the litigation. I told Eddie of Hunter, I'll be sure to post to all when the warranty repairs are completed. As I also posted earlier, the dealer is another story. The details of that story will surprise even jaded used-car dealers. Thanks again, best wishes, Deane
 
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Steve Cook

Just what do you expect to gain Deanne?

Lets just say that your dealer and Hunter Marine are "all" willing to satisfy your warranty issues and install all the equipment in/on your boat, which I am very sure they are all trying to do. It is starting to seem that you are not willing to let them for what ever reasons you have. In my line of work (custom retail store fixtures)(world wide), I found that there are some people in this world that no matter how hard you try, you just can't please them! Just what do you really expect to gain from your legal actions? Do you expect to change the marine industry? A free boat? Credit back? What? You did not buy a house or a car, you bought a boat and the marine industry is the way it is, not just with Hunter. Sure, I wish boat mfgs. watched over their dealers like the auto industry, but "they" don't and I can't change that and either can you! Let them fix/finish your boat, then go sailing and enjoy yourself and the boat. Life is way too short to cry about little stuff. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Steve... P.S. I could not agree more with what the last two posters wrote!!!
 
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ted

my two cents

first i belive you are doing the right thing deane, steve you made a valid point, hunter does not hold their dealers accountable, should they, yes. i work in the auto industry, we are held to standards, i hope through posts like this hunter will get the message and start pulling dealerships from bad dealers.
 
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Wally Boggus

Hmmm....

Can't wait to here what the problems are. Everyone is starting to speculate a bit including myself. Think we all just need to sit back now and wait for Deane to explain it to us whenever he can, realizing that if he is in the midst of litigation he may be under a gag rule. So in the meantime let's talk about the great boats we have!!! w
 
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Sam Kurtz

I Think He is Full of It

If he really has a legitimate complaint telling us all of the facts even if they are his version of them is going to carry a lot more weight than this secret sniveling here. There are not many here who seem to feel much sympathy for him without putting it out in the open. There are two things I am certain of here, Hunter will go way out of it's way to satisfy Deane even if he is one of those who is unsatisfiable. The other is that without knowing who the Dealer is and where he is located others may find themselves in a similar situation and he is helping nobody and may be besmirching the reputation of excellent dealers just because he does not disclose this may or not be slug. I am sorry if I seem to be coming down on Deane I really want to encourage him to come out into the open and watch even be amazed at how quickly the tide of sympathy changes and how quickly the situation is resolved. Just a further thought (it must be the time of year) if the biggest problem in your life is that you are unhappy with the way your purchase of the expensive sailboat you were able to buy has gone. Sit back and count your blessings.
 
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hp

OK

Deane stated he will post the entire story upon resolution. Until then, he wants to remain silent. His privilege. There is nothing in the original post which is not, at worst, common sense, which we all tend to let slip. As much as I hate to say it, when making such a significant purchase, a lawyer probably should be involved. I know of an idividual who got caught up in a dealer going out of business and his money and boat was tied up in litigation for over a year. That was 15 years ago so times don't change as much as we like to think. Yes it is nice to think a manufacturer should be held accountable for its dealers but ther is limit as to how far even they can go other than pulling the franchise. This of course can lead to a whole new set of legal battles. From the tenor of some of the responses one would think that people have been personally been insulted. Lighten up. PAX
 
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David Dunagan

Thank you, PAX

That was a surprisingly nice reply. Alot of people seem upset that all the details are not out or just that someone would actually say they had a problem with Hunter or a Hunter dealer. Almost as if it were a personal affront to them. As I stated earlier, I am in a similar situation and I can certainly understand Deane not providing all the details if it's potentially under litigation. My lawyer has said the same thing. Warning people on how to buy a boat is one thing. Airing alot of dirty laundry (which was not done, in this case) is a different animal. Now, that said: There's a difference between a manufacturer standing behind their dealers, and them standing "behind" their dealers. I feel the latter is what Hunter has done. Waiting for the customer to get so fed up with the dealer that they are A) Not going to buy another Hunter; and B) Feel they need a lawyer, is not the best business marketing decision. I, too, tried to work with my dealer for several months before contacting Hunter. When they just bankshot all my issues back to the dealer and the dealer talked..but did little, it sent me to the state that I assume Deane is in. It's frustrating and not right. But to be fair, once I did get to this state, Hunter became very responsive. I've had numerous conversations with Greg Emerson over the past few days and I have been more than happy with his help. If this help had come back at the end of October or beginning of November, the wound would not be so deep. To all you Hunter owners out there: when someone brings up a complaint about their Hunter boat, Hunter Marine, or a dealer, please don't take it as a personal attack. All Hunters are not the same and the dealers are certainly different. Understand that when you spend more on a boat than the cost of most people's homes, you do expect things to be complete and right. In all I think Hunter does make a very good boat. What is showing as a weakness is the dealer channel and the QA through that channel. Anyway. Amen and pass the plate. dd
 
