Do I "need" 1/2" rudder gudgeons?

[Gene Neill]

I'm planning to upgrade to a Ruddercraft rudder in the very near future, so it's time to decide whether I should order it in 3/8", or 1/2".

I think Daydream (an '88 model) may have been the very last C22 to roll off the assembly line with 3/8" gudgeons. CD says 1/2" became standard on C22's with rudders in 1987. So, naturally, I have gudgeon envy. And now would be a good time to upgrade if I ever plan to. But at the same time, I don't want to cut any more holes in my boat if I don't have to.

Has anyone ever heard of a failure in 3/8" gudgeons (or pintles)??

 

[justsomeguy]

One wonders why Catalina felt the need to up-size their gudgeons in the first place, huh?
Probably either economics or safety. Is your new Ruddercraft heavier than the original?
The phrase "If it's worth doing, overdo it" could come into play here. I say go for it.

 

[CaptDon01]

Gene.....The racers like the 3/8 pintals because of weight, and when they install the block under the top gudgeon, there is enough "slop" for the rudder not to bind. I believe the factory went to 1/2" simply for economic reasons. One size fits more boats, less inventory to keep on hand, but purely speculation on my part.
I've installed the heavy duty gudgeons on my C-22, but actually, they are from the C-250. They have a nylon, or some type of plastic bushing, and they eliminate any play in the rudder. The tiller really feels nice and tight, and secure. Plus down the road if you purchase the Rudder-Craft kick-up rudder, they are heavier, so a stronger gudgeon can't hurt. I keep the rudder on the boat all the time now and have the optional mast crutch that fits on the Rudder-Craft kick-up rudder, so with the additional weight of the mast, the extra strength helps. I have several extra sets of bushings, but after probably 5 years of use, I've never lost one, or had one fail.
I have seen 3/8" pintals fail a couple times at the C-22 Nationals I've attended. But don't forget, the racers stress the boats, and the factory rudders, especially the kick-up versions, steer like a barn door.
The attached photo shows my fixed rudder on the transom and you can see the heavy duty gudgeon with the plastic bearing.

Don

 

[CloudDiver]

Do the 3/8 Gudgeons fail? Yes, when I removed them from my 82 I noticed the tack welds were broken.

 

[Gene Neill]

Looks like I have my answer. It was a silly question, now that I think about it.

 

[RJD]

I just ordered a Ruddercraft kick-up rudder too. At the end of last season, I found the casting for the bottom pintal cracked and broken (see pics). I talked to Catalina and they informed me they no longer make the casting for the Catalina 22, but the thicker Catalina 25 casting would work - for $500. So a new kick up rudder for a few hundred bucks more was a no brainer, especially since my original 1984 rudder was looking its age. I went with the original 3/8" pintals though. Hmmmm...

 

[justsomeguy]

the thicker Catalina 25 casting would work - for $500.

Ouch.

 

[CaptDon01]

Ouch.

The fiberglass rudder blade for the factory kick-up rudder is $600. with a 8 + week wait.

Don

 

[justsomeguy]

The fiberglass rudder blade for the factory kick-up rudder is $600. with a 8 + week wait.

Don

I know about the rudder's insane price, but I was reacting to a couple pieces of stainless.
"Marine" prices.

 

[CaptDon01]

I know about the rudder's insane price, but I was reacting to a couple pieces of stainless.
"Marine" prices.

It maybe wouldn't be so bad if it was stainless steel, even more absurd for aluminum. If anyone is interested, there is a used Rudder-Craft kick-up rudder currently on eBay. It wasn't off a C-22, and not sure how it would work. Pintles are bolted on, so that should be able to be adjusted to a C-22 possibly. Shipping could be expensive.
Hey "justsomeguy", have you joined in on the Sea of Cortez cruise the sailors in Tucson go on?

Don

 

[justsomeguy]

Hey "justsomeguy", have you joined in on the Sea of Cortez cruise the sailors in Tucson go on?

No.

 

[hawk232]

I converted my kick up ruddercraft from a different boat to fit mine. with mild fabrication skills its a piece of cake.

also, the ruddercraft kick up rudder is seriously close to half the weight of the factory kick up rudder, the steering stresses are MUCH less... I would be VERY surprised to see a 3/8" fail on a ruddercraft...

 

[Gene Neill]

For anyone who has replaced (or even just rebedded) the gudgeons on a C22 ... did you have to install two inspection ports to access the nuts, or just one? And of what size?

 

[CaptDon01]

Gene,

The rudder gudgeons screw into a piece of ~1/4" brass stock. The factory does a half-ass job of slopping some resin to hold it in place. Sometimes all you have to do is unscrew the machine screws to remove the gudgeons. Take it easy replacing the screws so you don't push the brass stock off. It's worth a try. BUT! no big deal, I have installed access ports, just don't get the cheap West Marine brand ones. Here is a photo of access ports I installed in a 1996 MK-II for access to the rudder gudgeons, and the bolts for the motor mount inside the gas locker. The better access ports are shiny smooth plastic made with UV resistant plastic. They are stronger, and the port cover screws in place for a nice water tight fit.

Here are a couple photos of the project.

Don

 

[bushav]

I installed a reinforcing plate today behind the motor mount on my '88 new design. It was a tight fit but I accessed them by crawling back through the interior. I don't think I could have reached the gudgeons.

Lane

 

[Gene Neill]

The rudder gudgeons screw into a piece of ~1/4" brass stock. The factory does a half-ass job of slopping some resin to hold it in place. Sometimes all you have to do is unscrew the machine screws to remove the gudgeons.

AH HAH, thank you for that info! That's certainly good to know BEFORE I go installing ports I may not need!

Catalina did the exact same thing at the aft ends of the bow pulpit. There are no nuts/washers, just a piece of stainless stock that the bolts go through.

 

[RJD]

Reference the broken pintal casting a few posts above, the new toy arrived today. Glad I went with a whole new rudder instead of just ordering a new rudder casting. Will take a closer look at my gudgeons though.

 

[Jackdaw]

The racers like the 3/8 pintals because of weight,

;^)
The loose change in their pockets probably weights more then the difference between the two sizes.

 

[CaptDon01]

RDJ.....To make a slick installation on the Rudder-Craft kick-up rudder a set of the heavy duty tiller straps from Catalina Direct works GREAT. Unlike the factory rudder, which uses a little nub to hold the tiller up, the kick-up rudder has two little tabs on the side. They won't touch anything on the tiller, but, with the heavy duty straps, they will rest on these tabs and hold the tiller up nicely, just like the factory rudder. I did have to install some thin fiberglass scraps so the tiller would be easy to remove. You can also see where I relocated the mounting hole. This way the same tiller can be used on my fixed blade rudder and my kick-up rudder.

You're going to LOVE the difference the Rudder-Craft rudder will make to the boat!

Don

 

[RJD]

Thanks Capt Don. I'll check it out.