Do Boating Safety Courses Really Produce Safe Boating?

[jwing]

As far as a government money grab, boaters' license fees are less than driver's license fees. Are driver's licenses just a money grab?
What if a person doesn't drive, but wants to vote? In many states, a state-issued identification is required. Again, that costs more than the boater's license. Is that simply a money grab from people too old, too poor, or physically unable to drive?

 

[jwing]

As far as the old whine about crossing state lines on a boat: don't you think that law enforcement officers asked that question before the laws were passed? Of course they did, and there's an answer for anybody willing to make a 10-second internet search.

In my state:
Boat operators from outside Alabama can sail their boat on Alabama waters for a period of 45 days without an Alabama boating license. For more than 45 days, they must either use their out-of-state boating license or apply for an Alabama Non-Resident Vessel Operator's License.
So simple, even Alabamans can understand it.

 

[NotCook]

...Seems to me it can be boiled down to: 1) Don't fall in.; 2) Don't hit anything

I don't think it is a question of what "I" could learn, or you either for that matter. We are experienced boaters and have probably already availed ourselves of considerable training opportunity, plus years of experience in the water. I would venture such requirements are intended to set at least a minimum level of knowledge, particularly for new boaters. Further, I'd argue that the two fundamentals you stated (quoted above) are the obvious outcome. It is *how* you manage to avoid those two outcomes that may not be intuitive to a new boater. An obvious example is what do you do when converging head-on with another vessel. I want them to know the right answer!

 

[Curious Sailor]

Good reply Centerline!

 

[Roland5048]

I think we are all on the same page, here. I agree that education and not licensing is the key to competent seamanship. However, how can you legislate education except under the guise of licensing. At least with licensing, one has to sit through a class and hopefully learn something they didn't know. Those who are going to continue to educate themselves will and those who won't, won't. This is true in all facets of life. How does one get other's to see that? 'Tis a conundrum.

 

[Kings Gambit]

In my opinion, the below are examples of "safety questions." Asking folks to tell how frequently one needs to ring a bell while at anchor in fog on a vessel of certain length is not a safety question, but is an education question. One could make this basic question more challenging to safety understanding by changing the premise; such as removing the chart plotter (or/and I-pad apps) or the VHF (i.e., dead batteries when attempting to use), etc.

1) You’re the operator of an open boat (vessel) less than 20 ft LOA returning at sunset to harbor as dense fog descends when you're still a mile out, limiting your visibility to only a few feet. Conditions are moderate with 1-2 ft wind chop; the air temperature is 64 deg F. You have no radar, no radar reflector, no fog hailing equipment, and no electronic vessel identification aboard; but you do have a VHF radio, GPS w/chart plotter, and a depth finder. What is the greatest risk to the safe return of your vessel and crew?
a) Running aground
b) Hitting an object or structure
c) Suffering from hypothermia
d) Being hit by another vessel
e) Finding and navigating the harbor entrance
f) none are important risks

2) Given your answer above, what would be your safest immediate course of action?
a) Turn on nav lights; then proceed on to harbor on instruments with some extra caution
b) Radio the Harbor Master and request escort to harbor
c) Radio Vessel Assist for a tow into harbor
d) Anchor the vessel, if possible, and issue a Pan-Pan
e) Issue a Pan-Pan and then continue to harbor w/ nav lights on
f) Radio the USCG and request rescue

 

[Kermit]

g) When in danger when in doubt, run in circles scream and shout.

I'm in favor of boater education. I've taken two different courses and passed them both with flying colors. But I still don't feel like I know it all. And I *always* assume the other guy knows none of the rules.

 

[justsomeguy]

a) Running aground
b) Hitting an object or structure
c) Suffering from hypothermia
d) Being hit by another vessel
e) Finding and navigating the harbor entrance
f) none are important risks

2) Given your answer above, what would be your safest immediate course of action?
a) Turn on nav lights; then proceed on to harbor on instruments with some extra caution
b) Radio the Harbor Master and request escort to harbor
c) Radio Vessel Assist for a tow into harbor
d) Anchor the vessel, if possible, and issue a Pan-Pan
e) Issue a Pan-Pan and then continue to harbor w/ nav lights on
f) Radio the USCG and request rescue

"D", then "A", quite noisily.

 

[uncledom]

g) When in danger when in doubt, run in circles scream and shout.

I'm in favor of boater education. I've taken two different courses and passed them both with flying colors. But I still don't feel like I know it all. And I *always* assume the other guy knows none of the rules.

Kermie I too have low expectations and therfore am occasionally pleasantly surprised.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Kermie I too have low expectations and therfore am occasionally pleasantly surprised.

So, there it is. Supporting legislative requirements for "boating safety education" w/o much confidence in its ability to produce more safety in boating!! More "feel good" hoop-jumping for all of the folks entering boating in the future, as if there weren't enough impediments already.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Boating safety courses do as much to create safe boat operators as driver ed courses do to create safe drivers: Not as much they should, but better than nothing.