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Richard Clary

Dealer revealed

My name is Richard Clary with La Vida Starships in Lewisville, Texas. David Dunagan bought his Hunter 380 from my dealership. We are currently addressing every issue that David has on his 380, and I am sure that you will be hearing back from him with updated positive progress reports.
 
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Ron

Does anyone??

Does anyone ever go out and look at what they're buying before they sign the papers??? I bought my boat on the used market and had a survey and a sea trial before I agreed to anything. There was some things wrong, but no surprises at the closing. I don't understand how evryone gets screwed when they buy something??? You go "LOOK" at it and if it's not right you say, "Call me when it's fixed and you're ready to do business!" Confused Ron??
 
Jul 1, 1998
3,062
Hunter Legend 35 Poulsbo/Semiahmoo WA
That's a Gutsy Post Richard!

Just got home and noticed how the list of replies has increased. Not going to read them all, at least not now, but I liked your (Richard's) reply. I'm kinda in the middle here because it's been 12 years since we bought our boat and things were not all that smooth. For example, one of the punch list items, for 8 years we had water leaks from the skylights and ports! When my caulking repairs would fail (tried every sealent under the sun, rebeded the skylights and ports numerous times) my fix was to cover the coach roof with a blue plastic tarp until it quit raining (we live in the Northwest). The boat we bought was the last one the salesman/sales manager sold before setting out on his own and a few years later the dealership changed hands. We paid the going price based on talking to other customers and not a low ball price. In fact, we didn't even talk him down in his price - we paid what he asked! I fixed all the leaks myself about three years ago, with the help of the Dow Corning factory rep, and the boat hasn't leaked since.(!!!) The good part about all this is that I feel like an expert in joint designs that require sealants and I can fix any sealant leak on our boat now. We really like our boat - a Legend 35 '88. It's very pratical, nicely laid out , and sails fast even though the roach isn't as large as on the new boats. We bought it as a space holder while we looked for the one we wanted but we're haveing a hard time finding something we like better. We still remember the buying experience but we try not to and we definitely don't dwell on it. The customer needs to realize that these boats are not production line products like cars or other high volume manufactured items and consequently there are always some bugs to work out. Some of these are not readily apparent and some can be very difficult to identify. It takes time and goes with the turf for this kind of product. I really hope that things will eventually work out well, and I'm shure they will. John Nantz, S/V "Servus"
 
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Been There

Buying new is different, Ron

I've never heard of anyone calling an independent mechanic to check out a new car. Surveys of new boats are rare. Perhaps they shouldn't be. New boats typically come off the factory floor with lots of mistakes. There was a story on the CW BB, some time ago, from a fellow whose new boat came with a clogged vent to the holding tank. He complained to the dealer that the toilet pump had too much resistance. They assured him everything was fine. He proceeded to use the boat, until one summer day, the holding tank exploded. All over the main cabin. This boat was from one of the upscale builders. I've read of new boats with line clutches installed backwards, with problems in their electrics, and with lots of other manufacturing boo boos. Few boat builders have refined their QA process as much as the auto builders. Hunter relies a lot on its dealers to make things right. Fortunately, their dealer network has a good reputation for supporting the customer. I'm not surprised to see Richard's post. A new boat buyer, who is not familiar with the lore in this area, might become a bit testy when seeing the problems on his new boat. I guess that's why the dealers get paid the big bucks.
 
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Dave Blackledge

My view.

I fell in love with Hunter sailboats in the mid-80's but didn't get around to buying one till '98 (Hunter 260). My "satellite" dealership closed up shortly after delivery while punchlist items still needed attention. The "home" dealership was in another state and just couldn't quite deliver, though they seemed to try. I contacted Hunter and they were terrific (especially Greg). Hunter's clear concern for customer service kept me in the family. I recently traded in my beloved 260 for a new 340 (to be delivered in early February). I've looked at most other boats, but just love Hunters. The dealer I'm using now has a great reputation and has been very accomodating (Norton Yachts). I've been stationed in Kuwait for the last year (but will be back home next month, just in time for my new boat!). This has made ordering a new boat, deciding on options, and other communication between myself and the dealer a much more difficult process. Through it all, the dealer has been extremely helpful, responsive, and understanding. I'm confident this attitude by both the dealer and Hunter's commitment to service will ensure we weather whatever imperfections arise in the delivery process. I feel that keeping as calm and polite as possible when dealing with issues keeps everyone in a productive and problem-solving mode. Merry Christmas and Happy Sailing! Dave
 
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Eric Lorgus

Actual litigation or only the threat of it?

Deane, Well, you've started quite a firestorm here. What isn't clear to me is whether you have commenced litigation against Hunter or have merely threatened to do so. If you've filed a lawsuit, you should give us the citation, as in Roe v. Wade along with the docket number and the court where it was filed. The pleadings of the case, which are public documents, will obviously speak for themselves. But until the case is decided, none of us can presume to know who is in the right. The mere filing of a lawsuit carries with it no presumption of guilt or liabilty on the part of the defendant. If a lawsuit has not been filed, then that should be immediately clarified. The original post refers to "litigation in which we are presently involved", but a later one just mentions the "threat" of litigation. As for your three points of advice, the first one is mostly common sense. I don't understand the importance of having every item on the "FRONT" of the bill of sale, but obviously, every item should be listed. Your second point about getting a written confirmation from Hunter seems absurd. You imply in your statement that if you don't do this, then Hunter may not honor their warranty. No reputable manufacturer would ever capriciously ignore a warranty claim. On the other hand, a manufacturer may decline a warranty claim if the problem isn't covered by the warranty, or if it was caused by someone other than the manufacturer. Your third point, "Do not accept any promise or statement from your Hunter dealer that is not listed on the original bill of sale" is good advice. Most written agreements have language that clearly states that it is the sole agreement between the parties, and that any verbal agreements or representations aren't enforceable unless made in writing and accepted by all parties to the agreement. Lastly, speaking as a business executive, I'll warn you that your original post comes close to defamation. It may have been written in frustration, or offered sincerely to warn your fellow sailors away from the shoals where you have foundered, but the way it was written ("Do this before you buy any new Hunter sailboat") comes across as making it sound like Hunter and/or your unidentified dealer were dishonest. There is something known as defamation per se, which is a form of defamation for which no damages need be proven. The last thing you want to do in resolving a dispute is to give the other party their own cause of action against you. Deane, I hope you get your problems resolved to your satisfaction. And when they are, I hope you'll come back here and clear up the great mystery of what happened. I have to agree with some of the others here who feel exasperated at the lack of specifics. Eric Lorgus, President Great Valley Industries, Inc. Exton, PA
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Regardless

Being in business for myself, I can see both sides of this posting. On one side the buyer thinks that he is the 'only' customer that the seller has. He expects the seller to drop everything and tend to his problem. He may have no concept if the seller has the parts and/or materials and authorization to fix the problem. On the other side of the issue the seller has other customers (some of which may be in the same 'boat') that are also having problems that also need to be tended to in a short period of time. You only have so many resources to attack these problems with. During this time of the year the seller has probably gotten rid of their seasonal crew so personel is down to a minimum. Now the buyer starts threatening with litigation and the seller now starts thinking about getting through this problem without paying attorney fees which will cost more that the correction of these problems. The buyer thinks that he may motivated the seller with these threats (and he probably does). Obviously everyone is going to pay if ANY legal action happens. The attorneys are the only ones that are really going to win. But once you have a buyer that is convinced that he/she has been scorn there is probably no way to stop this type of action. My suggestion to ANYONE that gets in one of these situations is speak with the seller and see what type of time frame the problems can be resolved. Be reasonable and try to resolve these problems by going through the proper channels. In the long run it may take a little longer but you will be happier in the long run. Have a Happy and Safe NEW YEAR to ALL.
 
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Deane

To Steve, Eric, And Dave

Merry Chrismas to all--and thanks for your interest. Hunter has said that they will do the warranty repairs. I will deliver the boat to them in Alachua when that becomes possible. The dealer, at present, may no longer be involved. The dealer promised for over six months the furnish certain purchased items--on about a twice a month basis. I have this in writing, but details on the BACK of the original bill of sale may make this writing unusable in court. The dealer has used Hunter as an excuse for not doing the warranty repairs, saying that Hunter had not supplied the needed materials (also in writing). To date, we have not been able to sail the boat. To answer your question, Eric: Court action has not started. My lawyer is attempting to correct the problems amicably. His efforts seem to be moving things towards resolution. Best wishes to all Cordially, Deane
 
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