 

[northptsailor]

When I got my drivers license as a teen, they gave me a rules of the road manual, and made an appointment for the written test. When I got my pilots license, I studied a book and took the written part of the exam. And if I wanted to get a six-pack license, I could study and take the C.G. test. If a government body wants to take the time to produce a test that addresses the knowledge that every boater should know, then fine do it. If you want to take the test without a class due to experience, just take the test. I am sure manuals and classes would come about for those who needed the preparation. A while ago a 34 foot cabin cruiser capsized in the water off Oyster Bay N.Y. and three young children died. The expected knee-jerk political response was to ram through a required course/license for all boaters. The people who pushed this through didn't bother to figure out what they wanted people to learn to prevent tragedies like this, they just identified a number of 6 hour courses like Power s
Squadron offers that you could take to get your boating license. Luckily the county ran into a jurisdictional problem with the state, and the license for adults was dropped. I wonder if the first lesson would have been - Don't put 27 people in a 34 foot boat. Lesson two could be don't get wasted and drive a 700 hp speedboat on the Great South bay at night. We lost a few people due to that kind of activity also!

 

[Kings Gambit]

Boating safety courses do as much to create safe boat operators as driver ed courses do to create safe drivers: Not as much they should, but better than nothing.

There's no evidence, at least none that's been publicized widely enough to make me aware of it, that either one of those canned programs make safer operators. For drivers just look at insurance rates for drivers under 25 ($$$) versus over. If driver ed was doing much of anything there should be no difference in rates. Maturity and experience is what makes safer drivers. (Although DE drivers might be getting rate reduction even if under 25 which would testify to some effectiveness in DE in the eyes of the insurance companies.) For recreational vessels, the only way to even guess at that would be to compare before licensing and after licensing accident rates among registered boaters to see if there is a statistically significant decrease in accidents in the "after" group. And even if there was not, the BS proponents would likely claim the test too weak to detect the difference that must, in fact, be there, etc. Never mind that one may be regarded as a "safe boater" having NEVER even been on one, by virtue of passing an MC test on some rules!! It's a faith thing; the regs are here to stay regardless of the outcome of any kind of evaluation, whether or not they are truly effective. Eventually, however, the insurance companies might get some read on that too.

 

[Gunni]

Well, I know when mandatory boater safety courses were instituted all the jet ski concession vendors closed up shop and we could once again enjoy a day on the waterfront. The wake jumpers disappeared too. So I guess they learned something too.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Well, I know when mandatory boater safety courses were instituted all the jet ski concession vendors closed up shop and we could once again enjoy a day on the waterfront. The wake jumpers disappeared too. So I guess they learned something too.

Well, if there are none around, then I suppose they won't be causing accidents!!

 

[Kermit]

So, there it is. Supporting legislative requirements for "boating safety education" w/o much confidence in its ability to produce more safety in boating!! More "feel good" hoop-jumping for all of the folks entering boating in the future, as if there weren't enough impediments already.

At least I would know they had been exposed to the rules. I know the rules for giving way and still make mistakes. But dangit it's not out of ignorance. It's from being human. And I review what I did wrong so maybe I'll do better next time. I would never use the excuse that he was smaller and slower and shoulda gotten the hell out of the way. Sorry. Rant over.

 

[Kings Gambit]

At least I would know they had been exposed to the rules.

Brings to mind the proverb on horse hydration.

 

[Stu Jackson]

My basic premise is; A serious boater needs no invitation to becoming educated in the nautical arts.

Good point. For a drivers license, one needs to do a road test.

Nowhere in any country, state or even federal discussions has there EVER been any mention of a "road" test.

Like getting into and out of a slip. Has anyone here ever seen a post that goes something like this?:

"I have trouble getting into and out of my slip. The wind blows me one way the current the other. HELP!!!"

There are also countless COLREGS discussions, the best of which are on cruisersforum with Dockhead leading the way in understanding the fundamentals and details.

Crossing situations are the least of the details.

Without a "road" test, all the paperwork is just BS.

And I doubt any legislature will ever go that far.

 

[uncledom]

Governmental logic goes like this: We'll stop 7/11 from selling a 32 oz. sugar drink and never say boo to selling cigarettes. Go figure.

 

[Roland5048]

Having never owned or fired a weapon, one can pay for a four hour class, pass a test and walk out with a CWP.
Having never driven a vehicle, one can take a DE course, pass a test and get behind the wheel of a two ton vehicle.
Having never driven a boat, one can take an online class, pass a test and get behind the helm of a boat with any number of
hp. Or, worse yet, have someone vouch for your sea time, take a course, pass it, obtain a USCG license and have people pay you to take them out.
At least it's a bit tougher in the aviation world, but a license none the less and there are restrictions.
In other fields such as teaching, lawyering, doctoring, etc., there are continuing ed hours you must have every so many years to renew a license. But a license still does not make one a better teacher, lawyer, doctor, sailor, pilot, driver, shooter, etc. Knowledge through education and experience does. A license just gives one the illusion of competency. How do we get this through people's and the government's collective heads?